What amp fuse have yall switched to for the accessory port?

[someguy]

If your S24+ gets up to 45W super fast charge then yes, a 5A fuse should cover it (60W max nominal).

You can check the actual power draw with a USB-C meter, something like this one: https://plugable.com/products/usbc-vameter/

Keep an eye on the harness insulation, terminal mouldings and solder points if you decide to proceed with this fuse swap.

@Hollybrook said “we each have to decide our own level of safety”, and it’s likely that Yamaha chose 2A as an engineering decision that considers safety for all potential environmental conditions, other fitted accessories, and stator capacity. E.g. if you read carefully in the dealer advisories, Yamaha actually don’t recommend combining side cases with a top box - it’s one or the other. That doesn’t stop people from fitting the combo.

To add some perspective: some Kawasakis don’t permit more than 12W on their accessory ports (and even discourage heated grips) because their stators are too small to handle anything extra.

Edited May 19 by someguy

[jthayer09]

21 hours ago, someguy said:

E.g. if you read carefully in the dealer advisories, Yamaha actually don’t recommend combining side cases with a top box - it’s one or the other. That doesn’t stop people from fitting the combo.

Yamaha legal is often good for a sensible laugh, the recommended shift points for the Tracer line always gives me a chuckle:

 

[2and3cylinders]

Do you guys all agree?This has been pissed to death?!

[Ride365]

It's a discussion and learning situation, exactly what this forum is supposed to be for.

[2and3cylinders]

I agree, but I think we've exhausted the topic for now and let people cogitate on it, and experiment, and then get back to us

[jthayer09]

On 5/18/2024 at 3:57 PM, Chlocker said:

So the information I've gleened from @jthayer09 post about PD is I need a 5amp max for the full charge speed.

 

Based off your information @Hollybrookyou think the 5amp fuse would be acceptable for the wiring correct?

 

@someguy can you double check me? Does all this sound correct to you as well?

 

If yall confirm this is reasonable I will swap out my fuse for the 5amp to test and report back. 

What @Hollybrook and @someguy have been saying is 100% correct regarding watts, wires, gauges, safety, etc. Everything they have been saying is factually correct; but this doesn't translate 1:1 for your phone charging speed as we're dealing with Li-ion technology and power protocols that are managed by battery management systems in your phone and a controller in the charger.

Li-ion as a technology is designed to discharge and charge on a curve for safety and longevity, as such you see diminishing returns on charging wattage very quickly. If you look at charts comparing 20W, 30W, 45W, 65W+++ chargers the time from 0% to 100% is within minutes of each other. Most gains are from 0 to 60% charge times before everything gets equalized by a phone's BMS to protect internals, as well as battery life and health. Charging wattage for the most part has just been a marketing arms race for manufacturers.

Take this analogy: your phone is a small 5 gallon bucket, the charger is a fire hydrant, and the cable is the firehose. You can spray the bucket at full blast with the firehose but very quickly water will start going everywhere, getting everything around it wet. The water is the electrical current in this analogy, and your phone's BMS will ramp this current down very quickly as your battery fills up for safety.

 

Quote

And it DOES blow the fuse using the C ports. I bought it thinking that it would autonegotiate the 2amp max. It is intermittent as the fuse will last me a couple days with around 3 hours of usage a day before blowing. So far I've replaced 3 fuses in the month-ish I've owned my 9gt.

@Chlocker, of course your Anker charger is blowing your fuse, did you read the output specs of the charger? The USB-C ports don't have a 2A option to negotiate; it's only 3A, you'd have to use the USB-A port to get the lower 2A options, below is the output specs from the Amazon posting you linked:

Switch to the USB-A port, see if your phone will negotiate 12V-1.5A or 9V-2A and not blow the 2A fuse.

Also, except for the 20V-3.35A step you wouldn't even utilize a 5A fuse, your phone can only do 45W tops right? You're not even going to use the 20V-3.35A step (67W) as your phone's BMS will call for the 45W through the 15V-3A step that the charger can do.

If you absolutely want to take the risk up upping your fuse: skip the 5A fuse, put in a 3A, use the USB-C ports. Be safer, also go read on Li-ion technology and charging protocols because you're chasing something that can't be caught; even with the 3A fuse I doubt you'll ever see 45W sustained.

[jthayer09]

 

Testing with the Anker 323 charger (30W) I purchased.

Testing done by tapping the screen open every few seconds while riding and having BatteryGuru app open and checking the battery % and current wattage. This isn't super scientific, I might do another 3 rounds with a cable that as a wattage display screen so I can view with screen off.

May 18 - 80% charge departure ~25mi each way, only charged on the outgoing trip, no charging on return trip.

80% to 89% - 18W max, average range of 12W-15W

90% to 97% - BMS hard limit 8W-10W

 

May 19 - 60% charge departure ~40mi each way

60% to 79% - 22W max, average range 18W-20W, started seeing some current drops to 1.0W; signaling failing 2A fuse?

80% to 89% - 18W max, average range of 12W-15W

90% to 100% - BMS hard limit 8W-10W

 

May 20 - 25% charge departure ~30mi each way.

25% - initial plug-in 28W!! Fuse immediately pops.

Replaced with 3A fuse

25%-59% - 28W max, generally 22W-25W range. This sprint took about 20 minutes, love it.

60%-69% - 25W max, stable at holding range between 20W-23W.

70%-79% - 20W max, general range of 15W to 18W.

80% to 89% - 18W max, fairly stable range of 12W-15W, start to see some drops into single digits here; possibly due to battery temperature.

90% to 100% - BMS hard limit 8W-10W.

Misc. Add 2W-4W with screen off, each time I opened the app I would see the live graph and see that while the screen was off there was a spike in the wattage graph. So I’m sure from 20% to 59% there was periods I was getting the full 30W out of the charger with the screen off.

25% to 100% took roughly 55 minutes total. Even though there are 2A steps for this charger it's clear that the way it negotiates with the phone it'll still use the 3A and 2.5A steps and blow the 2A fuse. I have an 18W charger coming that has steps: 5V-3A, 9V-2A, 12V-1.5A. I'll put the 2A fuse back in the bike and see if negotiation completely ignores the 3A step thus making the stock fuse viable; or even do what I said previously and find an old USB-A to A cable that forces 1.5A and use an adapter.

Initial spot check under the seat didn’t spot any melted wires under the fuse box or further down the harness.

Here’s hoping @Chlocker gets 45W with a 3A fuse in their testing even if it’s just for a few %s.

[Chlocker]

@jthayer09

What phone are you using? 

I am going to try to copy your testing as close as I can. 

My testing parameters:
Device: Samsung Galaxy S24+

Charging adaptor: Above mentioned Anker 535 (will correct model number if incorrect) 

Charging cable: included anker cable with the adaptor. 

@jthayer09 you mentioned the cable can change the power the adaptor will put out. I'm assuming since the charger only does 3amp, that anker included a 3amp cable. You know more about this than I do. Can you confirm that? I tried to read through but I couldn't find an amp spec on the cable? 

Fuse: I don't believe I have a 3amp fuse with me currently, so I will be testing with a 5amp fuse

Ambient temp: 85f Real Feel 90f will update with dash temp as well. 

I'm going to download Battery Guru and run that to align with your info but I'm not as fluent with that as with accubattery. 

Going to leave my phone playing a YouTube video on max brightness to kill my battery and then test the charge. I'm specifically curious about the 0%-60% range as I only let it 45w charge until 60%. Unfortunately I only have a 38 minute ride as I'm driving to the hospital and won't be able to test for an unknown time period. I will update my results when I arrive. 

[Chlocker]

Do you also know Ambient temp when you ran these tests? Accubattery includes a battery temp. Does Battery guru? 

[jthayer09]

On 5/20/2024 at 4:21 PM, Chlocker said:

@jthayer09

What phone are you using? 

I am going to try to copy your testing as close as I can. 

My testing parameters:
Device: Samsung Galaxy S24+

Charging adaptor: Above mentioned Anker 535 (will correct model number if incorrect) 

Charging cable: included anker cable with the adaptor. 

@jthayer09 you mentioned the cable can change the power the adaptor will put out. I'm assuming since the charger only does 3amp, that anker included a 3amp cable. You know more about this than I do. Can you confirm that? I tried to read through but I couldn't find an amp spec on the cable? 

Fuse: I don't believe I have a 3amp fuse with me currently, so I will be testing with a 5amp fuse

Ambient temp: 85f Real Feel 90f will update with dash temp as well. 

I'm going to download Battery Guru and run that to align with your info but I'm not as fluent with that as with accubattery. 

Going to leave my phone playing a YouTube video on max brightness to kill my battery and then test the charge. I'm specifically curious about the 0%-60% range as I only let it 45w charge until 60%. Unfortunately I only have a 38 minute ride as I'm driving to the hospital and won't be able to test for an unknown time period. I will update my results when I arrive. 

I have a 2023 Motorola Edge+ which can call for up to 68W for what they call "turbo power".

USB-A cables were originally specified for 1.5A, I'm struggling to find an old school cable that is still 1.5A, pretty much everything is 3.0A now. USB-A to C cables are 3.0A (most advertise 3.1A), USB-C to C cables are 5.0A. These are the minimum requirements of the USB-IF specs, any name brand manufacturer cable should mirror those. You can obviously buy nicer thicker cables for different purposes (charging vs. data transfer, or both). I have a thicc-boi cable for my VR headset.

On 5/20/2024 at 4:23 PM, Chlocker said:

Do you also know Ambient temp when you ran these tests? Accubattery includes a battery temp. Does Battery guru? 

May 18 was between 70F and 72F during my ride.

May 19 and today was between 84F and 88F for testing.

Can't see previous days' battery temps, but today's test was 26C at charging start, 32C average, 42C Maximum.

[Chlocker]

I understand now what you meant by the 45w not being possible.

I think I've been mislead/misreading accubattery incorrectly and thinking I've been getting 20w+ average speeds. Or Alternatively Batteryguru is incorrect but I trust your knowledge more so if you are using guru I'm inclined to belive guru vs accubattery. 

Dash read 95f ambient

Upon plugging in I was already at 94f and immediately thermal throttled. Averaged 6w stationary and got up to 15w max at 80mph.

Will have to test more at a later date. I did get 40% in 40 minutes though. 

[jthayer09]

Accubattery and Battery Guru basically do the same thing and are both great apps, I used Accubattery for many years before I discovered I just like Battery Guru's UI better. If you're seeing drastically different results I would check the app permissions for each and make sure they have access to all the sensors they need, and make sure both apps have unrestricted battery usage.

I do think Accubattery polls the sensors at a slower interval than Battery Guru. Comparing them side by side it looks like Accu polls every 2 seconds and Battery Guru polls every 1 second; or at the very least that's the interval the display updates. Hypothetically, let's say your phone pulls the following wattages every 0.5s: for 4s 20W 22W 30W 25W 30W 28W 25W 30W.

Accubattery would report 25W, and 30W.
Battery Guru would report 22W, 25W, 28W, 30W.

I bet this also means when you wake the screen on your phone Accubattery probably displays the higher watt screen-off charging number for a second longer before displaying the charging drop from waking your screen, Battery Guru reports that wattage drop faster because it polls more frequently.

So your results might look a bit different as you're watching, but that's fine; both apps can only approximate numbers based on sensor polling. The only true accurate reading is to use an external USB tester do give realtime readouts between your cable and phone.

[Chlocker]

Ordered that USB tester Amazon prime, it delivers tomorrow. I'll retest with the tester and I'm going to skip the app testing. 

Edited May 21 by Chlocker

[Chlocker]

Minor update. 

 

@jthayer09you were correct. It thermal throttles because of the heat before I get to 19w. I've seen 18w max so far.

I have the 3amp fuse in at the moment. 

[jthayer09]

6 hours ago, Chlocker said:

Minor update. 

 

@jthayer09you were correct. It thermal throttles because of the heat before I get to 19w. I've seen 18w max so far.

I have the 3amp fuse in at the moment. 

That's a bit surprising that you're hitting a thermal wall at 19W. What battery % are you starting the charge at? Your phone's BMS will only call for higher wattage at lower battery life; remember Li-ion charging is curved to protect the battery: Lower battery = higher wattage, and vice versa.

I get 50W from my wall charger at 20% life remaining to roughly 25%, my phone is advertised to get up to 68W but that realistically only happens when my battery is 10% or less.