howie333

Fellow from 2 wheel obsesion has an in depth video on You tube that explanes fork and shock upgrade. He uses Stoltec Moto which sells the tools and parts needed to revalve and spring exististing forks. The rears he uses Penske rear shockw/ cartridge. I'm not sure if worth the extra money over a K-tech shock of same type.  He uses the MT09 for example that has compression damping forks. Would I notice any improvement of added front and rear compresion damping w/ the fJ-09 for street riding ?  

thnx...

A few questions: 

should I stay w/ the stock Cst rating oil with upgraded forks ?

Will High flow valves, springs, and new shim kit come with new fork cartridges, and is this what I should be installing ?

For rear shock; should I use the Razor R light or go with the Razor R w/ compression damping (cartridge)type ?

W/ 165lb. rider, riding gear and tank and side bags which spring rate .85nmor .9nm is recomended for proper spring rate and how and why do you figure or calculate this rate ?

Someone recomended a .9nm spring set, Racetech or K-tech gold valves w/ custom shim stacks and high flow valves, and raise forks 15mm in triple tree to put more weight on front wheel. Opinion ? My forks now are raised 10mm in triples as is other bike I own w/ good results. I guess I'm ready to spend money where needed. I'm also learning alot thanks to these replies. 

 Thank You for replies...     

I used the Motool to set total sag(static and rider) @ aprox. 35mm rear, and 40mm front( best I could get). Right now front fork preload is maxed and bottoming out, and rebound damping is all out to right feel, and  rear shock is set @ max soft w/ rebound 1-1/2 turns out; feels right. Rider sag is 40mm for the front, and rear is 35mm. I talked with K Tech suspension today; said not to use Maxima 5w, (already bought), but to use motul 5w for proper flow rate, change springs to a .85Nm, and the razor R rear shock $$ (not the Light). and be better to get their fork cartridges $$which come w/ the springs. Says preload not as imoprtant as dampening when setting up suspension.    can anyone comment on these recomendations please 

Thank You...

On 2/13/2022 at 12:06 AM, OZVFR said:

I hear there is fantastic riding to be done there.

If you're not handy with suspension work, the best bet is to find a good suspension shop in your area.

There is a fix, I just gave you one option, there's no fix using the stock parts, they are rubbish.

It also depends on your type of riding, some folks don't find anything wrong with the stock set up, and some people can't tell the difference between good and bad suspension.

As long as it brings a smile to your face, it's money well spent.

• Member
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13 minutes ago, OZVFR said:

HI’m 163lb, and found the rear shock had the correct spring rate for our weight, but is was too long to get correct sag. 

It also had practically no damping, compression or rebound. 

And my bike only had 7000km on the clock when I bought it  

Only way to fix it was to replace it, transformed the rear  

The front originally has a progressive springs, 0.7kg/mm soft part and 0.9km/mm on the hard part, again with practically no damping. The correct spring for my weight is 0.9 but it’s impossible to get correct sag with the soft portion. They also don’t have enough oil height which makes dive even worse.

With the single rate 0.9 springs and Racetech gold valves the bike is a totally different beast,  much better over bumps, solid on turns and very low dive under brakes  

I also raised the forks 15mm on the triples to place more weight on the front wheel.

The bike now compresses evenly in hard turns, is much more stable, isn’t unsettled in bumpy corners and makes the brakes feel a lot better. You can brake and still have front suspension travel to absorb bumps.

Its a very worthwhile expense if you’re going to keep the bike  

 

 

Not sure about the tech info on these fork springs and shocks, butt I'm sure there's a fix. where's a good info and a suspension supplier for suspension upgrade ? i'm probably going to keep the bike; but also still looking at the Aprilia RS 660 as a 2nd bike, but probably dont need it, but is so desirable cause of where i live in the (smokey mountains).

Thanks again..

On 2/11/2022 at 2:40 PM, 2and3cylinders said:

Try some hard braking, like panic stops, And see if the amount of travel to bottoming out is reduced. If not back off your preload till you get about 20 mm Under very hard breaking or over sharp fast bumps.

 If you have compression damping adjustment, try backing that off as well and then tweak Out the rebound damping accordingly

Well; thank you for that advise. I did some hard braking and hard cornering(tail of the dragon), and forks did bottom out ! If I start backing off fork preload, I may loose the great  cornering I now have. As you know, preload is at max. I guess I'll need heavier fork springs afaIk. If so; were do I start looking ? As stated, the rear shock is set @ full soft to get required sag. Should I also be looking to replace rear shock?

Thanks again...

Just came back from short ride; and adjusting this bikes suspension made a world of difference so far. I'm still left w/ 40mm to bottom out, and as I stated 40mm sag in the forks(not sure what that relates to). I'm assuming the rear preload and both rebounds I set are also good(for now), till i have more time to take it out for a longer ride on some curvy roads, but for now, i'm very satisfied, so much, I may take back my deposit on a Aprilia RS 660 I recently put down.   I still probably should change the fork oil.

Thanks again...

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

+1, which is what I initially stated.  Sag is just a way to gauge suspension action.  If it feels and works well for you (given you know what's happening technically) is what matters.  As long as it's not bottoming out, you want to use all but approximately the last 20 mm or so.  If braking dive is acceptable, which is a factor of both spring rate and compression damping, then you're in the ballpark.  Some like it stiffer with less brake dive, some want it softer.  It's all a matter of taste up to the point that the tire must be kept in constant and consistent contact with the road with the best size and shape contact patch without chatter or vibration and uncontrolled squirming.

Thanks for reply; Front fork travel is 137mm. According to Dave Moss, I should measure tube from above seal to bottom of tube and mark travel to find bottom out, and thats where I measure to tie band afaik.    

Well; the Motool makes this job much easier. Here's where I'm at: 

looking for 30-35% sag of full suspension travel. should be approx. 35-40mm sag front and rear afaik. Front preload now measures 40mm turned in all the way-hard; rebound damping screw turned all the way out .

Rear preload now measures 35mm; least position-soft; rebound damping; 1-1/2 turns in from soft(middle of adjustment) good. I think it tells me, rear too hard a spring and front too soft a spring. I think i have correct sag now front and rear; but i'll take a ride tomarrow, but not sure what i'm looking for. Hopefully it'll handle better for the street and not go thru front tires so quickly. 

Thanks or replies... 

3 hours ago, TomTracer said:

I see no reason to change fork oil so soon. And fork oil is pretty much the same across name brands. Unless you just like to tinker, spend the time riding. My $.02,!

Thanks for replies. 1st i'm trying to get an accurate sag adjustment using the Motool sag measuring tool. it's easier esp. doing by myself. I'm not sure how important static sag is compared to the total rider sag. reading posts on YTube, rider sag should be 30-35% of total suspension travel, 137mm front forks, and 130mm rear, or 30-35mm total rider sag, I measure lifting bike front and rear separately, set to 0, then measure sitting to get full sag measuement; then set rebound damping according to feel.  many differnt ways to get hopefully same results.

10 hours ago, howie333 said:

What I've read, I'de just have to dump oil , and pump up and out (to measure), as Dave Moss Video shows to do. According to maxima's 5W race oil would be the Yamaha 01 (KYB) equivilant. Correct me if wrong. Thank You...

If there's documentation or a video on that procedure, please let me know. TNX...

28 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

To remove the fork cap, necessary to remove the spring and spacer, an inexpensive spring compressor tool kit and a thread-on damper rod "grabber" to easily stroke the cartridge is required.  I clamp up the fork with plastic split collars made from PVC pipe in my trusty ancient Workmate clamping bench, and use a pair of ratcheting tie downs; one hook on a rubber hose cover socket extension through the axle hole and the top tie down hooks with a hose cover to the spring compressor.

Fork fluid of 16 Cst @ 40C (i.e., Torco RFF 5) should work well if you are 165# with the stock springs (that may be a little light) if you dial in the damping & preload front and rear.  You can use volume but measuring the air gap with the forks compressed, spring out, is the preferred method of setting fluid level; i.e., about 150~160 from top of tube compressed.

I doubt your bushings and seals are bad at that mileage though.  I drain the forks, fill them with inexpensive ATF as a flushing agent, pump and drain a couple of times, then installed the fresh fork fluid.  Setting the rebound rod length in the cap upon assembly is critical.

What I've read, I'de just have to dump oil , and pump up and out (to measure), as Dave Moss Video shows to do. According to maxima's 5W race oil would be the Yamaha 01 (KYB) equivilant. Correct me if wrong. Thank You...

14 minutes ago, betoney said:

Yes, you should change the fork AND shock oil on a regular basis, 'regular basis' for me is every 2 years or 20,000 miles.  You can do just a quick fluid change but -just my opinion- if you are going through the trouble of changing the old fluid, the forks should have a service inspection - new fluid, disassembly and cleaning, check bushings and seals.

When you pour out the old fork oil, you will be shocked at how nasty and grungy it is, just pouring the old fluid out leaves a lot of that sludge inside the fork orifices.

This video shows the quick and easy 'fluid change', not complete disassembly and cleaning.

Yes, I've viewed that video from Dave Moss. Very well laid out explanation. i guess I'll have to order that recomended 01 suspension oil, and follow Daves suggestion. Thanks for all comments. 

 

2017 FJ-09.  12K+ miles. 165 lbs. Manual states just to inspect forks @ specific mile intervals; but not to change fork oil and what weight. Local Dealer stated there shop usually doesn't change fork oil, and uses it uses a "0" weight. Can oil be changed w/o dissasembling the whole fork assemblies ? Manual states quantity (aprox. total 30 oz. for both fork tubes) and that it uses a Yamaha suspension oil 01.  not sure change interaval, but i think 12K miles is more than ready to change before I finally set this suspension up for my weight. What should be the change interval ? Just bought a Motool self sag measuring tool; so please help if can so I can order this fork oil. Can and should I use an aftermarket fork oil and what weight ? 

Thanks ; Howie...

Well; Thank you for the informative replies. I plan on reviewing what I measured and do again w/ a front wheel stand, and a Slacker measuring device I saw Dave Moss use which allows you to do all measurements yourself w/o anyone to help and can take my time to do a better job. Hopefully this suspension is salvagable and adjustable. How often should I be changing fork oil, manual states use Yamaha fork oil, but doesn't state what weight for climate and how I ride. I'm @ about 12.5 K miles now. I dout I'd have to rebuild them yet, just change oil maybe.

Thanks for replies..  

50 minutes ago, piotrek said:

...so that we're talking the same numbers... 30% of your total wheel travel (130mm per spec. for the rear) is 39mm. What is the free length?

The free length (stretched out)rear shock measured from 2 points(axle to fender point) was 590mm, static @ 583mm, and 550mm w/rider weight. So thats a 30-33mm rear sag. Is that right ?

50 minutes ago, piotrek said:

...so that we're talking the same numbers... 30% of your total wheel travel (130mm per spec. for the rear) is 39mm. What is the free length?

2017 FJ-09

I've been riding this bike since new with 12+K mikes. I would go thru front tires prematurely, always scalloping (cupping front tire) and bike could not handle any type of aggresive cornering, and could feel it in it's handling overall. ( I do live in the mountains of Tennessee). It occured to me the problem has always been in it's suspension settings. I had it set for soft ride and to help keep it low in the rear and always felt tall in the front. I'm 5'9" tall, and could just barely flat foot it. I just replaced the front tire, lowered the air pressure a few pounds from spec, and firmed up both front and rear compression and also set up rebound dampening. the bike handled better than it had, but i think it could be better and more precise. Today a friend and I tried to set up both front and rear spring compression and rebound dampening according to basic suspension tutorals, and general specs for my weight. According the Dave Moss and other video's i've studied, there should be approx. 30-35% total suspension sag front and rear for general street riding. I measure 150mm total fork travel, made deduction for actual fork travel and deducted the 137mm, made 13mm mak on fork tube, w/ tiewrap on fork tube, I measured 72mm left w/ fully loosened adjusters. would'nt my sag only be 46% ? I would need only 55mm left to get a 35% sag. I weigh 165 lbs. and cannot get baseline settings with this stock suspension. with the adjusters all turned fully looseened, I still cant get enough weight to compress the suspension to a 30-35% sag with my weight. I'm closer to barely get 20.5-23% sag. With this setting the bike handled badly. Does this mean I need a softer shock and front fork springs ? to handle better, i'd be barely @ 15-20% sag  w/ adjusters full loose!

Thank You...

Howie....

Thanks for reply.

You may be right about the Aprilia and other euro bikes, but that RS 660 does give an exhilarating experience. I'm 5'9" tall, and like faired sport bikes for there wind protection, looks, and ability to hide components and wiring. I want more power than the 650 Ninja offers, but other than the FJ-09, most are nakeds or supersports w/ the Inline 4 whine and extreme bar and feet placement. I like the looks of the Ducati Supersport S 950, but heat issue may be a turn-off. Owners of brands in question usually wont admit to there own bike faults if they if they like them enough to keep them. I also would like the street triple if was a faired/shielded design (a more upright Daytona) !  same goes for the Yamaha MT series. If I tried to modify, I'd just be trying to make something their not designed to be.  

Howie...

10 hours ago, texscottyd said:

The year and color are actually part of that model number number code (along with a C for California bikes).   ‘H’ is the year code for 2017, and ‘W’ is the white paint code, so ordering from the FJ09HW parts catalog will get you what you need.    

My 2015 red non-California bike is a FJ09FR, while the grey ones from that year are FJ09FGY.   The corresponding California models are FJ09FCR and FJ09FCGY.  

I hope that helps, and it sounds like you’ve ordered the correct part.  

Got It ; thank You !

47 minutes ago, fr8dog said:

Personally I couldn't go from the FJ to a parallel twin as my only bike. I've test ridden a couple and find them boring. For a second or third bike like the T7 I'm all in. 

My son had a Multistrada 950. It was top heavy. FJ handled better. I could live with the Multi as my only bike. Lots of great things about it. The fit and finish are incredible. I could stare at that bike for days in the garage.

 

 

Then I could venture for the Aprilia RSV4 or tuono V4. I'd probably lose my license, and low range for gas mileage, but big fun factor, and wind protection.  

I'm ordering a right side cowl from Partzilla for a metallic white 2017 FJ-09. there are several paint codes. 1st one is Dark Purplis, and the other which I think is white;  is cover 1/ UR for BWP1 part# 2pp-28219-00-p9.  says it fits the FJ-09 and FJ-09HW. What tells me it's the metalic white color ? 

TNX....

35 minutes ago, 1moreroad said:

That wasn't my experience riding a Ninja 650 v FJ. I was surprised how budget the 650 felt. 

Couple of possibilities - FJ is a little light in the front end. Raise the forks and maybe up the preload on the rear to put more weight on the front end. The "heavier" front end should make it turn in quicker. 

Have you played with suspension settings? OE suspension has a little bit of adjustment. 

Did the 17 FJ have a narrower handlebar than the 15? A wider handlebar would give you more leverage but might not fit you as well. 

Finally there is a suspension upgrade. $1000 - $2500 is cheaper than a new bike, but you might not want to throw good money into a pit. 

1st brought fork tubes down 13mm, and will bring back up to maybe 5-10mm? not sure yet. tightened up front and rear preloads and rebounds. it was better. I'm replacing front tire now(Dunlop Roadsmart 3). The Ninja just falls right into turns easier; just need more power from it. This is probably why want a 2nd bike. Someone mentioned to just put bar triple tree cap and tall bars on the new R7 or the upcoming R9, although I wish Yamaha could make something close to that Aprilia RS660  !  

17 Yamaha fj-09.
I've owned and ridden a 07 Ninja 650 since new. Great handling bike all arounder for me. I'm sure there are better. In 2017 when my wife needed a bike I gave up the Ninja; and decided on a Yamaha FJ-09. the bike felt OK when demo'd @ dealer on semi straight roads. the comfort, and power was great, Bought it. In time when I rode the Ninja, I noticed how much better it cornered on mountain roads in comparison to the Yamaha. I've set up the suspension for a firmer ride, found it to be slightly better. I've been battling a decision to sell this bike, fix it, or just get a more sporty ride. I  I run Dunlop Roadsmart 3's proper air pressure and dropped front fork tubes 10mm.The FJ needs to be pushed harder thru each turn which also causes premature scalloping of the front tire. the bike feels nimble otherwise. I was told to reduce the tire pressure of both tires slightly to reduce the scalloping. In measuring; the FJ is 1" longer, rake is 1" more, and trail the same, fork tubes 2-1/2" longer all in comparison to the Ninja. if I sell; there's not much out there in the 650 -900cc sport touring class I'm interested in. no nakeds or in line 4's. I'm looking at either another Ninja 650 , Ducati 950, or the Aprilia 660RS.

Please reply'
TNX....

8 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

This right here.

It's not.

Exactly.  I run:

Heated jacket liner, heated grips, heated gloves, heated helmet, LED light strips, and LED flood lamps, and a wireless fast charger for my cellphone, and my battery (I've got a meter like @betoney's above that also provides a USB port) sits comfortably at 13.9-14.1v with everything on high riding in -25C.  I've never once had an electrical/charging issue.

The Tracer has it's flaws, but a weak charging system isn't one of them.  

I mean, there's a part of me that says, "Hey, get the larger battery, and it'll last longer if something goes wrong!" but really, it's not going to make a big difference.  The most likely use case here is "I've left my keys in the bike and the lights on and gone inside" but in that case, it's going to sit like that till the next day anyways, and if the battery could still start the bike one hour longer than the stock battery, it's not going to make any difference whatsoever in the end result.  *shrugs*  A larger battery won't help you run more stuff at once (not that that is a problem) as that's a limit of the charging system not the battery.  It'll just run them longer when the bike is shut off, but that's really not something we want to be doing lest we risk the bike just not starting at all.

I agree. I also picked up a l.e.d. voltmeter to monitor.  I got nervous when bike shut down riding the tail of the Dragon and no cell service. replaced battery, later that month, the stator. I had always kept battery on tender. 

                 TNX for reply !  

2 hours ago, betoney said:

@howie333 - I'm curious as to the need for a larger battery.  A lot of people run multiple devices, including heated seats and riding gear on their bikes and you never hear of any issues, -battery capacity or needing excessive cca requirements just aren't topics that get discussed with this bike.  

  FJ-09 motor starts always seemed to need a little extra torque to start compared to a lower compression engine  on my Kawasaki  Ninja 650R.  The only additional loads on the FJ are a J+M CB radio, a chain oiler, and OEM heated grips. If safe, i'll stick w/stock battery size.