Wintersdark

On 6/3/2022 at 6:28 PM, Buggy Nate said:

Goodbye guys! My lovely tracer was traded in on a new T7. Sad days as I absolutely loved that engine but I feel like I did well to ride it for so long without a ticket or a free pair of bracelets! 😂

I shall still pop in from time to time to say hi and answer questions. I have the genuine Yamaha rack for sale too if anyone needs it in Australia. I feel like shipping would be exorbitant.

Keep the rubber side down and I’ll see you out there!

I'm seriously considering buying a set of the 2022 front side panels with the speed blocks to put on my red and white 2021.  I love those speed blocks, but I'm unsure if the red will match the red on the rear of mine.  Gotta see them side by side sometime 

On 4/18/2022 at 2:23 AM, petshark said:

If your signature is still correct: your 2020 definitely benefits from a tune, even without after market exhaust, but this thread is about tuning the new model. So far everyone agrees that it doesn't need a tune. 

Personally I find the stock exhaust beter looking than any after market exhaust. The less I see it, the better. Lucky for me!  I would even go further and say that if Acrapovic was a cheap Eastern European brand that all factories fitted by default and the stock exhaust that we have now was built by a racing parts company then most people would think that the OEM is the better looking one. IMO it's more about the mass hype and sexy names than how it looks. I have considered an acra for the sound but it looks like a downgrade to me visually. I have 120 hp at the wheel after the ECU flash so there's no real power gains neither.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's all subjective and I can certainly understand people enjoying their exhausts. I'm just happy with the stock one.

 

The 19-20 Gen2 models do benefit from a tune, but not nearly as much as the FJ's do as the base throttle is much improved over the older bikes.  I suspect it's both less necessary with the Gen3 T9's as the new motor eliminates the "dead spot" around 4000-4500 rpm and fuelling is again improved over the 19-20 models. 

5 hours ago, johnmark101 said:

I have had Ivan tune the ECU on a couple of my bikes.  His work is without peer.  The throttle response on the Tracer was much improved with his flash.  

What his flash did for my 2013 Kawasaki was nothing short of black magic.  Picked up a lot of midrange and peak power.  Throttle response could not be any smoother and more responsive.  His flash for this bike is one of the reasons why I decided not to sell it when getting the Tracer.  It is such a joy to ride and feel so connected to the bike every time you twist the throttle. 

An aftermarket exhaust is a good idea if you get your ECU flashed.  A richer fuel mixture could possibly clog your catalytic converter over time.  That, or gut the stock exhaust.

Older EFI bikes typically gain enormously from a flash, but the gains are much smaller these days.  2013 EFI is very, very far from modern EFI tuning.  

I'll note that when you're getting a flash - and I can't speak for Ivan specifically, but for the tuners I've dealt with - they'll give you a flash appropriate for your intake and exhaust setup.  You cannot (well, should not) use a flash intended for an aftermarket decat exhaust system on one with a stock exhaust and cat, or the reverse.  You need to be getting a flash specific for your setup, it is definitely not a "one size fits all" situation.  Minor changes like exhaust brand don't really matter much, but the presence/absence of a catalytic converter definitely does.

So, if you're not intended to change your exhaust, just get a flash for that purpose and you'll still reap the benefits of the flash without harming your cat/exhaust.  Flash changes these days go well beyond air/fuel mixtures; or at least any flash you should be considering does. 

On 5/31/2022 at 5:21 AM, 2and3cylinders said:

I wasn't talking hp but comfort and especially handling and brakes.

A FJ back then was a poor man's XR which is a rocketship but other than a QS and CC didn't have a lot I wanted for the complication and shekels. 

The GSX1K back then had worse fueling issues no one seemed could cure and was definitely NOT a sport tourer or could readily or cheaply converted to one.  The Ninja was an is an excellent ST at a great price but for me was heavy and had too sport committed ergos. Ditto for a VFR.  I not only rode both enough to know they didn't fit me but working on them is a shit show due the fairings, and the V4 also doubles the # of cams and working in the V is a PITA..  Plus I didn't want more that 3 pots and short of a Duc MS twin then, which were and are primo lira and non too reliable, offer limited and pricy dealer coverage and parts availability. 

I don't regret the money and more so the time I've spent to make my FJ my own, as it's the journey not the destination I enjoyed.  And I knew going in 105 HP at 470# was adequate, though 10 more #' would be nice and match my VTR.

Pure HP is fun occasionally but as long as it can easily crack a ton and still get me 500++ miles a day in comfort I'm a happy camper (or used to be when I didn't need a bed and bathroom LOL).  Don't the XR and KTM SDgt get like 33 mpg too?  A Triumph ST/Tiger and BMW RT had / have the same foibles as the Duc MS.

Yeah, no argument.  Beginning to end, I was at no point saying spending money on farkles in general was bad, just that spending money on go-fast farkles is incredibly inefficient in terms of money spent to zoomies zoomed.

Performance mods are very expensive and (short of VERY expensive ones, like turbos) net very minimal performance gains.

That's it, nothing about more comfortable seats, suspension, etc.  That's generally something you have to do with almost any bike, unless you're getting very much the top tier models. 

11 hours ago, trevinator said:

you could do this.....

Well, yeah, but that's exactly what I was talking about:  You spend a LOT of money to do that, where you could have just bought a faster bike in the first place   I mean, it's like $6750aud shipped before any addons.  Tracer money + ~$5000usd gets you a lot of motorcycle!

NGL though, I've spent a lot of time looking at websites for turbo kits.  

49 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I disagree generally especially if you get a decent bike like a FJ09 well moded used... or even new cheap like a 15 leftover in 16 for 8500.  Even then a used 15 XR was 14k plus tax ad double for insurance.   I know I checked before getting my 15.

My point is that if you want to go faster, $ per zoom, you're way better off spending $ on a faster bike.  New vs used is irrelevant as it applies either way.  Sure, a BMW costs a lot more, but are you seriously arguing that the XR is the only similar but faster bike?  I mean, you can get a new GSXS1000 cheaper than a new old stock Tracer 900, and it's significantly faster.  The Ninja 1000SX as well.  

In 2016, there were few low-cost competitors for the FJ, so in the context of specifically this type of bike you'd get some mileage there, but that's very much changed these days.  If you're expanding the bike type bracket a bit, it gets very crowded very quickly.  For instance, Yamaha's MT line.  The price difference between a MT07 and MT09 is (Canadian Maple Syrup Bucks) $2000 and that gets you a LOT of extra speed.  

Put another way: What go-faster mods can you do, that meaningfully increased the performance of your bike?

My experience is that people talk a big talk about how much typical stage one mods impact things, but in practice it's rarely more than 5-8hp (and that's very optimistic with modern bikes), and that's really not terribly noticeable on a 120hp bike.  Intake, exhaust and tune is realistically going to start at about a thousand dollars, likely ending up a fair bit more if you don't go very budget exhaust.  Going beyond stage one mods is extremely expensive, whereas generally speaking there's a range of bike options at basically every sort of power level with pretty granular pricing differences between them.

1 hour ago, nhchris said:

IF YA REALLY WANNA BE FAST...

I firmly believe the $$ spent on most performance-related farkles would yield much greater return  invested in track days and racing schools.

We riders are usually the lowest performance component on our modern motorcycles! 

Training for sure; but if you're not going to training (it's often simply not an option for people - god knows, I'd give my right nut to take formal advanced rider training!) ... If you've got money and want to go faster, it's pretty much always cheaper to just buy a faster bike.  Money spent on go-fast farkles is *never* an efficient way to go.

Not that it's bad, sometimes we just want to throw money at our babies and make them pretty.  But you can pretty much always go faster, cheaper, and more reliably by simply getting a faster bike instead.  Still, I'd be lying if I denied secretly lusting after a turbo 😃

1 hour ago, 1moreroad said:

That's funny because every friend with BMWs (all are Iron Butt members and long time STNers) all have Clearwaters on their bikes. They think my PIAAs are cute. 

hah every BMW GS owner I know has absolutely insane aftermarket lighting.  Usually $350-$500 worth.  Always name brand/oem dealer installed setups. 

I still maintain my little $26 Amazon LED bars look exactly the same in practice though. 

9 hours ago, skipperT said:

Oh and before I forget (again), clutch lever free play and chain tension are both different on this model:

-Yamaha wants chain measured on the side stand (suspension uncompressed)

-Clutch lever free play (measured at end) is 5-10mm, unlike the 10-20mm we are used to in the Tracers. Or, thinner than the width of a quarter (visualize a dime maybe?) When lever free play is lightly taken up.

Not a fan of some of the aftermarket center stands…. YMMV. 

-S

Regarding center stands: If you're looking for one, or even considering the OEM one, do some research. 

Some have a real problem with the "deployment peg" sticking out so far as to be a serious problem offroad, as they tend to be fully perpendicular to the length of the bike, and only moves forwards and down so if it catches on a rock or other unyielding obstacle, it's going to cause a very hard crash.   I don't have one myself, but I've *heard* that this is a problem with the OEM stand.

Also, there's been complaints about some having weak springs and being very loud offroad, bouncing and bashing off the underside of the bike.  There's a thread or three on it on the t7 forum.

The clutch has a MUCH broader friction zone than the Tracer and a very common modification if you don't have OEM crash bars is an aftermarket (see CamelADV again) clutch arm extension which lightens the clutch pull and increases that even further. 

And the chain slack measurement is done from the bottom of the chain guard rib, not the swingarm itself.  

I asked Michelin's customer service directly about their GT tires, and was told they're just stronger (reinforced) carcasses but the rubber is identical.  They're just designed to support the weight of a larger, heavier bike, but they offer the same grip and longevity.  Haven't bothered with anyone else though (was inquiring re: Road 5 vs Road 5 GT)

[quote]The good is that any tire with Silica (lots of brands have it) will offer very good grip in dry and the rain.[/quote]

Absolutely this.  Silica makes a huge difference.  It's not just rain, though; you'll get noticably better traction on ice and snow as well - I've got really extensive experience here.  Now, you may never choose to ride on ice, but it can happen.  Just another factor to consider if you ride more around "edge" seasons, or over wide altitude ranges.

6 hours ago, skipperT said:

dig the sticker under the brace between the pillion and main seat - my interpretation is that Yamaha wants the tool kit Installed in a certain place with the owners manual (marked by OK and a X of death symbol)…. But for the love of (whatever) why???

I've wondered about this since the first day I got my T7 home.  It's bizarre.  That sticker makes it look like you'll cause your T7 to spontaneously combust if you should have the audacity to put the toolkit on the wrong side of the owners manual.  

3 hours ago, Buggy Nate said:

So I did a thing! Went for a 1/2 hour ride on the T7. Stupidly smooth motor. Basically zero vibes at all, quite odd! Still got a bit of punch but it isn’t a Mt-09 motor!

The seat is firm but comfortable, bars are in the right spot and ergos feel spot on sitting or standing.

Yamaha still cannot make a quiet screen though! 🤣

The instruments wobble around a bit which is my only gripe. But apparently there is an aftermarket fix already.

Got a reasonable trade in price for the old girl. Pick up the new steed on Monday. Feel a bit stupid selling a perfectly good motorcycle but I fell in love with the tenere as soon as it came out. Spent the arvo pillaging the good bits like the hydraulic conversion, Brembo master cylinder and the top box.

Ill sell the genuine rack, rear sets etc when I get a second.

@skipperT what bits do the stealership assemble so I know what to specifically go over when I get home?

https://camel-adv.com/collections/yamaha-700-tenere-t7-parts-and-accessories/products/yamaha-700-tenere-t7-anti-bobble-head

This is the anti-bobblehead bracket.  You can get it for $20 from AliExpress/eBay as well, but CamelADV are the creators and have lots of GREAT other farkles, too.

They make the auxiliary fuel tank (very cool) too.

If you're looking for crash bars, I'd recommend anyone really *except* the OEM/Givi bars.  Heed, Adventurespec, Outback, etc, just not the OEM bars.

If you're going hard at farkling, you need to plan out your tail mods (rear racks, side racks, tail tidy) as there's only 4 bolts under the tail that can be used and there can definitely be compatibility issues between manufacturers.  

If you're riding offroad, be aware the stock exhaust will bend into the swingarm on a right side crash (be prepared to bend it back out, or you'll damage the exhaust and swingarm).  Many of us swap it for an aftermarket high exhaust which sits up more under the tail to be protected:

If you do, this needs to be checked for compatibility with racks/side cases too.  Above is a Huzar system ($250 shipped), CamelADV makes an option, and several others.  Not necessary, but if you're planning on crashing it probably a good idea.

22 hours ago, Cogswell said:

I was in a dealer in Asheville N.C. last weekend and looked at the T7 they had on the floor. If one was leaning toward a lot more off road type riding it looked like it would fit the bill well.  It was just too minimalist for my current riding style.  Tall and narrow seat doesn't look like it would be comfortable for hours on end riding. Not much wind or weather protection as well.

 

The stock seat is definitely not comfortable for hours on end riding.  Honestly, I would not buy one of you weren't interested in taking it out on dirt, at least fire roads.  It sacrifices some road manners to be over dirt capable; it's not a touring bike like the larger ADV bikes are.  

I just replaced my fork springs and took mine on my local groups twisty mountain road group ride (normally 100% the domain of the Tracer) and while it did the job and kept up, it definitely highlighted the Tracer's strengths.

The T7 gets *atrocious* fuel economy at high speeds (80+mph), and it's a bit of a sail so crosswinds on highways are more challenging... And big, knobby 50-50 tires are big knobby 50-50 tires.  And just a throttle lock vs cruise control.

So while I absolutely prefer it haunting around town, on shorter trips, or heading offroad.... Highways, faster rides?  It's definitely inferior to the Tracer.  This may seem obvious, but it's a major difference of midsized and large adventure bikes.

A 1250GS, or KTM1290, or even Super Tenere are very comfortable tourers, but the T7 has much more dirt bike in its DNA.  

2 hours ago, trevinator said:

i guess its a good thing my 2017 doesnt have cruise control then. 😜

Fair enough Doesnt show those taglines on the mobile app sadly, just didn't want someone else to go through the nightmare I did.

20 hours ago, trevinator said:

replaced the front tire today. i think it was the easiest tire change i have ever done! used the tire spoons to pop the bead, then remove the tire from the rim. little spray of soapy water and popped the new tire on and back on the bike. took less than an hour after finding a 14mm hex socket. oh, and i ordered what i think is the only rubber dampened 15 tooth jt sprocket left in the world for it. i only found the one and its coming from latvia. this is the part# if anyone is curious. JTF1591.15RB

15 tooth front sprocket will break cruise control.  Furthest you can go is 16/47, 15/45 will cause CC to shut itself off in 5-20 seconds.

2 hours ago, Ride365 said:

I am still loving the Michelin Pilot road 4's, hands down the finest riding and handling tire I have ever had on a motorcycle I have owned. I will continue to buy them if available, just don't see how the 5 or 6 can be any better than the 4.

I loved my 4's as well - two sets of those used.  The 5's where largely the same (though they looked cooler), but the 6's have a much better front tire.  It's a noticeable difference in the twisties; the front feels much tighter and more responsive. Supposedly much improved wet grip, but to be honest the 4's had such good wet grip that more is a welcome safety thing I suppose but doesn't really make that much difference to me as I ride much more sedately in the rain as a rule of thumb.

On 5/21/2022 at 7:39 AM, whisperquiet said:

I have a Tenere 700 and a Tracer 900 GT.  The Tenere 700 fits me better with lowered foot pegs and the taller Yamaha Rally seat…..it is a tall bike.  Both the Tracer and T700 engines are great with decent power for what I do.  The tubed tires of the T700 do suck for sure as I have had both front and rear flats during ownership.  I may end up doing a taped, tubeless conversion with the next tire change.  Dodged a bullet last week with a nail in the tire that did not cause a flat.

I will say that the Tenere 700 feels way heavier than it scales and is very top heavy.  I had to re-spring it front and rear to match my 230 lb riding weight as it is very soft from the factory.

The Tracer feels lighter than it is and is more nimble than the T700…..it could use a little more steering lock to lock though.  I am selling my Tracer because ergonomically it is just too small for my larger size and 35” inseam.

I will be keeping the Tenere 700 for a while.

As a tall guy, yeah, the T7 with a tall seat and lowered pegs is supremely comfortable.  I mean, I can't say it enough.  Stock it's still "normal" for tall-guy-on-a-regular-bike, but there's so much more room to make it fit you thanks to the ground clearance and taller optional seats.  I bought my Tracer specifically because my old MT07 was just way too small and the MT09 was largely the same size, and I do like that the Tracer is bigger... But it feels absolutely cramped in comparison.  

On 5/21/2022 at 4:50 AM, Buggy Nate said:

So, new bike itch is kinda sinking in.

The big tracer just isn't getting its legs stretched anymore as I am only doing a short commute now. I think its pure luck that beasty motor hasn't got me locked up yet either.

I had a Tenere 660 previously that I loved and put over 90,000k's on, so I am happy with the riding position etc.

My question is has anyone done a similar down/side grade and is happy with it? I loved the idea of a Mt-07 motor in an adventure frame the second it came out. The only thing that bugs me is going back to fixing tubes on the side of the road rather than jamming a quick rope plug in there. They are pulling silly money at the moment though so it's gunna hurt! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Tracer I kinda just want something a little higher, comfier and better on fuel.

Thoughts?

So.  The Tenere 700 is definitely taller, gets you excellent in town visibility, and IMHO is a FAR BETTER short distance around town bike.  The Tracer just wants to go faster all the time, and is very unhappy holding lower speed limits.  If you're a very tall guy (6'4", 300lbs here) you can get lowered pegs and god, it's SO MUCH more comfortable.  

If tube tires are really a problem, there are tubliss kits.  I dunno about you guys, though, I've never had flats to fix over some 30 years riding, so it's never really been an issue for me.  If I where riding in town and got a flat, though, I'd not be fixing it on the side of the road, I'd just get an Uber home, and come pick it up with a trailer then fix at home.  That's just me though; it's such an incredibly uncommon thing to have happen that it's not worth worrying about. 

The stock seat is hard.  It's not comfortable.  It's fine around town, but if you're taking long trips you want at least a cover (see: Mad Dog covers from amazon for a cheap one, or better one of the Cool Covers covers, or just a sheepie or whatever) or an aftermarket seat.

When riding in town, I nearly always choose the T7.  And here, to be clear, is not like a busy American city; we've got a couple million people but Calgary is HUGE, so speed limits tend to be between 60-70 or 100kph.  The CP2 has plenty of get up and go short of 160kph/100mph, you never feel slow (unless lining up with a supersport at a stop light anyways, but even then it's fine initially). 

Also, the T7 is WAY happier just bouncing over curbs and such if you need to go somewhere that the road doesn't exactly support.  

If I had to sell one of the two bikes?  It'd pain me, but it'd be the Tracer.  The T7 gets me offroad riding I can't really do on the Tracer, and it's more fun for commuting to work.  Where the Tracer is superior is on road trips, but as much as I love road trips they're only around a third of my overall riding, with commuting and adventure trips being another third each.  

Interestingly, there's talk of a Tenere 900 replacing the Super Tenere.  I'm honestly unsure if I'd want to trade both these in for one or not.  On one hand, the notion of adding 50hp, TCS, cruise control and such to the Tenere 700 makes it a dominant choice for long distance riding, but it'd almost certainly come at a large weight premium and that power would be unpleasant offroad.  I dunno.  Definitely wouldn't for a current Super Ten, it's twin is booooring.  

Fuel economy: The Tenere is better, but not by a lot.  I wouldn't factor this into the decision at all to be honest, as the actual dollars per month difference is going to be around a cup of coffee's worth.  Irrelevant.

Mine reads 7% fast.  

It'll always be a percentage, though, not a fixed number.  

The upside is, if I get a speeding ticket, it's for less than I expected.

At least here in Canada, 100% of people I've tested have speedos that read 6-8% high.  Literally 100%.  People argue and say theirs are correct, but then admit to not having actually tested at high speed.  So, I get them to ride at 120kph on the highway, and I follow them and track actual speed, and sure enough...  6-8% high reading.  Every single time.  This has held true and consistent with a variety of devices too; as well as across multiple apps.  Key is at least a kilometer riding at consistent speed, however, to eliminate any GPS error. 

The T7 is much worse, though - it reads almost 10% high - this is probably due in no small part to the Motoz tires and their insanely deep tread however. 

12 hours ago, Duanus said:

I added a set of Heed lower engine guards today. Very good manufacturing, welding, finish,,fitment, and shipping protection.  I got a link from someone from this forum. Thanks. Ordered from Europe without issue. Used a set of chocks and a small jack to support the engine while I pulled the motormount bolts (one side at a time). Had a tough time with the last upper bolt. I figured the engine was hanging low, but no, it was high. Pried up on the frame until I could start the bolt by hand. All in all an easy install that I like the look of.

I've got Heed bars on my T7, and I'm *extremely* happy with the quality there.  If I'd known they existed at all when I bought my Tracer I for sure would have gotten them instead of the Givi bars.  Way higher build quality - comparing the two isn't really even fair; the Givi bars look cheap and crappy in comparison even at a distance.  Welds, paint/powdercoat quality, tubing wall thickness.  

9 hours ago, betoney said:

I agree with this, most modern tires are pretty amazing and will outperform 'most' riders capabilities.  I have used most brands except Metzler and Avon but am willing to give them a try. 

I used to run Avon's exclusively back quite a few years (when they were more commonly available here) and never had a problem with them, where always good tires.  Mind you, that was with older 80's bikes, and Avon's had more weird sizes than other brands, which was a factor.  These days, it's SUPER rare to see Avons on store shelves, and though you can order them online I've never seen them used on anything other than cruisers.  I'm kind of curious, but I REALLY like my Road's now, so while I'm up for trying new tires I kind of want some strong recommendations before shelling out $$ to try them.

I've never run or even seen a Metzler in the flesh - they're even less common here. 

Quote

I tried Shinko once and the performance was fine but I got less than half the tread life compared to other brands. 

Yeah, that's a pretty common response.  It's what stops me from trying them personally as even though I'm changing all my own tires now, I'd rather not have to do it more than once or twice a year per bike.  It's a lot of work and hassle.  If you're NOT changing your own tires, then it bears considering tire change cost in the miles per dollar consideration, and that often wrecks low-mileage tires if value is a concern.

On 5/17/2022 at 6:30 PM, kilo3 said:

 

This does get heated sometimes, but honestly I feel it's really in the "Has lots of money and is happy spending it on a surplus of caution" vs "everyone else"

I mean, if I could afford to just replace every tire that got a leak (if I even had puncture issues) then I'd replace them.  But tires are stupid expensive.  What @betoney pays for a set of T32's get's me just one Shinko, so I'd absolutely patch. 

It's extremely common for these to be considered a lifetime repair.  It's a lot safer than a rope plug, and people use those for thousands of miles.  Basically, as long as it's in the bulk of the tire and not close to the sidewall, it's fine. 

Basically, the consensus normally is: A rope plug will get you to somewhere you can plug and patch properly, but what you want to consider the repair permanent is some sort of internal patch that can't be pushed out by the natural flexing of the tire.  

But you'll always have That Guy who's all "I'd never continue riding on a tire that's been damaged at all, as it's no longer as strong as it was."  He's not wrong per say, it's just a pretty extreme view and not really realistic for normal people.  

The reality is that a puncture that's NOT right by the sidewall is not going to catastrophically fail, at worst if it's plugged poorly it may however leak.  Any well done patch job ought to be fine though; if it holds air it holds air.  

11 hours ago, Suzukiguy said:

I just ordered a set of Shinko Verge X2 for my bike to try. I know they will not be comparable to the major brands as far as mileage, but I do my own tire changes, and for $262 for the set I figured why not???

I run Shinkos' on my vintage bike just because I like new, fresh rubber, as I only ride it about 4K miles per year, and the Shinkos' last that long, giving me new tires every season.

I will be doing some aggressive "following" in about 3 weeks in southern Indiana, and we shall see how they perform on a Tracer.

People dis shinkos all the time, but they're a really solid dual sport and adv tire.  I've never run them on a 100% street bike, but I admit I'm curious. 

Id expect shorter mileage but decent enough performance.

Abd that's something I feel bears highlighting: we all have tires we like and those we don't, but modern motorcycle tires are a bloody marvel and I'd argue few people ever push *any* tire anywhere near it's capabilities.  Basically any major manufacturer's tires should be reasonably decent, with allowances for different ideal temperatures, road surfaces, etc.  

I mean, I absolutely *hate* the stock Dunlop's that come on the Tracer.  I hate them because below freezing they feel like PVC tubes with hilariously little grip.  Also, I really dislike how Dunlop's feel while cornering - not that they're bad, I just don't like how they feel.  But they're a perfectly good tire if you don't ride when it's below freezing, and either don't mind how they feel or even (*shudder*) like it.

9 hours ago, KellyL said:

Just thought it's worth adding something extra from experience. The pinlock is great in preventing fogging during wet weather, but only up to a point. If you're in a total downpour and large amounts of water spray onto the pinlock from behind, the hydrophilic layer gets completely saturated and will make vision much much worse - like looking through jelly. It won't clear until the whole membrane dries up, which may take more than an hour in 100% humidity. It's actually quite dangerous in that state. With no pinlock I can flip up the visor and let the draft blow the drops off the back, but this doesn't work with the pinlock installed.

I've never used a pinlock visor, but with the dual pane and heated visors I have this has never been a problem, even in long days in the saddle during torrential rain (see: British Columbia interior). 

Mind you, this doesn't work via a hydrophilic coating but rather just preventing a temperature differential that causes condensation.  

9 hours ago, Sunde said:

Any evidence to back this up? I'v tried the Road 5's, and the T31/32's.
 My experience has been that milage is good, somewhat equal on both. As far as i know Bridgestones have superior sports performance. Same was concluded in a test by motorrad. The T31/32's seem to have better handeling characteritcs on corner entry when trail braking (most riders dont know how to do this) so probably wont ever notice. But most sport touring rubber will tend to stand you up and run you wide, T32's are the least prone to this according to my experience and test experience. My road 5's were not very confidence inspiring when heavy on the brakes into corners, totally acceptable however. Seems to me that bridgestone has generally nailed their front tires. Same goes for the S22 etc over pirellis sports tires. S22 front is touted as being fantastic. 
 If you value wet performance and cold performance then i'd go with road 5/6
If you value sporty (and totally fine wet/cold) performance and similar milage i'd 100% go for the T32s. Price here in Denmark is roughly similar, although the new Road 6 is the most expensive option.
You can drag knee on both if thats what you are after lol. 

The road 6 front is significantly different on corner entry under braking than the road 5 is.  That's the highlight change of the road 6 tires - the front has a new reinforced carcass and is much stiffer, getting rid of that vagueness that plagued the R5 front.

I was used to the road 4/5 front, but I fully respect how people didn't like the feel.  They were absolutely every bit as capable but didn't "talk" as well in aggressive cornering.  I got used to it earlier on (road 4 era, before I got winter tires and needed tires that would function in sub-freezing temps) and it was fine for me, but I totally understand the complaint.

Don't get me started on trail braking.  I personally feel *all* street riders should be taught trail braking as a requirement of getting your license, as it's an objectively safer means of navigating blind corners than "traditional" cornering.  Yeah, it's not always the fastest way through a corner, but fast easy tip in and the ability to react faster to changing circumstances mid corner is pure gold.  But I digress.  To cut off the rant: I trail brake pretty much exclusively in my twisty riding, as it's *all* blind mountain corners. 

Mileage for me wasn't even close.  Not even remotely.  I've got a set of used T32's and Road 5's in my garage right now, the road 5's having a full 5000 miles more on them but being in FAR better condition with more tread remaining but more importantly they held up far better under hard braking and acceleration.  With both run at the same pressures, the T32's wore into pretty bad shark teeth, so while there's still adequate tread depth they're largely unusable at this point.

Mine see pretty aggressive use, they're pulling my 300lb ass at over 200kph down those mountain roads, with very hard braking and acceleration.

Now, I'm not opposed to the idea that that's asking too much of the T32's, but the fact remains that the Michelin Roads could handle it. 

For lower temperatures, the Roads *dominate*.  It's not even close.  That's more niche though it's crucial to me as I'm riding below freezing for half the year.

To each their own, though.  Here there's a pretty sizeable difference in price, and for your dollar and for regular riding, the T32 is an excellent tire and damn good $/mile. It's definitely not *bad* in the cold and wet, perfectly ok, just not close to the Road 6.  I won't talk about the Bridgestone sport rubber as I've never run it. 

Tires are tires, though, and a lot of comparisons are going to be either purely subjective (how they feel) or heavily impacted by individual riding circumstances like temperatures, asphalt types, how they're used, weight of the bike/rider.

So, to each their own.  There's VERY little truly objective comparisons out there (virtually none in my experience) so you've just got your own experiences.

I mean, @betoney loves his T32's.  I think they're fine, and for many people a great deal given how much cheaper they are (North America), but for me they just don't last well enough to be worth the lower price. They grip just as well (at 7c and above), have excellent feedback.  

On 2/16/2022 at 7:04 PM, 2and3cylinders said:

I rechecked my Liberty Mutual motorcycle insurance policy.  Not a terrible premium I guess considering the coverage & limits, actual cash value payout and deductible, and given that I live in a Chicago bedroom burb.

I think my gear is also covered...maybe under the "Customizing Equipment".

Now that I've reviewed my policy again, I've got to check before renewal in late June if I should also buy the Better Bike Replacement; any thoughts on that?

Depends on what it costs

I've got something similar on my policies, where if my bikes are written off in the first two years of ownership I get a new one of the *current* model year as a replacement.  Haven't needed that, but my insurance is cheap even with it so it seemed like an awesome idea.