Looking for Smaller Second Bike

[Wintersdark]

Can't imagine a world where I'd rather an SV650 vs and MT07, to be honest, having ridden both extensively.   Very similar bikes, but the MT07 hits it's higher peak torque way faster, and it's sexier

Honestly, I feel an MT07 with an upgraded suspension is a more fun bike to ride than the Tracer 900 on anything other than longer trips - the only reason I went to the Tracer is because I'm physically too big for the MT07 (and SV650, for that matter) and I wanted something more comfortable and capable on road trips. 

Both SV and MT have issues with the stock suspension, though - kind of to be expected for budget bikes.  The CP2 is a freaking blast of an engine.  These days, though, depending on preferences and use case I'd also consider an R7 - same powertrain, but already upgraded suspension.  If you're into the aggressive sportbike riding posture anyways.

Personally, my second "smaller" bike is a Tenere 700... Gets me more agile in town riding and offroad riding too, and again with that glorious, torquey CP2... While still fitting my 6'4" frame. 

But, yeah, CP2 > the SV650's twin, hands down.  Fight me!  😈

[Jayzonk]

Can't really fight you on it because I haven't ridden an SV!  I did sit on an R7, though, so if you think the MT-07 feels small, the R7 is even tighter.  Great if you're 25 though.  

Your Tenere 700 has the same engine...is the fuel map the same?  I rode the MT-07 and can't say that I was a big fan of the motor either, but it was an old one, so who knows...

[duckie]

Gee upgrade the suspension on a Tracer and you will have fun also.

I really wish some riders lived close by just to show them what a properly setup Tracer GT can do even stock suspension.

This idea a Tracer cant handle tight twisty roads is bullshit and giving the Tracer a needlessly bad rep.

I just think most just dont know how to ride. 

 

[Jayzonk]

I tend to agree with you.  I really like my Tracer and I never hit an area of curves in the pavement and go "Gee, I wish I had something different to ride here...."   My thought was that it would be nice to just have a smaller runabout bike for going for a spin downtown or heading to work...something that I might leave on the street at night so that it's ready to go in the morning, that type of thing (I keep the Tracer inside 😃)

[Jayzonk]

You're right.  I'm looking at the barely used market, the no helicoils market, the no engine scrapes market, the no modifications market....

[Jayzonk]

7 hours ago, duckie said:

Gee upgrade the suspension on a Tracer and you will have fun also.

I really wish some riders lived close by just to show them what a properly setup Tracer GT can do even stock suspension.

This idea a Tracer cant handle tight twisty roads is bullshit and giving the Tracer a needlessly bad rep.

I just think most just dont know how to ride. 

 

How is your suspension set up? Stock?  

[duckie]

11 hours ago, Jayzonk said:

How is your suspension set up? Stock?  

The only thing not stock about the suspension is the tires. Im running Road 5

I also fall within the weight range of the springs. 
 

The shock is the weakest link cause it is non rebuildable as far as I know.   As the oil ages, the dampening is going. Fresh suspension oil makes a big difference. 
 

I have thought alot about upgrading. One question keeps coming up…how much am I really gaining over what I have for the money? Shock upgrade to one that is rebuildable is coming. And well, just cant do the shock only, so fork upgrade also.

Im doing this not because I have to order to make the bike work for me, but because I want too. Big difference. 

The biggest unknown when discussing suspension is the road conditions be ridden. Im guessing that some peoples upgraded suspension would not work very well on some of my favorite roads do to the condition of the roads. 
I have found that sweet spot where the suspension works well on alot of those roads without slowing me down and works very well on the good stuff.

It took time to find it. I would make a change and go out on the various roads to understand the effects of the change before I make another.

But I can feel the oil losing dampening. Changing just the fork oil will put it out of balance suspension wise.  Hence the need for a rebuildable shock.

But this is just me and what works for me. Ive learned a motorcycle “moving around” somewhat while ridding fast is normal and necessary….. even on the track.
 

 

[Jayzonk]

What is the weight range of the springs? And the rear shock?

[maximo]

On 3/13/2022 at 11:27 AM, Wintersdark said:

Can't imagine a world where I'd rather an SV650 vs and MT07, to be honest, having ridden both extensively.   Very similar bikes, but the MT07 hits it's higher peak torque way faster, and it's sexier

Honestly, I feel an MT07 with an upgraded suspension is a more fun bike to ride than the Tracer 900 on anything other than longer trips - the only reason I went to the Tracer is because I'm physically too big for the MT07 (and SV650, for that matter) and I wanted something more comfortable and capable on road trips. 

Both SV and MT have issues with the stock suspension, though - kind of to be expected for budget bikes.  The CP2 is a freaking blast of an engine.  These days, though, depending on preferences and use case I'd also consider an R7 - same powertrain, but already upgraded suspension.  If you're into the aggressive sportbike riding posture anyways.

Personally, my second "smaller" bike is a Tenere 700... Gets me more agile in town riding and offroad riding too, and again with that glorious, torquey CP2... While still fitting my 6'4" frame. 

But, yeah, CP2 > the SV650's twin, hands down.  Fight me!  😈

Preferences are so personal! I totally get your point here. At the same time, I arrive at a different conclusion re: the SV, but using the FJ as a proxy for the MT07, since I haven't ridden it. If the CP2 is similar to the CP3, I already don't like it. For me, and what value/enjoy out of a motorcycle, the CP3 has been an absolute miss. Its character doesn't fit my likes. I'm not saying it's a bad bike, I'm saying that for me it's not the best overall bike. 

[Jayzonk]

Using the FJ as a proxy for the MT07?  Really?  😅  You're talking about a 900cc triple in an upright, adventure style seating position with a touring windscreen versus a 700cc twin with a standard seating position and no fairing!  When bikes are this far apart, the whole "if A=B and B=C, then A=C" thing doesn't hold up!!  

As for not liking its "character", I'm not sure what you mean but it's the best do-it-all bike I've ever had, and the bike I feel the most confident riding.  

[PhotoAl]

My only complaint about the CP3 is you don't get a big rush of power at the top end.  Otherwise it's a fantastic engine.  I've had two hardcore sport bikes, a 2012 CBR600RR and a 2014 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 ABS.  Both were great bikes and well set up from the factory.  Either would be a great track day bike.  I rode both of them to work pretty much every day.  In the rain and cold and hot and sunshine.  Loved riding them but would not describe either as something I'd jump on and take for a spin to the grocery store.

OP is looking for a fun bike that is easier and more nimble than the FJ09/Tracer.  I could see the Triumph 660 as it sat nicely.  For a put fun bike that I wasn't going to ride far but would be easy to jump on I'd suggest an Indian.  Yup Indian FTR!  Did a demo ride on one and it was a blast to ride, reminded me of a big scooter.  Easy to balance even at stops and traffic lights, good power and turned well.  When I traded for the Tracer 900 GT, it was a good thing I was 2,000 miles from home and already had a deal lined up.  On the floor were an Aftica Twin and two Indian FTRs.  Both were so tempting but I had all my gear and stuff and needed to get it home.   Hummm wonder if I could have shipped it UPS and ridden the two day home with just the clothes I had ......  Indian Scout is another bike I would look at for a fun easy alternative.  Not a nimble and flickable as the FTR but an easy ride.  I've got two scooters and for the quick local trips I'll jump on a scooter in a heartbeat.  

[Matt P]

My other bike is a heavy Vulcan 1700 and it offers a much different ride than my FJ-09. The FJ is so light I can scoot it around the garage on it's center stand. SV is an awesome bike and you will be happy on it. Not a wrong answer for this question. Have fun!

[Wintersdark]

On 3/13/2022 at 2:34 PM, duckie said:

Gee upgrade the suspension on a Tracer and you will have fun also.

I really wish some riders lived close by just to show them what a properly setup Tracer GT can do even stock suspension.

This idea a Tracer cant handle tight twisty roads is bullshit and giving the Tracer a needlessly bad rep.

I just think most just dont know how to ride. 

 

It's not about twisties.  The Tracer is excellent in twisties. 

Its about in town riding on narrow, low speed streets with lots of sharp 90 degree turns - a smaller, lighter, less powerful bike is a lot more enjoyable there.  It's not a failing of the Tracer by any means.  But when you're booting around town in an area where you physically can't exceed 50kph and need to deal with tight traffic, smaller bikes (and even scooters) are objectively superior.  

[Wintersdark]

3 hours ago, maximo said:

Preferences are so personal! I totally get your point here. At the same time, I arrive at a different conclusion re: the SV, but using the FJ as a proxy for the MT07, since I haven't ridden it. If the CP2 is similar to the CP3, I already don't like it. For me, and what value/enjoy out of a motorcycle, the CP3 has been an absolute miss. Its character doesn't fit my likes. I'm not saying it's a bad bike, I'm saying that for me it's not the best overall bike. 

The CP2 is not like the CP3.  I actually like the CP2 more for most circumstances.  My Tracer is a better bike than my MT07 was (and definitely better than my buddies old SV650) but it's actually less fun to ride.  Much more comfortable and decidedly superior on longer trips, with awesome features the MT07 couldn't dream of...

But the MT07 straight up power wheelies in 1st to 3rd, even with my 300lb ass on it.  The low end torque is WAY better, where up to around 4500rpm the CP3 is actually kind of "meh".  The shorter wheelbase and loss of some 60lbs is substantial too. 

Its slower, but *feels* faster.

Basically, think of the SV650 vs FJ09 differences, but go a bit further. 

 

 

Edit: I should note in case it's not clear, my first post above was pretty tongue in cheek; what people look for in bikes varies dramatically and personal preferences are just that.

Its just that people who prefer SV650's are wrong is all.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Wintersdark

[Wintersdark]

On 3/13/2022 at 1:55 PM, Jayzonk said:

Can't really fight you on it because I haven't ridden an SV!  I did sit on an R7, though, so if you think the MT-07 feels small, the R7 is even tighter.  Great if you're 25 though.  

Your Tenere 700 has the same engine...is the fuel map the same?  I rode the MT-07 and can't say that I was a big fan of the motor either, but it was an old one, so who knows...

The T7 is mapped and geared a bit differently, as its intended for a different purpose.  Shorter gearing, and the countershaft sprocket is positioned differently relative to the swingarm pivot which provides substantial antisquat which gives it a surprisingly different feel.  There's more of a *push* because when you launch, the rear noticeably stands up. 

But it's got the same oddles of low end torque and being geared shorter tractors really well.  Drop the clutch in first at zero throttle, and it'll chug uphill effortlessly without jerking.  

It lacks some of the wildness a good tuned MT07 has (mine had a black widow exhaust, pulled snorkel, and 2wdw tune) but more than makes up for it in "I can go anywhere!" fun.  

And yeah, I could never have an R7.  No chance.  Same with a lot of sportbikes, even an R1 - they're just too small for me to be comfortable.  I could use one as a track bike for sure, but not as a daily rider.