Cat/ pigeons... a FOCUSSED touring version of the Tracer?

[Guest lawrenceofsuburbia]

[strong]An MT-09 (FZ-09)-based 100% tourer…?
[/strong]
Yamaha is already doing creative things using the original MT-09/ FZ-09 sports-bike as the base.
 
The MT-09/ FJ-09 Tracer sports-tourer motorcycle is the latest iteration of this development, but almost everyone, both here and in the motorcycling press, says it is very much more sport-oriented than touring. If you will – the child of the mad MT-09 sports bike with a great-grandfather Teneré lurking somewhere in the background.
 
So I cannot help wondering if (? when) Yamaha might take the next step by using the Tracer platform to develop a real, focussed tourer, as opposed to a sport (90%)-tourer (10%) as in the Tracer. In fact, I’d be very surprised if something along these dedicated-tourer lines isn’t already under development at Yamaha.
 
So what I’d like to see is as follows:
 
• Abandon all faux off-road pretensions – forget smaller front wheel, beak, bash-plate, etc. Design it around purely tarmac use for extended touring in comfort.
 
• More compliant and better quality suspension to enable real long-distance tarmac touring in comfort.
 
• Quality seat, adjustable for height.
 
• Ditch the three engine modes in favour of one well-sorted touring mode, or at most one ‘normal’ and one ‘rain’ mode, if you must.
 
• Put any cost-savings towards an efficient cruise control via the existing ECU.
 
• Keep ABS and maybe TC.
 
• Increase tank capacity by a minimum of (say) 2L.
 
• Install a more effective touring screen, adjustable without tools and possibly while riding.
 
• Gear the bike more favourably towards unstressed cruising and better fuel efficiency – make 6th gear an overdrive (say, at 100kph/ 60mph = <3500rpm).
 
• Keep the hard panniers as a standard fitment and increase capacity to a minimum of (say) 30L each (up from ~20L each).
 
• As standard fit a decent rear hugger, extended front guard, radiator screen, and rear luggage rack for those who like to camp and take the kitchen sink with them.
 
• Keep it light!
 
 
No doubt these things would cost. As attractive as the Tracer pricing seems to be on most markets (and it’s [em]very [/em]attractive and super competitive here in Oz, given the included hard panniers), Yamaha has already built an expectation among punters that very low pricing goes hand-in-hand with the MT-09 and its derivatives.
 
It might be a hard but necessary decision to price the mooted tourer at (say) $2000 more than currently. So it might then be necessary to call the mooted bike something else – say a Triple Teneré, or some such thing…
 
That’s my two-bob’s worth, as we say: what are your thoughts on a possible future dedicated and well-focussed touring version of the Tracer?
 
L of S
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[wessie]

Well, the FJR1300 has been a great bike but IIRC it has had 4 significant updates in its lifespan. One could argue the engine in particular has reached the end of its development cycle. Other parts of the package remain current such as the ADVICS ABS & TCS system, the shaft drive and the User Interface we have on the Tracer.
 
What I think is essential in any serious touring bike is shaft drive. I think the current MT09 engine is too small to compete with other serious tourers where 1200cc twins, 1600cc sixes and 1400cc inline fours are in top of the range bikes.
 
If you look at the way the MT09 engine is fitted to the bike, slanted forward, it is not a huge leap to add another 3 cylinders at the rear to make a V6. Now, that would give you a fantastic unit to make a touring bike. Of course, rather than making your bargain basement sofa, you would be making a bike to compete with the K1600GTL and be priced at 15-20 thousand UK pounds. I want one.

[root]

[strong]An MT-09 (FZ-09)-based 100% tourer…? [/strong]
Yamaha is already doing creative things using the original MT-09/ FZ-09 sports-bike as the base.
 
The MT-09/ FJ-09 Tracer sports-tourer motorcycle is the latest iteration of this development, but almost everyone, both here and in the motorcycling press, says it is very much more sport-oriented than touring. If you will – the child of the mad MT-09 sports bike with a great-grandfather Teneré lurking somewhere in the background.
 
So I cannot help wondering if (? when) Yamaha might take the next step by using the Tracer platform to develop a real, focussed tourer, as opposed to a sport (90%)-tourer (10%) as in the Tracer. In fact, I’d be very surprised if something along these dedicated-tourer lines isn’t already under development at Yamaha.
 
So what I’d like to see is as follows:
 
• Abandon all faux off-road pretensions – forget smaller front wheel, beak, bash-plate, etc. Design it around purely tarmac use for extended touring in comfort.
 

I don't think there ever were any off-road pretensions by Yamaha for the FJ-09 / Tracer. All off-road pretensions I've seen are from media guys trying to compare it to bikes that already exist. The closest ones they can compare it to are marketed for off-road even though they don't really do that great of a job of off-road. This is not a fair assessment.  Yamaha is almost creating a new class of bike with the FJ-09 or at least bringing back the "standard" bike in a much more modern way.
 

 
• More compliant and better quality suspension to enable real long-distance tarmac touring in comfort.

 
The suspension is fine for many people but they do have a history of releasing an ES (electronic suspension) version in both the FJR and Ténéré for $1,000+ more.  That's not out of the realm of possibilities for a future release.
 

• Put any cost-savings towards an efficient cruise control via the existing ECU.

I don't see anywhere you have suggested to reduce the cost yet but I will agree cruise control should be on any modern bike marketed for any type of touring.

• Keep ABS and maybe TC.

Agreed.  Don't see how this changes anything.
 

• Increase tank capacity by a minimum of (say) 2L.

200 miles is not enough?  2L would get you an extra 20-25 miles.  Seems rather arbitrary to me.  Sure, I'd like more range, but after 100-150 miles or so, I'm going to want to get off and stretch anyway.  Fueling up is a nice excuse to do that.

• Install a more effective touring screen, adjustable without tools and possibly while riding.

The screen could be much better, but it seems this can be fixed for under $150. Given no one windscreen works for everyone, I'm ok conceding they went cheap on the windscreen.  If I had a wish on the windscreen is that they design the handguards so they wouldn't interfere with nearly all previous aftermarket windscreens, but I like the look of the handguards so well, I'm willing to overlook this.  I like the form so much, I'll figure out the function that will work for me.  YMMV
 

 
• Gear the bike more favourably towards unstressed cruising and better fuel efficiency – make 6th gear an overdrive (say, at 100kph/ 60mph = <3500rpm).

44 mpg is up there for any full dressed touring machine.  Some are better, some are worse.  I can't say this is really much of a negative on this bike for me.  I enjoy the 6th gear power to get around people enough that I wouldn't want to give that up for a couple mpg, which is all you would really get by changing the gearing.  In a car, I won't worry about driving along next to a truck on a interstate.  On a bike, there's no way I'm staying next to a truck for any longer than absolutely necessary.  They just can't see you next to them.  I appreciate the power in 6th to get by a truck quickly.  If you don't agree, you can always change the sprocket out and get the efficiency you desire.  That's one of the advantages of a chain drive.
 

 
• Keep the hard panniers as a standard fitment and increase capacity to a minimum of (say) 30L each (up from ~20L each).

FJR unpainted bags fit the stock fitments and are your suggested 30L.  They are about the same price too.  In my opinion, they look better than the city bags anyway.  I'm not buying the city bags, I'm buying the FJR bags instead.  Therefore, my bike will have 30L bags.  It's kinda nice people have the option for 20L bags if they want them though.  I could see wanting the back end to be more narrow if I could lane split.  Here in Indiana where you absolutely will get ran off the road by an angry cager, then ticketed (or worse) by the police for lane splitting, I'd rather the luggage capacity than the narrow back end.  Nice to have the choice though.
 

 
• As standard fit a decent rear hugger, extended front guard, radiator screen, and rear luggage rack for those who like to camp and take the kitchen sink with them.

Rear luggage rack and luggage is a simple bolt on using OEM parts.  I'd prefer to be able to choose which one works for me anyway.  Rear hugger, front guard and radiator screen all could be better, but there are inexpensive aftermarket fixes for all these if you choose. 
 

 
• Keep it light!

So you want Yamaha to add all these things to the bike but ignore the laws of physics. Got it.
 

 
 
No doubt these things would cost. As attractive as the Tracer pricing seems to be on most markets (and it’s [em]very [/em]attractive and super competitive here in Oz, given the included hard panniers), Yamaha has already built an expectation among punters that very low pricing goes hand-in-hand with the MT-09 and its derivatives.
 
It might be a hard but necessary decision to price the mooted tourer at (say) $2000 more than currently. So it might then be necessary to call the mooted bike something else – say a Triple Teneré, or some such thing…
 
That’s my two-bob’s worth, as we say: what are your thoughts on a possible future dedicated and well-focussed touring version of the Tracer?
 
L of S

 
I'm quite happy they are giving me the choice of which items to add.  It's much easier to add things to the bike than take weight away.  Your post, to me anyway, reads more like a to do list of farkles you'd like to add to your bike that a request for an new model. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get most or all these added for near your suggested price increase of $2000. I don't need or want all those items on my bike so I'm pretty happy they released the bike they did and saved me the $2000 so I could do the upgrades that fit me best.  I truly think this is their only MT-09 / FJ-09 touring bike unless they sell a package deal similar to the the way Suzuki does with the v strom vs v strom adventure.  Same bike, except it comes with some farkles already added.  They may go the Tiger XR vs XRX and add some functionality to the ECU but the FJ already is pretty full featured except for cruise control.  Doesn't mean they won't do a next gen with cruise control or beefier suspension to handle more weight.  There is no real precedent for Yamaha releasing things the way v-stroms or Tigers are marketed so even that would surprise me some.  There is precedent in both the Ténéré and the FJR to have an ES model for electronic suspension though.  This could be a very real possibility.  From what I can tell, not much changes other than the suspension.  It would just be a FJ-09 ES or MT-09 Tracer ES.  The next MT-09 platform bike I see on the horizon is the baby Ténéré.  The MT-09 Ténéré in most of the world but WR-09 or TT-09 or YZ-09 or FT-09 in the US just to make things more confusing.  I think the FJ competes a lot with the Tiger 800 which has a on road and off road version, but even the on road Tiger is lightly marketed for off-road.  Only time will tell what Yamaha does with new models.  I would not be surprised at all by an FJ-09 ES where the only change is suspension or a Triple Ténéré.  I think cruise will be added to a future model year of the FJ-09.  I would be extremely surprised by something between an FJ-09 and a FJR1300 built on the MT-09 platform as you are suggesting above.
 
 
 

[jimf]

I think the current MT09 engine is too small to compete with other serious tourers where 1200cc twins, 1600cc sixes and 1400cc inline fours are in top of the range bikes.

 
Oh, I dunno, it doesn't have the torque of the BMW 1200 boxer, but it has a sizable fraction of it and all of the power. Maybe more to the point it compares quite favorably to many touring bikes from 15 years ago. We've seen other midsize bikes do fine as tourers, e.g. the 1991-2001 VFR 750/800 (down on both torque and power to the FJ-09). Heck, the F800GS is a pretty fine tourer. If the FJ-09 is lacking something in terms of touring I think it's chassis, luggage, wind protection and cruise control ... not motor.
 

If you look at the way the MT09 engine is fitted to the bike, slanted forward, it is not a huge leap to add another 3 cylinders at the rear to make a V6. Now, that would give you a fantastic unit to make a touring bike.

 
The problem with that is the packaging would be too big. If mounted transversely the second bank of cylinders will be right between your legs -- too wide. A V4 (like the VFR) is about as wide as you want to go in that orientation. If mounted longitudinally then the heads of the rearmost cylinders would interfere with your knees unless the reach to the bars was pretty long. That's why the Gold Wing uses a boxer 6, and the Motus (once it's really shipping) a V4.
 

[johan]

[strong]An MT-09 (FZ-09)-based 100% tourer…? [/strong]
Yamaha is already doing creative things using the original MT-09/ FZ-09 sports-bike as the base.
 
The MT-09/ FJ-09 Tracer sports-tourer motorcycle is the latest iteration of this development, but almost everyone, both here and in the motorcycling press, says it is very much more sport-oriented than touring. If you will – the child of the mad MT-09 sports bike with a great-grandfather Teneré lurking somewhere in the background.
 
So I cannot help wondering if (? when) Yamaha might take the next step by using the Tracer platform to develop a real, focussed tourer, as opposed to a sport (90%)-tourer (10%) as in the Tracer. In fact, I’d be very surprised if something along these dedicated-tourer lines isn’t already under development at Yamaha.
 
So what I’d like to see is as follows:
 
• Abandon all faux off-road pretensions – forget smaller front wheel, beak, bash-plate, etc. Design it around purely tarmac use for extended touring in comfort.
 
• More compliant and better quality suspension to enable real long-distance tarmac touring in comfort.
 
• Quality seat, adjustable for height.
 
• Ditch the three engine modes in favour of one well-sorted touring mode, or at most one ‘normal’ and one ‘rain’ mode, if you must.
 
• Put any cost-savings towards an efficient cruise control via the existing ECU.
 
• Keep ABS and maybe TC.
 
• Increase tank capacity by a minimum of (say) 2L.
 
• Install a more effective touring screen, adjustable without tools and possibly while riding.
 
• Gear the bike more favourably towards unstressed cruising and better fuel efficiency – make 6th gear an overdrive (say, at 100kph/ 60mph = <3500rpm).
 
• Keep the hard panniers as a standard fitment and increase capacity to a minimum of (say) 30L each (up from ~20L each).
 
• As standard fit a decent rear hugger, extended front guard, radiator screen, and rear luggage rack for those who like to camp and take the kitchen sink with them.
 
• Keep it light!
 
 
No doubt these things would cost. As attractive as the Tracer pricing seems to be on most markets (and it’s [em]very [/em]attractive and super competitive here in Oz, given the included hard panniers), Yamaha has already built an expectation among punters that very low pricing goes hand-in-hand with the MT-09 and its derivatives.
 
It might be a hard but necessary decision to price the mooted tourer at (say) $2000 more than currently. So it might then be necessary to call the mooted bike something else – say a Triple Teneré, or some such thing…
 
That’s my two-bob’s worth, as we say: what are your thoughts on a possible future dedicated and well-focussed touring version of the Tracer?
 
L of S
 
 
 
 
 
 

I wonder if you just specced a Kawasaki Z1000SX? 

[wessie]

I looked a the Z1000SX before the Super Tenere. Great bike except my knees did not like the peg position. Not sure it has cruise control, a longer tank range and 30 litre panniers. I think it would be more sports than what LoA is imagining.
 
I think the Triumph Sprint ST is the closest - 31l panniers, 20 L tank, Showa cartridge forks, £9200 price.
 
In fact, looking at the spec, I'm wondering why I didn't test ride one, then I remembered the reliability problems and indifferent experience I and others have had with the local dealer...

[aussietracer]

Considering I've toured on a Hyogt650r it'd have to be stupidly special to get me out of the "anything can be ridden on X" mindset.