NotVeryCreative16 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) So I'm performing my first valve clearance check/adjustment on my 2015 FJ-09 at 25k miles and things are not exactly going as planned. When I removed the valve cover, two of the allen key bolts holding the cover in place were broken completely in half (red arrows in the first picture). The bolt hole going through both exhaust camshaft caps are pretty badly stripped with one of them completely split through the side of the hole (2nd and 3rd pictures). EDIT: I originally thought that the hole in the second picture was stripped, but it turns out that there was just a bunch of metal shavings around the threads; this is confusing because the bolt is in perfect condition with no galling and when I cleaned out the threads, it now appears perfectly fine with no damage and the bolt screws in perfectly. I'm not sure how this can be explained honestly as the shavings definitely looked like aluminum and not some sort of Loctite or other adhesive (4th, 5th, and 6th pictures below). PXL-20210530-213853169-2 Image PXL-20210530-213853169-2 hosted in ImgBB PXL-20210530-182657557-2 Image PXL-20210530-182657557-2 hosted in ImgBB PXL-20210530-171407814 Image PXL-20210530-171407814 hosted in ImgBB PXL-20210530-184722466-2 Image PXL-20210530-184722466-2 hosted in ImgBB PXL-20210531-024801841 Image PXL-20210531-024801841 hosted in ImgBB PXL-20210531-021656083 Image PXL-20210531-021656083 hosted in ImgBB Also to note, the valve cover bolt (one of the two bolts that broke in half) on the top left (when looking from the front) that goes through the intake camshaft cap has this oddly shaped washer (1st picture below) under it that seems to be what others have described the dealer using when performing the recall work on the cam chain tensioner. The washer I'm referring to can also be seen in the 2nd picture below (white arrow) along with the camshaft cap that it came from which still has the other half of the bolt inside it (red arrow). The blue arrow in the second picture is pointing to the same bolt hole from the 3rd picture above that is split down the side. PXL-20210530-171936132 Image PXL-20210530-171936132 hosted in ImgBB PXL-20210530-171034879-2 Image PXL-20210530-171034879-2 hosted in ImgBB I reached out to the previous owner who I bought the bike from and he said that this CCT recall work was indeed done and he believes that he remembers a valve cover bolt being replaced also (this adds up with what I'm seeing). He provided me with the paperwork that lists the job as "M2016-004A FJ09/FZ09 CAM CHAIN TENSIONER NOISE - KIT #1." The only parts listed, however, are the "TENSIONER KIT 1" and "GASKET, TENSIONER CA," but if you look at the second link below with the 2015 FZ-09 diagram, the Tensioner Kit 1 includes the new bolt, gasket, and funny shaped washer that they call a collar (#33-35 in the second link below). He also said that when they did this work, the CCT was immediately leaking and that he now knows that this dealer is known for hiring cheap labor and providing poor service; he added that he thinks the tech probably just drilled the bolts beyond spec and stripped the threads - this was my initial thought also, but I can't help but to be concerned that this may somehow be related to the extremely tight valves or from the issue that was supposed to be solved with the new bolt/washer that was replaced during the CCT recall work. For reference, the exhaust valves were all very tight (0.11-0.13 mm) and the intake valves were on the tight end as well (0.11-0.12 mm). I'm not sure how relevant the following information is, but for context: I do often ride the bike pretty hard at high-end RPMs and I also have an after-market exhaust with the ECU flashed by vcyclenut. The spark plugs look great, however, with no signs of the bike running rich or lean. The spark plug gaps are within spec and I'd damn near consider not replacing them if they weren't so cheap and difficult to get to. So with all that being said, I have a few questions: 1) What would you do in this situation? I plan to reach out to Yamaha with detailed pictures and the recall paperwork from the dealer; should I reach out to the dealer that performed the recall work also? I can't find anyone else complaining about this exact issue so I have to believe that this was just incompetence by the tech at the dealership who over torqued the bolts and stripped the threads. I don't know if I would just be wasting my time with this and if the single stripped bolt hole is repairable, it should be a quick and easy fix. 2) I've done plenty of research and it seems like my best bet at this point is to just replace the broken bolts and use a helicoil kit on the stripped threads. I'm going to call around and see what different machining, milling, or motorcycle shops would charge to drill out and place a helicoil as I feel like this isn't the best time to learn how to use them. However, I'm worried that this may not be a sufficient solution for the bolt hole that is split down the side - any thoughts on that? 3) Another huge concern of mine is the metal shavings on the bolts and the thought that some of those shavings may have made their way into the engine while I was removing them. I would think the small shavings would just drop to the bottom of the oil pan and I can just drain the oil again soon to remove them, but if the piece from the 3rd picture was broken off while I was removing the valve cover myself, that would obviously be a major issue. I would think that I would have heard it snap so I feel like it was done by the dealer 10k miles ago with the recall work, but it's definitely a concern. Any thoughts? If you made it this far, I really appreciate any insight/information you can provide while I try to come out of this with a running motorcycle while not going broke in the meantime. Thanks in advance! Just a moment... Just a moment... EDIT: I think what I'm going to try to do is use the Extreme Heat JB Weld to fill the hole and repair the cracked part of the collar and allow it to cure with the bolt covered in wax inside. I watched a video of a guy doing this with a completely drilled out hole and it held to 8 or 9 ft lbs. If I do this inside of a hole that still has most of the threads inside (just damaged, not completely drilled out like the video I watched), I'm hoping that I can get it to hold the 7 ft lbs that the bolt requires. If the threads fail, I will take it to a shop to have someone drill and tap the hole and place a helicoil Edited May 31, 2021 by NotVeryCreative16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Heli ATP Posted May 31, 2021 Supporting Member Share Posted May 31, 2021 I'm not qualified to give advice but do a search on ebay for FJ-09 cylinder head assembly... Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014 2015 2016 Cams <p>Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014 2015... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 19 minutes ago, Heli ATP said: I'm not qualified to give advice but do a search on ebay for FJ-09 cylinder head assembly... Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014 2015 2016 Cams <p>Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014 2015... Thanks, but I'd rather not go that route if I can avoid it. I edited my post after doing some research and it looks like using a helicoil kit is going to be the best resolution, but I still have some kinks to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayzonk Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Are you planning on doing the work yourself? If a shop is doing it, I would recommend getting a new top end. For what it will cost to disassemble and reassemble your engine then fix it, you might as well splurge on the top and and have it fixed right. I'm not sure that the helicoils are meant to withstand high engine Temps? Regardless, I just don't think you're going to get a satisfactory repair job by just fixing the stripped holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Jayzonk said: Are you planning on doing the work yourself? If a shop is doing it, I would recommend getting a new top end. For what it will cost to disassemble and reassemble your engine then fix it, you might as well splurge on the top and and have it fixed right. I'm not sure that the helicoils are meant to withstand high engine Temps? Regardless, I just don't think you're going to get a satisfactory repair job by just fixing the stripped holes. After taking some time to clean out the various parts and play around with them, it seems like I'm just going to need to get the one bolt hole fixed (the one in the 3rd picture) as the other ones are not stripped like I originally thought; the one just had the broken piece of bolt that I was able to remove and the other two just needed to be cleaned out - I jumped to a conclusion a little prematurely when I found two broken bolts. The concern is whether or not the bolt hole in the 3rd picture can be repaired properly since it is split down the side. My bike is currently disassembled in my garage so I would just be taking the one camshaft cap into a machining/milling shop to hopefully have it repaired. If I was paying someone to disassemble everything like you mentioned, I would probably lean towards your solution. You may be right that a helicoil won't give me satisfactory repair job in this exact instance, but I have read countless reports of people using helicoils in their camshaft covers and cylinder head covers with no issues. I do appreciate your input. I'm going to wait a little longer to hear if others think it can be repaired properly and will take the camshaft cap to a shop or two to hear what they have to say. If it can be repaired, my only issue is whether or not any of the metal shavings/pieces have fallen into the engine. I'm not exactly sure what to do in that regard. I would assume that it will drop into the oil pan at some point, but I'm not sure if I would have to run the engine to get it to do so and if I run the risk of damaging something in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayzonk Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I'm wondering if the mechanic can run a really light viscosity oil through it to flush out some of the shavings? Perhaps it does little good unless the engine is cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I don't have much to add in terms of how to fix the issues with the threads. However I'm pretty confident that the damage to the cam cover bolt holes was not caused by the tensioner kit install (or shouldn't have been). The broken bolt with the colar could be from the tensioner kit install and over torquing the bolt, but the camshaft caps wouldn't have been touched. The valve cover doesn't get removed during the CCT replacement. Very strange that those threads / bolt holes were damaged. '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 2 hours ago, duhs10 said: I don't have much to add in terms of how to fix the issues with the threads. However I'm pretty confident that the damage to the cam cover bolt holes was not caused by the tensioner kit install (or shouldn't have been). The broken bolt with the colar could be from the tensioner kit install and over torquing the bolt, but the camshaft caps wouldn't have been touched. The valve cover doesn't get removed during the CCT replacement. Very strange that those threads / bolt holes were damaged. Perhaps I wasn't clear with my wording. The broken bolt hole with the collar is for the bolt that goes through the valve cover and the camshaft cap. All 16 of the bolt holes going just through the camshaft caps are fine. You're correct that they would not have been touched during the CCT recall work. The broken bolts are the ones that would have been removed when removing the valve cover. 9 hours ago, Jayzonk said: I'm wondering if the mechanic can run a really light viscosity oil through it to flush out some of the shavings? Perhaps it does little good unless the engine is cycling. Perhaps. That's definitely a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, NotVeryCreative16 said: Perhaps I wasn't clear with my wording. The broken bolt hole with the collar is for the bolt that goes through the valve cover and the camshaft cap. All 16 of the bolt holes going just through the camshaft caps are fine. You're correct that they would not have been touched during the CCT recall work. The broken bolts are the ones that would have been removed when removing the valve cover. Oh ok.. that makes sense. I thought you were describing multiple threads as well as the valve cover bolt with the collar. Likely over-tightened during the CCT replacement. So if you are just using helicoils for the valve cover bolts I think they would work. Although it will go the countless heat cycles, there shouldn't be much pressure on them. A concern I might have is that if the new threads were to fail/break and end up in the valve train it could cause some problems. '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 5 hours ago, duhs10 said: Oh ok.. that makes sense. I thought you were describing multiple threads as well as the valve cover bolt with the collar. Likely over-tightened during the CCT replacement. So if you are just using helicoils for the valve cover bolts I think they would work. Although it will go the countless heat cycles, there shouldn't be much pressure on them. A concern I might have is that if the new threads were to fail/break and end up in the valve train it could cause some problems. Yeah, that's definitely a concern of mine. I'm probably going to take it to a fabrication or welding shop tomorrow and see if they can fill the hole/crack and then drill/tap out new threads. I'm fairly confident that it was done during the CCT replacement also, but I can't help to worry that the piece that broke off the collar didn't fall off until I was removing the valve cover and is now floating around somewhere in the engine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member knyte Posted May 31, 2021 Supporting Member Share Posted May 31, 2021 5 hours ago, duhs10 said: helicoils for the valve cover bolts I think they would work. Although it will go the countless heat cycles, there shouldn't be much pressure on them. A concern I might have is that if the new threads were to fail/break and end up in the valve train it could cause some problems. Agree completely. Not huge torque or pressures there. However, and not that my opinion means anything, but if it were me I'd replace the valve cover. Otherwise I'd always be anticipating the failure. Would rather an intact cover be installed and never have to think about it again. That said, taking it to a machine shop, as you say, is a fantastic second-best. 2015 FJ-09 / FJR touring bags / oil plug mod / Evotech rad guard / SW Motech bash plate / VStream touring windshield / Seat Concepts: Sport Touring / Vcyclenut ABS rings (speedo correction) / Cosmo RAM mount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, NotVeryCreative16 said: ... I'm probably going to take it to a fabrication or welding shop tomorrow and see if they can fill the hole/crack and then drill/tap out new threads. I'm fairly confident that it was done during the CCT replacement also... Did you decide not to involve the dealer "that last touched it"? I know it is a holiday weekend - but when they open up I would see if they can help. If you take them to small claims court, it looks good to involve them early rather than just hit them with a bill at the end. Clearly you did not cause this mess. I suppose you would have a more solid claim if you were there customer (as you didn't own the bike when the "work" was done). Edited May 31, 2021 by Lone Wolf 1980 Yamaha 850 Triple (sold). Too many bikes to list, FJ-09 is next on my list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, knyte said: Agree completely. Not huge torque or pressures there. However, and not that my opinion means anything, but if it were me I'd replace the valve cover. Otherwise I'd always be anticipating the failure. Would rather an intact cover be installed and never have to think about it again. That said, taking it to a machine shop, as you say, is a fantastic second-best. The problem is it's not the valve cover that is broken; that would be a $130 fix and I would probably just eat that. It's the camshaft cap with the broken collar/stripped threads which the bolt that goes through the valve cover secures into. I would have to replace the entire cylinder head assembly which is almost $600 brand new. I'm going to swing by a couple when I have time this week and see what they think and how much something like that would cost. 37 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Did you decide not to involve the dealer "that last touched it"? I know it is a holiday weekend - but when they open up I would see if they can help. If you take them to small claims court, it looks good to involve them early rather than just hit them with a bill at the end. Clearly you did not cause this mess. I suppose you would have a more solid claim if you were there customer (as you didn't own the bike when the "work" was done). They were closed today for Memorial Day. I am going to call them tomorrow, but I'd be shocked if they offer any resolution - worth a try though. The shop is about 4 hours away from where I live now so I don't know how feasible taking them to court will be, but I will certainly threaten them with that option. I will call Yamaha also and see if I have any lucky there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member knyte Posted May 31, 2021 Supporting Member Share Posted May 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, NotVeryCreative16 said: I would have to replace the entire cylinder head assembly which is almost $600 brand new. Like I said, my opinion means nothing 🤔 Thanks for the clarification. Good luck!! Hope you find a favourable solution 1 2015 FJ-09 / FJR touring bags / oil plug mod / Evotech rad guard / SW Motech bash plate / VStream touring windshield / Seat Concepts: Sport Touring / Vcyclenut ABS rings (speedo correction) / Cosmo RAM mount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayzonk Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 The machine shop is going tobcost you a minimum of $300 (and likely $450) when you consider setup time, fitment, possible refinement of the part if it doesn't work. Highly suggest going with the new top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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