Cam Chain Tensioner - Manual install

[dazzler24]

I've just installed a manual cam chain tensioner as the automatic one was getting increasingly noisier and I haven't hit the starter yet as I'm suffering from nervous sphincter tightening.  Just wanted to check in with the forum experts here to ensure I've not missed anything in the install process.

1. Rotated the crank to get the timing mark to appear in the window (left hand side) - (not sure if this step is entirely necessary?)

2. Put a cable tie around the timing chain to minimise the risk of skipping teeth - after removing the cover of course.

3. Felt the sideways tension on the chain before removing the CCT.

3. Removed the 'old' automatic CCT.

4. Installed the Manual CCT and wound it in with fingers until it engaged the cam slider.

5. Nipped the new CCT up until I 'felt' that the chain had the same/similar feel (sideways tension) to when the old CCT was installed.

 

Question: -

1. The new CCT doesn't block off the oil passage that can be seen in one of the photos.  Is that an issue?  I seemed to recall reading somewhere that the oil passage needs to be blocked off?  The internal casting, while longer than the old CCT isn't a snug fit with the bore.

2. If all of the above meets with the approval of the learned many, are these my next steps.......? 

Fire her up and get to operating temperature then listen for ticking (loose) or whine (tight) before I adjust if/as necessary, or do the adjusting from a cold start?

I await the wisdom of the many.

[peteinpa]

I like the zip tie way. I followed a video where you wedge something between the engine casing and the guide.

Mine is the pro version, I have 8 to 9 threads showing at the top.

I did nothing with the oil hole. Might order a standard valve cover bolt for that corner. it was changed for one revision of the OEM CCT.

You should be good.

[skipperT]

The zip tie down below really isn’t doing anything, hate to break it to you. These engines typically will jump time and skip teeth on the camshaft sprockets, not the crank side. 
 

Which timing mark did you use? There are 2, and the line is NOT the correct one. You are looking for a sideways V in the window: so it will look like this through the timing inspection hole.  “<“ (but rotated just slightly ccw so that the lower line of the < is parallel with horizon if that makes sense. ) 

In my experience the cam chain tension changes as the engine is rotated. So sure, you can hit that start button and adjust as The engine is running but the tension will be loose in certain places and because it’s a manual tensioner I think you could easily skip out of time on the cam sprockets. 
What do the instructions say?

If it were me I’d pull the valve cover and rotate the engine by hand in the proper direction while watching the tension between the cams and also the tension as it leaves the crank sprocket and travels toward the intake cam sprocket. At some point while you are rotating the engine manually you will find a spot where the chain tension loosens up. Snug up the manual tensioner at that point and continue rotating the engine while double checking and watching the chain.

You will see what I mean after performing this procedure. 

then put it back together and fire it up. Adjust final tension at that point while running. yes this is a longer procedure but it’s safer. 
YMMV,

skip

[bwringer]

Thanks for asking!

I plan to install a manual tensioner at some point, and I have some of the same questions. I'll follow this thread with interest.

I also think removing the valve cover would be safest; the camshafts want to skip time when the tensioner is removed.

That looks like the APE tensioner -- is that correct?

One item I'd add is to replace those stupid socket head retaining bolts with standard hex head flange bolts. When I did my valve clearance adjustments, it was much easier to reach these bolts with a ratcheting wrench, rather than wearing my fingers out 1/6 turn at a time with a shortened hex key...

Edited April 8, 2021 by bwringer

[dazzler24]

Thanks for the detailed reply @skipperT.

Quote

The zip tie down below really isn’t doing anything, hate to break it to you. These engines typically will jump time and skip teeth on the camshaft sprockets, not the crank side.

Damn! Not what I wanted to hear!  However, I was super careful when removing the auto CCT and watched the chain closely and listened carefully for any tell tale sounds that might indicate a skip.  Not impossible to still happen but I'm reasonably confident (well was before reading this 😲)  that nothing has moved.

Quote

Which timing mark did you use? There are 2, and the line is NOT the correct one. You are looking for a sideways V in the window: so it will look like this through the timing inspection hole.  “<“ (but rotated just slightly ccw so that the lower line of the < is parallel with horizon if that makes sense. )

Yes, I used the sideways 'V' timing mark.  I understand that that is the 120deg BTDC mark that puts the least tension on the cams from the valve springs?  Am I right in that thinking?

Quote

What do the instructions say?

Simply to finger tighten the tensioner down onto the CCT slider until the chain barely moves when you push/pull it, then to back it off 1/2 a turn and then lock off.  Start engine and do any fine adjustments from there if necessary.

Quote

If it were me I’d pull the valve cover and rotate the engine by hand in the proper direction while watching the tension between the cams and also the tension as it leaves the crank sprocket and travels toward the intake cam sprocket. At some point while you are rotating the engine manually you will find a spot where the chain tension loosens up. Snug up the manual tensioner at that point and continue rotating the engine while double checking and watching the chain.

Now you've frightened me a little bit!  I've sort of done this step but without pulling the valve cover off.  By that I mean I've rotated the crank counterclockwise while checking for changes in tension as you described but only through the side cover access.  I didn't notice any, or only very slight, differences in tension while doing this?

I really appreciate, respect and value your expertise skip, so thanks very much for your input and advice.

[dazzler24]

44 minutes ago, bwringer said:

That looks like the APE tensioner -- is that correct?

Yes.

Quote

One item I'd add is to replace those stupid socket head retaining bolts with standard hex head flange bolts. When I did my valve clearance adjustments, it was much easier to reach these bolts with a ratcheting wrench, rather than wearing my fingers out 1/6 turn at a time with a shortened hex key...

Yes, I tend to agree with you there and there are those that have done just that from what I've read around the traps.

[dazzler24]

Found this old thread with lots of discussion and experience from many who have installed one of these.

Based on the concensus there I'm hoping that I'll be OK?!

[skipperT]

1 hour ago, dazzler24 said:

Thanks for the detailed reply @skipperT.

Sure.

1 hour ago, dazzler24 said:

Damn! Not what I wanted to hear!  However, I was super careful when removing the auto CCT and watched the chain closely and listened carefully for any tell tale sounds that might indicate a skip.  Not impossible to still happen but I'm reasonably confident (well was before reading this 😲)  that nothing has moved.

Yes, I used the sideways 'V' timing mark.  I understand that that is the 120deg BTDC mark that puts the least tension on the cams from the valve springs?  Am I right in that thinking?

Yes. The reason this mark is used is that there is the LEAST amount of pressure placed on the valves by the cam lobes in this position, which is why the factory says to pull and install cams in this position only. The chances of breaking a cam by improper loosening/tightening/installation is greatly reduced.

1 hour ago, dazzler24 said:

Simply to finger tighten the tensioner down onto the CCT slider until the chain barely moves when you push/pull it, then to back it off 1/2 a turn and then lock off.  Start engine and do any fine adjustments from there if necessary.

Now you've frightened me a little bit!  I've sort of done this step but without pulling the valve cover off.  By that I mean I've rotated the crank counterclockwise while checking for changes in tension as you described but only through the side cover access.  I didn't notice any, or only very slight, differences in tension while doing this?

Don't be too frightened... based on your replies I'd say you've done everything correctly. If you rotated the engine by hand and didn't observe much change in the tension of the chain then I would say it's probably close. The only thing you didn't do is a visual check at the valve cover to confirm timing marks and/or chain tension from that angle.

One final way to confirm would be to have someone else rotate the engine by hand slowly while you attempted to increase the manual tensioner's force on the chain. If you go 2 crank rotations (which equals one rotation of the cams) without changing the adjustment then I'd say that's pretty much the most you can do before starting it up.

My guess is that you'll know if it's out of time when it starts, because you recently listened to it running perfectly before swapping the tensioner out.

I'm a bit nuts I think, because I perform what I just suggested to you above - even when installing the Yamaha stock tensioners - because their instructions say to wind in the special tool clockwise until resistance is felt, and then go an additional 1/8 turn (IIRC). However, when I do that I still find that there is a bit of slop in the chain tension depending on the position of the lobes and whether the cam is trying to rotate forward to the next position, or being not quite pulled along by the exhaust camshaft or in the case of the EX cam being pulled along toward the crank gear.

It's difficult to type out in words, but at some point I'll take a short video of what I'm referring to... hopefully what I've written here makes sense.

-Skip

[dazzler24]

Thanks again for your informed response.

Quote

I'm a bit nuts I think, because I perform what I just suggested to you above - even when installing the Yamaha stock tensioners

I don't know about being a 'bit nuts', more like just being very thorough I'm thinking. 🙂

Cheers

[dazzler24]

To give some feedback regarding this, I tentatively fired her up today and the mystical smoke that keeps everything working didn't escape, so I was very happy to get past that worrying hurdle.

The bike idled as expected and revved fine as well.  The integrity of the timing hasn't been compromised! AKA - no skipped teeth - halleluiah!

I proceeded to warm her up and listened closely for any unusual noises.  Even used the old 'holding the screwdriver like a stethoscope against the cam chain cover and path trick' (said like Maxwell Smart 😉 ) to try to pick up any unusual noises and found....nothing - well nothing unwanted at least!  In fact, I didn't realise how much noise was coming from that area until I did this install!  Had I nailed the perfect spot when doing the initial adjusting on the first attempt??!

I thought I should do a gentle adjust while running the bike to be sure but couldn't get it sounding and feeling (through the allen key adjuster) any better so nipped up the lock nut and went for a short 100kms ride stopping at intervals to listen again.

I must admit that I thought that I could detect a chain rattle on one of my stops but pulling the clutch in proved that the noise was in fact coming from the clutch basket which tells you how quiet the cam chain now is.

I revved the bike up through the rev range to around 8K RPM on my ride on several occasions and it felt and sounded buttery smooth at all revs.

Hard to quantify but the bike just felt.... 'better' in all aspects - quiet, smooth, responsive, even less vibration - is that possible from this mod?  Maybe some of it was in my head but hey, it put a smile on my dial nevertheless. 🙂

So, all in all I'm very pleased but will keep an ear on things while it beds in.   From many reports from others on the interwebs who have done this it's a pretty much set and forget for many, many miles it would seem.

Happy days.

Special thanks to @skipperT for sage advice and who, by all accounts, is 'the man' (or certainly one of them) when it comes to the mechanical side of this machine.

[skipperT]

(Blushing)

Hey @dazzler24, glad everything worked out!

it was interesting to read all 14 pages of that thread on the FZ forum. Guess you don’t really NEED to pull the valve cover after all as long as the screwdriver holds... I learned a couple tricks from that post too, anyway thanks for sharing  

-Skip