justplainbill Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 I'm in the process of installing the Race Tech valves in the front forks. Also 0.95 springs. Have to say the instructions from Race Tech are not for the amateur garage jockey. i've been working on machines for many years. Also did a Race Tech fork job on my F800ST without problems. But this is my first adventure inside an upside down fork. So I have things apart and have the cartridges assembly on the bench. I assume the valving is inside this, but it doesn't want to come apart. I've put some considerable force on things and nothing budges. Don't want to damage anything, so allow me to ask for advice on how to get the cartridge apart. In reading the ULEWZ thread on the Adrian kit, it looks like they supply the entire cartridge assembly. So how does one go about getting inside this thing? Any pics or description available? Thanks for any assistance. I've never worked on USD forks either and am considering Racetech parts, so I checked the service manual for info on taking the "cartridge" apart. The manual doesn't mention or show either a cartridge or shim stack. The on-line parts fiche shows "Cylinder Comp - front fork" called "damper rod assembly 1 & 2" in the service manual (I assume they are the "cartridges"). Whatever is inside those assemblies is not listed in the parts list, so evidently Yamaha doesn't intend for us or even their own mechanics to work on them (other than remove and replace). Next stop; YouTube. Some videos for Racetech installation on dirt bikes but I couldn't find anything for upside down forks. Did find this Traxxion Dynamics' review of DIY Gold Valve kit installations which is not encouraging. Of course they would only see the failed shade tree installations, not the ones that work well. But their point that it's better to have it done right than risk the consequences to man and machine, makes sense. If you can't get better information than what I found, maybe you should consider having them installed by Racetech or a competent suspension shop - or returning the Gold Valves and using the springs (can't go wrong with those). Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaintstoppin Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Bill, You have found the same as me. The service manual doesn't help, and RaceTech doesn't seem interested in putting proper instructions together. Seems to me the valves should have been assembled as they are in regular forks. I have done the old style forks before and they are pretty simple as shown in the videos you mention (valves pre assembled and tuned to the application). But no info on what's inside our upside down forks. Pretty discouraging. I'll go out now and try again. Will post results. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Bob- can you post a picture or link to exactly what parts the kit includes? Might be able to help, not sure exactly what you are having difficulty with. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaintstoppin Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Skip.. I'm not a suspension dood so my vocabulary might not be right. But, here is a pic of the right fork 'cartridge.'. I need to get it apart to replace the original damper valves with the RaceTech units (which I have to build up the shim packs etc.) Anyway, I have put considerable force on the two ends of this without getting anything to thread off. I assume they are threaded on? These parts are not real robust, but my next step is going to be heat. The RaceTech instructions warn about going easy on the torque of all fasteners in here, but Yamaha seems to be in the tighter is bette mode. Hopefully, once I get inside this 'cartridge', the valve assembly will make some sense. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justplainbill Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Maybe the reason Race Tech doesn't provide good instructions is they sell a book by RT founder Paul Thede and Lee Parks titled: Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible - that does provide such instructions (Project 2 is a step by step description taking down standard cartridge USD forks and installing GV's.) It's available to download as an E-Book, either from a reputable seller such as Amazon or free from pirates. Or hardcopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwest Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Even the bible would not tell you how to perform the install on every different application. They used to have at the top of the instruction sheet a Caution if you are not familiar how to perform this work contact Race Tech or a Suspension tech. Race Tech provides generic instructions as the product covers several different applications. On the cartridge you have in the pic the top is actually the bottom and just run some heat around the tube and using a wrench the compression assembly will come out. Don't go overboard on the heat as there is a o-ring on the piston. Any questions shoot me a PM as I used to be a tech for Race Tech so I would say I know the product line pretty darn well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaintstoppin Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Thanks norwest. Just to confirm, the top has the compression valve inside? I assume the bottom plug will have the compression valve on it? Is that right? I was just a bit nervous about putting heat or much force on this parts as they are not overly sturdy., I'm used to working on gearboxes that weigh as much as the whole bike. So I just wanted a little assurance before diving in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 there is a shet load of locktite on the protruding AL holder so heat is necessary. It's also soft aluminum so will easily deform so the wider the wrench the better. Wrap a sopping wet paper towel around the tube where the holes are to keep the heat localized so you don't burn the O-ring. I use a propane torch and give it a few seconds of love. You should get tendrils of white smoke. Since both ends are threaded (M22x1.0) it's possible to spin off the other end. I use a spring holder http://www.traxxion.com/Fork-Spring-Compressor-Kit-4017/ in the holes to keep the tube from rotating on me while I work the base out. Even my 6" lathe chuck doesn't grip hard enough. Hit it with the heat, let it 'stew' a little, try, hit it with more heat, try, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwest Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 The pic is upside down on how it actually is in the fork, But the end with the 4 holes is the compression assembly side and the rebound valve is attached to the damping rod that slides in and out. To get the rod out remove the hydraulic bottom out assembly which is not shown in the pic. It has the rubber bumper under it and you just need to unscrew it and then there are two half clips, remove those and pull everything off the top and the rod will slide out of the bottom and expose the rebound valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 the reason they don't provide instructions is 1) only licensed professionals should do the work, 2) that's how they make their money. Now obviously #1 is subject to interpretation and debate and there's no reason any tom, dick and harry can't do it if they have some tools and background. But considering the WTF moments I've had taking apart previously serviced forks, some people are really not too bright when it comes to putting things back in the order they came out. Not pointing fingers at anyone here, mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 To get the rod out remove the hydraulic bottom out assembly which is not shown in the pic. It has the rubber bumper under it and you just need to unscrew it and then there are two half clips, remove those and pull everything off the top and the rod will slide out of the bottom and expose the rebound valve. Even my thin, bicycle cone wrenches aren't thin enough to fit in the flats. So I've resorted to filing down the 'lip' in order to get purchase. If you're just going to toss the fluid lock (not a bad idea IMO) then take it apart as described. Otherwise I've found it rather more convenient to use a cartridge holder (or round clamp jaws - http://www.racetech.com/page/id/70) to hold the big OD aluminum part and spin the main tube off. Carefully wiggle it off and you're left with the rod end with it's top-out spring and valve assembly. In either case both valves are straked so you'll need to touch them to a grinder or belt sander to shave down the end and the nut itself about 1/64-1/32". It's a M6x1.0 10mm nut. The RT kit is supposed to come with replacements. And I always chase the M22 threads before putting either end back together. But that's a $20 tap and I doubt you want to go there. A thread file is cheap though and recommended. Hit it with a blast of cleaner and locktite the bottom with some Blue. I use green on the top but frankly it's optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwest Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Different strokes different folks I guess, I remove the oil lock even if they are staked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaintstoppin Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Thanks guys for your comments. It's obvious that my caution was justified. I'm gonna dive in to this just because that's how I roll. Will take pics and report on how things go. You'll either have a good illustration I of why no one should think about doing this at home, or perhaps I'll actually get it done. The forks on my F800ST were the old damper rod style and that's what I expected to see in here. Live and learn ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I owe you a reply, Bob. But these pros have covered it all. The Race Tech bible has some good pictures of the methods and tricks they have told you. Good luck! Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'll be watching this with interest and trying to decide what I should do for my suspension upgrade. I am an old dirt biker with plenty of suspension experience, but getting too lazy to try re-valving myself. How does the Race Tech Gold Valve and re-spring / revalve in single fork compare to high end stuff like Ohlins cartridge in both forks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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