Hazard lights strange behaviour

[bugie]

Hey all,
 
Having a bit of an odd issue with my GT which I thought i might rack your brains about..
 
So I replaced my original indicators with these: yme-w0789-00-00. The indicators come with factory resistors to cater for blinker speed rate.
 
Since installing them I noticed odd behaviour when using the hazard lights. The hazard lights seem to work fine with the engine off but when the engine is started they cut out almost immediately. The indicators also won't work for 4-5 seconds after the hazard light stops working. After about 5 seconds you can cancel the indicator from the switch and use them as normal. Additionally, the resistors seem to get quite hot when using the indicators.
 
 
So does anyone have the same indicators on the bike? If so have they noticed the same issue? Additionally, any tips for troubleshooting this issue?
 
Thanks,
 
Chris

[skipperT]

The resistors getting warm because of operation is normal.
 
I don’t have a GT, however all Yamahas have something called a Starting circuit cut-off relay, which doesn’t allow certain items (ie headlights) to power on until the engine actually starts.
 
So I’m not sure how you wired in the new signals but I would suspect your install first. Verify that you tapped into wires that are not controlled by this relay.
 
If it was a plug-and-play type of situation then try installing your original signals back in and see if the behavior corrects itself, or stays the same. Then you can troubleshoot from there.
 
-Skip

[duhs10]

@bugie I also recommend using a flasher relay instead of resistors. Resistors work but the relay is easier and allows you to adjust the flash rate to your liking... probably won't solve this problem but thought I would throw it out there.
 
https://tstindustries.com/TST-LED-Flasher-Relay-Gen2.html

[bugie]

Thanks guys,
 
The kit is a plug and play Yamaha accessory. It comes with resistors that connect inline. Unfortunately, I had to cut the original indicator wire to connect them up as they come with bullet connectors. That way I avoided touching the wiring harness and could use the original yamaha connectors.
 
Have since tested the hazard lights by disconnecting individual indicators and have noticed that with any 3 indicators connected the hazard lights work fine whilst with all 4 indicators connected they flash a couple of times and then stop. Am still confused as to why this issue only appears to occur when the engine is actually running. Is it possible that the indicators are overloading the circuit?
 
 

 
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[duhs10]

If you had to cut wires.... then they aren't plug and play.
 
Good luck with your troubles.

[skipperT]

Ok so that picture on the RH side of the instruction (thank you for uploading that!) pointing to item 5 (load resistor) shows that the resistors get hot while operating, and indicates mounting it somewhere to the frame with zip ties will decrease the temp of the resistor.
 
Yes, I can speak Japanese Pictionary. ?
 
Polarity is very important also. Double check your connections to make sure + and - are followed from the signal, connected to the resistor, and to the harness.
 
On the harness side, BU on the front signals is for the RUNNING lamps. BK is ground, dark GN and BN are the positive, signal side from the turn signal relay.
 
-Another possibility is that the kit is incorrect and one of the relays has the positive and negative mixed up. If you could isolate which blinker causes the issue, then you could swap one resistor with the other to see if the problem moves WITh the resistor or doesn’t change anything.
 
-The other issue is that kit is only really meant to be installed on the Rear of the bike, because the signals are 2wire with no running lamp circuit - based on the picture you uploaded. If you are trying to make them work on the front, there could be a compatibility issue. Which reflects your observation in stating that when you connect 3 signals it’s fine, but the 4th signal causes the issue.
 
-Finally, in some dim part of my memory I remember one time switching signals of the rear of a newer Yamaha and I don’t recall which model (Tenere, fz or FJ 09) but there was a resistor hidden in the factory black shrink tubing up in the tail section of the bike.
If you spliced into the wiring BEFORE that resistor, that means you now unknowingly have 2 resistors on EACH SIDE of the rear signals which might slow down the operation of the whole circuit.
 
So that’s something else to check.
 
-Skip
 
 
 

[skipperT]

Oh and to answer your other question: the only thing I can speculate about engine running causes it to worsen, might be due to the available current in the circuit while the bike is running, which is greater than 13.5 to 14v usually before voltage drops. With the bike switched on and just sitting there, it’s typically less: 11.5-12.4v.
 
“Is it possible it’s overloading the circuit?”
Absolutely, especially if you’ve mixed up the BU running lamp circuit with the dk GN or BN + side somewhere. I’ve seen that happen before, where there’s NOT a true ground connected properly somewhere, and the light operates slightly but not correctly.
 
Usually that’s when someone wired up a signal to both BU and BN, for example. Or in the rear he taps the brake circuit by mistake.
 
-S

[bugie]

Thank you for the very informative reply Skip. have added some comments in Blue
 
Polarity is very important also. Double check your connections to make sure + and - are followed from the signal, connected to the resistor, and to the harness. Will be stripping the front cowl to do this tonight as have already checked the rear.
 
On the harness side, BU on the front signals is for the RUNNING lamps. BK is ground, dark GN and BN are the positive, signal side from the turn signal relay. I am assuming (and yes i know what happens when you assume ) these are colours. Burgundy, Black, Green and Brown? I don't believe this should be an issue as I haven't removed the existing connectors on the harness so shouldn't have impacted polarity
 
-Another possibility is that the kit is incorrect and one of the relays has the positive and negative mixed up. If you could isolate which blinker causes the issue, then you could swap one resistor with the other to see if the problem moves WITh the resistor or doesn’t change anything. That is the strange thing. no matter what indicator i disconnect, there is no impact on the functioning of the hazard light. It is only when all 4 are connected that the issue is encountered making me believe it's not a faulty indicator/resistor/wiring on 1 specific indicator
 
-The other issue is that kit is only really meant to be installed on the Rear of the bike, because the signals are 2wire with no running lamp circuit - based on the picture you uploaded. If you are trying to make them work on the front, there could be a compatibility issue. Which reflects your observation in stating that when you connect 3 signals it’s fine, but the 4th signal causes the issue. My bike is a European model so it doesn't come with running lights. The existing stock front indicators only have 2 wires. To connect the new indicators I actually cut the wire between the indicator and connector so am connecting into the standard connector on the wiring harness (hence I should not be crossing pins)
 
-Finally, in some dim part of my memory I remember one time switching signals of the rear of a newer Yamaha and I don’t recall which model (Tenere, fz or FJ 09) but there was a resistor hidden in the factory black shrink tubing up in the tail section of the bike.
If you spliced into the wiring BEFORE that resistor, that means you now unknowingly have 2 resistors on EACH SIDE of the rear signals which might slow down the operation of the whole circuit. As said earlier I didn't splice the wires and instead cut the existing indicator wires as indicated in the pic below. The indicators are marked as being compatible for the GT model so surely these indicators would have had instructions to disregard or remove the resistore if this would be an issue?
 

 

[skipperT]

Thank you for the very informative reply Skip. have added some comments in Blue 
Polarity is very important also. Double check your connections to make sure + and - are followed from the signal, connected to the resistor, and to the harness.
Will be stripping the front cowl to do this tonight as have already checked the rear.
 
Thumbs up.
 
 
 
On the harness side, BU on the front signals is for the RUNNING lamps. BK is ground, dark GN and BN are the positive, signal side from the turn signal relay.
I am assuming (and yes i know what happens when you assume ) these are colours. Burgundy, Black, Green and Brown? I don't believe this should be an issue as I haven't removed the existing connectors on the harness so shouldn't have impacted polarity
 
LoL. Sorry for the confusion, the color code I used is first letter and last letter: so BU= Blue, BK=Black, green and brown. Technically I think Yamaha uses Bl for blue, but whatev's.
Based on your reply, no it shouldn't be an issue. However, I would check to be sure that the pins in the connector didn't get swapped by mistake when it was put together. So verify that the pin on the turn signal side matches the correct wiring color on the harness side. (BK to BK, GN to GN, etc).  I've seen that happen before, especially when only 2 pins are used out of 3 on a 3 terminal connector.

 
-Another possibility is that the kit is incorrect and one of the relays has the positive and negative mixed up. If you could isolate which blinker causes the issue, then you could swap one resistor with the other to see if the problem moves WITh the resistor or doesn’t change anything.
That is the strange thing. no matter what indicator i disconnect, there is no impact on the functioning of the hazard light. It is only when all 4 are connected that the issue is encountered making me believe it's not a faulty indicator/resistor/wiring on 1 specific indicator

Gottcha. So it doesn't matter which signal is connected last? Anotherwords, it doesn't seem to always be caused by the LH front being the final (out of 4 signals) connected as opposed to the RH front being connected last? Hmm...
 
 
-The other issue is that kit is only really meant to be installed on the Rear of the bike, because the signals are 2wire with no running lamp circuit - based on the picture you uploaded. If you are trying to make them work on the front, there could be a compatibility issue. Which reflects your observation in stating that when you connect 3 signals it’s fine, but the 4th signal causes the issue.
My bike is a European model so it doesn't come with running lights. The existing stock front indicators only have 2 wires. To connect the new indicators I actually cut the wire between the indicator and connector so am connecting into the standard connector on the wiring harness (hence I should not be crossing pins)
 
Oh, ok. makes sense. So your bike being a Euro model also only has 2pin connectors as opposed to 3pin on the harness side. As I mentioned earlier, verify the pins are in the correct spot.
 
 
-Finally, in some dim part of my memory I remember one time switching signals of the rear of a newer Yamaha and I don’t recall which model (Tenere, fz or FJ 09) but there was a resistor hidden in the factory black shrink tubing up in the tail section of the bike.
 
If you spliced into the wiring BEFORE that resistor, that means you now unknowingly have 2 resistors on EACH SIDE of the rear signals which might slow down the operation of the whole circuit. As said earlier I didn't splice the wires and instead cut the existing indicator wires as indicated in the pic below. The indicators are marked as being compatible for the GT model so surely these indicators would have had instructions to disregard or remove the resistore if this would be an issue?
 
 
You would think, but if that kit fits multiple models then they may not have specified. As I mentioned, those resistors are installed on the rear IIRC.  Is this picture of a FRONT signal? I think that the Super 10 has them wired into the rear only, hence why they cost over $100, but this was several years ago that I performed that swap.
 

 
 

 
-S

 

[bugie]

Thanks once again for your assistance @skippert ,
 
So after going through the joy of opening up the front cowls again (damn locker washers) and realising that all 4 indicators are indeed wired up correctly , out of desperation I tried one of the indicators without a resistor in place and contrary to my expectations there was no change in flashing speed.
 
So I removed both front resistors and hey presto problem solved and hazard lights remain permanently on
 
Note; When I tried removing front and rear resistors the flashing speed became rapid. I haven't checked if there is any difference if the resistors are at the front or back but they are difficult to access in the front cowling so it makes sense to keep the resistor at the back of the bike. The European website doesn't list the indicators as front or rear as the Canadian one does probably due to it not being a running light.
 
 
 
 

[skipperT]

@bugie no worries, glad you got her figured out!
 
File that one away, that you only need the load equalizers on the front OR the rear, to make the flash rate correct.
 
Would have been nice if The Mothership wrote that out, but oh well. Now it’s documented here for future searches.
 
-Skip