Grumpy Goat

10 hours ago, Ride365 said:

... Feel my 20 looks overall better, certainly don't like the new hard bags, don't like the dual gauge clusters, and yeah there has been some teething issues with this new model. ...

The panniers are an odd shape but from the right angle they can be acceptable. You didn't mention the seat which I dislike almost as much as the dash ... it is even more dished than the previous model, which we know needs the shim-fix to stop us sliding into the tank. That said I like this particular colourway.

4 hours ago, betoney said:

Correct, I shouldn't have said NO noise but in comparison it is VERY minimal.

🙂

Can never forget the first naked bike I rode - a gorgeous Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory ... I was blown away by how quiet it was from the wind perspective. The exhaust note was something else. Also, it was the first time I felt breeze in my butt. 🤪

17 hours ago, betoney said:

I have tried a lot of different screens on my bikes and discovered the ultimate for no noise and smooth air is a naked bike.  ...

I agree with you almost completely ... I would not say "no noise". Smooth air and zero buffeting definitely, but if there is wind movement there is noise. 🙂

That said the wind noise is smooth and quite reduced. The down-side of the naked bike (aside from weather protection) is for long distance riding the wind pressure is tiring for most. Aside from that nakeds are the way to go! My Tracer is a naked in summer. 😄

4 hours ago, BarryGT said:

I believe there are additives for break in, hence the 1000 km change schedule. I went ahead and changed the oil and filter.

Good move. Now have fun on your long ride and be safe.

6 hours ago, BarryGT said:

I have 830 km on my bike am I'm planning on a long ride. Should I change the oil now or wait until my ride is over? 

I suggest you change it now as you are close enough to the conventional first oil change of 600 miles. First oil change usually has the most stuff in the oil and you are saving nothing by waiting. Later oil changes can be more safely stretched out.

4 hours ago, Northern900 said:

So, I finally got around to a fix.  I changed out the clutch basket with the updated part number (the old part number is 1RC-16150-00-00 and the new one is B7N-16150-00-00).  I did not go through the clutch basket repair procedure that I have seen on this forum.  Didn't really have access to the tooling needed to drill out the old rivets etc.  The good news is that the replacement of the clutch basket (which was an easy job) solved the issue.  The bike is now smooth as silk.  As long as it doesn't blow up now, I think we're all set.  

 

Both cost $313 at Partzilla. Looks like the new one is for 2021 and up. How did you know that this was the solution? Was there a thread that discussed this?

7 hours ago, bowlin01 said:

@Grumpy Goat I could never buy a GS, although they are great bikes, they are far too common here, everybody in the sheep herd has one. Plus they have the 'old man' reputation here 🤣😂🤣, usually you progress from  GS to a mobility scooter 😂

When it comes to BMWs they are also the most popular over here as well and for me that is a down-side. I tend to like sport bikes which is why so far my boxer of choice is an RS rather than a GS. That said, much as I like riding, my bike is a tool albeit one that I enjoy using. I ride to get somewhere and to do something. nit ride for ride's sake. I often find it hard to go for a ride without destination (except when taking the bike out for exercise). I like touring and motocamping (remote / offroad) best, with the riding as secondary. This means that like it or not, the GS is the best tool for the job. I definitely do not fit into the Starbucks / poser crowd. 😄

7 hours ago, bowlin01 said:

@kilo3Yep pretty standard, had the 9GT for two days (but only had time to get out on it 1 day).

Dealers are keen to sell motorbikes they are more than happy to loan out the newest bikes from their test fleet if/ when they have your bike in for a Service/ maintenance that cannot reasonably be done 'while you wait'.

Seems sensible to me, donlt quite understand why your DEalers donlt do it. Are you lot really that untrustworthy? 😂🤣

 

It is sensible to me also. However from what I can tell there is a HUGE difference between the motorcycle culture over here and the culture in Europe. Here it is purely a luxury and dealers expect to sell you a motorcycle with least amount of trialing if they can help it. If they trust you, you may get a test ride and if you look mature enough maybe the ride won't be escorted. You definitely won't get it for anything like a day or more. At least here in Houston they don't have a test / demo fleet and if bikes are set aside for demos they are not advertised as such (e.g. with labels etc.).

4 hours ago, bowlin01 said:

Seat/ seating position (in the 'low' position as I'm a dwarf)- I've never had an issue with the GT900's seat (as many seem to) but found that the 9GT seat was very comfortable and liked that I felt that I was sat more 'in' the bike rather than 'on' it, very nice.

...

Dashboard - Awful, do not like the split screen layout and it is at the wrong angle, as soon as the slightest sunlight hits it I couldn't see a thing. Very poor both asthetically and functionally.

Looks - Generally better irl than in photos, although I can't stand that fact that only one 'spotlight' is on when in daylight running. Why not have both on ???? Looks awful.

Thanks for the ride report. I think that Yamaha could have a winner with this bike. They just need to fire the stylist first. The above items that makes me take a pass on the current GT. You said you sat "in" the bike more than "on" it and I guess that is because of the curved seat. I am not a fan ... I ride long distance sometimes and like a flat seat. And I don't like having to go spend additional money to get a custom seat which may or may not work. The dash is another deal-breaker especially when I hear that despite the fugliness, it is also functionally deficient. The looks are not a deal breaker although I am not in love with it and regarding the one-eyed spotlight look I agree with you.

Triumph is the other manufacturer of triples (which I like) but they have gone to some BS firing order to make the bike sound like a V-twin ... why are manufacturers doing this? If I wanted that old-school sound I'd get a V-twin. To my ears the Yamaha triple sounds much nicer than the Triumph triples of similar class. 

Hopefully Yamaha can offer a better designed Tracer GT in time for the next time I am seriously in the market, although I am leaning towards the next 1300 GS.

On 7/13/2022 at 6:36 PM, CJ3cyl said:

Well I tried to post a video but even a few second vid is too large. I assure you with the correct rectifier in place it blinks normally. The turn signals look like they belong on the bike.

Thanks for taking the time to come back and update the thread. Now I know what signals to get.

3 hours ago, Sunde said:

I have no issues with the seat on mine. Maybe me being 24 is the primary reason. You should see the stock seat honda shipped the VFR1200 with LOL. 

…

Glad you like your bike. Mine has no deceleration hump and the rest of the issues are subjective, and for me it is nothing to do with age although at my age things become less acceptable when there are options. Yamaha can have a great sport tourer and a value leader if they fix the issues I mentioned. Until then people just have to “settle” or move on. For me it’s a hard pass on the present T9.

1 hour ago, johnmark101 said:

You should consider sending your ECU to Ivan's Performance for a reflash.  It will smooth out the throttle response and it also removes all restrictions on the cruise control so that it can be used in all gears at all speeds.  

 

Ivan's Performance Products (ivansperformanceproducts.com)

Great tip, thanks. I’ll consider it if I keep the bike much longer. But for me I should not have to do this. I already paid my money and bought the bike … shouldn’t have to spend more to fix what should have been right  from the start. If Ivan can do it so can Yamaha, no?

Check out this article on Cycle World ... focuses on possible adaptive cruise control but also teases a proper dash instead of the dumb-faced split dash that is there on the current model. Test rider is sitting on the seat or else we might also get a hint whether they cured this other problem.

Regarding the cruise control ... I think that is a nonsense upgrade given this price point. They should first fix the cruise control so that you can activate it at more than 28 mph and lower than 4 gear (this for my 2019 900GT). Otherwise leave the cruise control alone and focus on other design missteps. The dash is a good start and the twitchy ride by wire throttle and weak rear brake are two others. Oh, and the U-shaped seat should also be fixed. After all that then I might consider a new one. 😏

7 hours ago, psyshack said:

I stopped at a dealer today and tried to buy a 2022 Tracer 9 GT. There out the door price all in was $15,299.00. They had a Icon and Red one. Only new bikes they had on the showroom floor. I offered $13k cash got the money on me and they wouldn't take it. 

Your timing is off. I'm not at all surprised they were not interested. Now is a seller's market. For that bike they'd probably turn down $14.5k out the door.

5 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I'd get this if I had the shekels in a heartbeat, that is if they ever make it over here.  No Guzzi dealers within 80 miles though...

 

Fastest Red!

The V100 Mandello is indeed a work of art and I can’t wait to see it in person. Luckily there is a dealer about 20 - 25 miles from my house. 

2 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

GG

S1000XR was the 1st beamer you fell for?!

How old are you?!

This was my first blue coolaid driven lust object

That is a beautiful bike indeed. I was out of motorcycling for over 34 years - first went to university so too poor, then met my now wife who was not supportive (put it that way).  She agreed back in 2014 and I jumped on the opportunity. Got a nice Honda CBR500R ABS before upgrading to the RS. Before that motorcycles to me were Japanese and fast, but a dream. Went to a demo days ride at a dealership looking to try a GS and they had none and so I jumped on the S1000XR without knowing what it was and came back saying "holy sh*t ... wtf was that?!" then went home and looked it up. 😁

1 hour ago, OldBikers said:

Cost is an important part of consideration.

I just love the R1000XR but couldn't justify spending the extra $6,000 to $9,000 more than the T9GT.  Yes the T9 has a wonky menu wheel and no BT or Nav and the semi-auto suspension only has two positions and has manual preload but are those worth that much more.  165 HP is nice on the track but does one really need it to tour or commute?  When I toured the Pyrenees I could have rented the XR but opted for a 2019 Tracer 900 GT and saved a few hundred Euros.

A friend just bought an XR and by the time he added options it ran north of $24,000.

A lot of the customer satisfaction comes from the dealer not the manufacturer.  Our local BMW dealer may be the most expensive for service in the country. Another friend brought in his GS800 for a valve check and left there with a $2,200 bill,OUCH!.

For me it is value, no so much cost. Value is an improtant part of my consideration. I don't mid buying an expensive bike if it will last forever and if it ticks most of the boxes while doing it. Buying something that is expensive and always in the shop is BS and represents very poor value for me.

For me the first BMW I fell in love with (I thought) was the S1000XR (not R1000XR; huge difference 😄) and at the time I was in that state (2015) there was no Tracer here to compare to. But the deal breaker at that time was the tingling handlebar with high engine rpms when cruising, and the absurd curved seat. Sound familiar? - at least I didn't slide into the blasted tank!

And then I rode my boxer and the rest is history. Didn't even love my RS when I first got it (bought it on the rebound from the S1000XR), but that all changed after my first long distance road trip.

Comparing the S1000XR to the current T9, from a riding standpoint the value winner (and better bike, looks aside) is the T9. If the Tracer 900 GT had an autoblipper (let alone a 6-axis IMU), I would have no hesitation saying that is the better bike for the average rider. That said, the T9's dash and the seat are the reasons I would wait until a redesign, but by that time I will likely have made a different decision. Note I said "from a riding standpoint" ... ownership for me also includes working on the bike and my BMW is a better bike to work on than my Tracer, but that is a separate discussion.

3 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

GG Thanks for your response. 

 I've admired Beamers since before I started riding

 I remember them as very refined And  Finey finished gentlemans express Twins

 They were actually too rich for my blood

I don't disagree at all, and that is one of the reasons I have a Yamaha as a sort of counterpoint, and to clarify I am not (as the thread title said) not sick of Yamaha. That said, when it comes to a bike that will go all over the world *and* have high mileage and seem to last forever, few can dispute that BMW is at the top of the list. Problem with BMWs is they have their people and they tend to be older and more well off (just go to a Rally and see how many grey heads you see!) and that helps to drive up prices ... not only of the bikes but also the accessories.

I also don't have the shekels to spare like the typical owner but, surprisingly to me, there are intangibles that make one stick with the marque (even if it means rolling all bikes into one) and that includes heritage and tradition, and - interestingly to me  lately - that sense of brotherhood in the national club here in NA. I an surprised to note that factor is influencing my likely decision to stay with BMW over other manufacturers.

8 hours ago, jthayer09 said:

... I also spent time reading the forums on the 1250 engine bikes from BMW and there are some things that are worrisome such as: shorter service intervals, having to change the alternator belt, and rust protection not being up to par. Specifically the gas tanks rusting is a huge problem; look up BMW abdeckring on Google.

...

If you care about my opinion at all here were my key feature comparisons between the T9 and the r1250r from riding both:

r1250r has better brakes but not by a large gap, hard to tell how much this was just better brake "feel" than objective stopping distance.

Yamaha's new quickshifter for 2021 and onwards is WORLDS better than BMW's it's not even a competition, most reviewers will agree it's probably the best in the biz right now, it is very good.

I will agree that the Yamaha quickshifter is significantly better than the BMW's on the R bikes in the lower gears (shifts 1-2-3). Everything else I tend to disagree with, including the brakes. The R/RS's brakes are better than the Yamaha's by the same amount that the Yamaha's QS is better than the BMW's.

I own/run a forum on the watercooled boxer in the R1200/R1250 R/RS, and am moderator on a larger German-based RS forum, and the issues you mention do not apply. For one, as far as I am aware the tanks are plastic and the ring area has zero rust problems. I also am part of a largish RS Owners group who meet annually and who have bought both the R1200 and then the R1250 RSs. Non one has reported any rusting issues anywhere. I suspect you may be mixing/matching years of R/RS bikes. Based on my 2 minute Google check, the ones with the rust on the "abdeckring" are pre 2014 and the R1200 R/RS waterboxers started in 2015/2016 depending on the market. The 1250 engine only showed up in the 2019 model year. When it came to rust, common complaints on some bikes are the centre stand which gets lots of debris damage from the road, and in the UK people note superficial rust on pannier racks ... in some cases. None of these are widely reported.

The BMW service interval is 6000 miles while that for my Yamaha is 4000 miles so I am confused about this shorter service interval you mention. Never heard of anyone having issues with alternator belts either.

I don't mean to come on a Yamaha model forum and extoll the virtues of the BMW but just thought I needed to correct certain generalizations based on personal experience as an owner of both bikes. The R/RS are not perfect, just like any other bike, and there are some things that I like on the Tracer better, but the issues you raised are not the issues which one should look at if in the market for a present model R/RS.

7 hours ago, psyshack said:

... After reading around forums my simple brain is starting to think possible a BMW R1250RS or heaven forbid a evil thug life Ducati Motard. ...

If in your quest for a second bike, the finances allow the BMW R1250RS, I say without hesitation - get it. Of my two bikes, the RS is my "naughty bike" but it is also so much more, and the 1250 is even more powerful. The bikes are quite different, but i you like torque and powerful brakes - front and rear - an many other things I will not mention on a Yamaha forum, then the RS is the perfect counterpoint to your Wing.

1 hour ago, petshark said:

I have no experience with supersports bikes but I imagine that the S1000 bikes get the best brakes that are available at a reasonable price point. The RS and GS will be a tier lower and the Tracer another one below that.

I don't think so. Aside from the M1000RR the RS and GS are both more expensive than the typical S1000RR / S1000R. Its in the tuning for the brakes (components like the brake master cylinder) and the pads used that makes the difference. Just looking at them, the Brembo calipers on the RS and the S1000R were very similar if not the same. Of course, it does help that the S1000R was more than 100# lighter than my RS.

Agree that the Tracer is not a premium bike so it cannot be compared to the BMW (and I am not, or else I'd mention the front brakes also, but I have not - the Tracer's are quite adequate) but all I am saying is that a bit more on a touring bike of this weight would be a good thing.

3 hours ago, petshark said:

I agree that if you demand stopping power from the rear, then Yamaha has failed miserably. But I do think this is by design. Maybe it's because the brand has much more of a sports bike heritage than BMW that they have settled on using the rear only for corrections while BMW knows its customer base wants everything to be wunderbar?

I don't know ... my S1000R had even better brakes than the RS - front and rear.

I'll just change out the pads and hope that it improves it to the best that it can be ... 🙂

16 hours ago, ZigMerid said:

I'm not sure a weak rear brake is a bad thing. Given that a rear brake is predominantly for control + adding maybe 10% to total breaking capability when applying the front brake, it must be extraordinarily weak to be noticeable.

Exactly how weak is the rear brake? Do you have to really stomp on it to get any braking effect? I would think that if a rear brake works well enough to help you control slow speed manoeuvres, then it's pretty much doing its job.

I agree on the typical use of the rear brake but I paid for rear brakes and I want it to work properly. As the rider I must have the option of how much rear brakes to apply, if at all.

My BMW has linked brakes and that system works quite well. I apply rear brakes when I want / need it, which is maybe 5% of the time, but that is hardly the point. I am not expecting it to be as strong as the BMW's but heck, I should not have to press that much to feel a good slowing effect. Added to that, the pedal was factory-installed such that it required too much ankle angle downward to get into the braking zone, and that is with the pedal adjustment all the way up. I made a video about this. I ended up having to put a pad on the pedal to bring it up to a good level where I now can press it properly. And yes since adding the pad I can activate the rear ABS, but the rear brake is still a wuss. Front brakes are quite adequate for what it is, thank God.

5 hours ago, KrustyKush said:

... Chain manufacturer says to use gear oil.  I don't like the gear oil stink, so I use the purpose designed stuff without the stink.  I also don't like the waxy spray on stuff; I don't think it really does very much except stay on the chain.

Actually, I doubt a significant amount of chain oil ever gets onto the rear brake rotor, but we must assume that some  does, because I find spots of oil here and there on the rear end, including on the right side of the wheel.  That's why I go an extra step every few days and wipe off the rear rotor with a brake cleaner solvent.  There's a tremendous amount of air flow back there.  Micro droplets get blown around.  Some will undoubtedly find their way onto the rotor.

Because brake pads, that operate nearby oily chains in windy conditions at high speeds, have been under development for so many decades, I bet pad material isn't much affected by this micro-amount of oil.  ...

I like / use the Dupont waxy stuff and it works well for me, all without the fling. I also have it in both spray and dropper bottle, the latter of which I use when travelling.

As for the brakes ... my previous BMW S1000R has both a chain and strong rear brakes and I used the waxy lube on that chain as well. I think the weak rear brake on the Tracer is due to the anaemic rear brake caliper.

There is no appreciable buildup of chain lube on anything and I don't wipe anything down regularly. The bike gets washed maybe once a month and the chain gets the waxy stuff every 500 miles.

Pads may make a difference and I have EBC pads slated for that end. I didn't put them on when I fitted the fronts because they were somehow rubbing at a very slight angle. I didn't have time to be faffing about with that so I put the original pads back on for now as they only had about 3500 miles on them IIRC.

2 hours ago, petshark said:

The brakes were an obvious weak point so I wanted to change the pads to EBC HH asap they did so much on the older bike but after some hard braking and heat cycling they are great too! Feels like a huge improvement to before. Maybe I'll just keep them. 

How are the rear brakes on the T9? Any different / better than the mediocre brakes on the 900 GT? Rode my RS recently and deliberately used rear brake only to check and needless to say they are quite powerful, compared to the "hint of a brake" from the rear of the Tracer.