coyotechris Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 I take along time choosing my motorcycles. I took only 6 months to pick my leftover '14 FJR but I took over a year to pick my '10 Honda NT700V, both of which I still have and am glad I do. I do feel like I am missing out on some adventure type touring. Nothing drastic...just riding to some national forests and riding up those kinds of dirt/gravel roads to campsites. Something I dont feel comfortable doing with heavy touring bikes and heavy touring loads. I am looking at the Triumph Tiger 800 XRx (I rode an XC..smooth engine with lots of power, good clutch and tranny, and the XR has cruise control) BMW F700GS (rode a GT...it has lots of flaws that the F700 addresses so that's not a fair comparo) , Suzuki V-strom (no test ride yet) , and the FJ. I dont need lots of power, I like smoothness, low speed handling, and light weight. Cycle World did a comparo with the FJ and the Versys 1000 lt and said the FJ is buzzy. Revzilla says the FJ is smooth as silk so a test ride is in order. Personally, I doubt if the FJ and BMW are going to get cruise control in '18 although there are rumors that the Triumph is going to get 75 more ccs and an electric windscreen. So my question to you folks is this. Leaving price out of it, and with your knowledge of some or all of these bikes, why would you or WOULDNT you buy any of them if you didnt have one and you had all four lined up in front of you? A perfect bike for me would be under 500 lbs, well mannered, smooth engine and transmission and clutch, good low speed handling, minor off road ability, cruise control (I have used throttle locks for the last 40 years and they do work) and ride by wire so I can choose throttle response. I dont think there is a perfect bike but at least center stands, luggage racks, panniers, crash bars and wind screens seem to be available for all of these bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kernowjim Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 the best bike for you based on your list of requirements is the Triumph Tiger 800 XCX or XCA. I say the XC (spoked wheel) versions because the 21" front wheel has better low speed maneuverability than the 19" cast wheel versions - other than that the bikes are identical. I chose the FJ (called the MT09 Tracer in Europe) for the sheer performance and handling. The Tiger 800 is a refined bike that is very smooth (some vibrations through the grips though) and is perfect for long distance riding but it is rather bland when ridden back to back with the FJ-09 and the 800cc engine is not anywhere near as powerful as the Yamaha, the 850cc Yamaha engine is a revelation for it's size. The FJ, like you say, is buzzy - it's a sports bike masquerading as a sports tourer but it's a large super-moto in my opinion. You can ride very long distances but you can also ride a long way on an R1, that doesn't mean there aren't better options out there. The buzz is mostly between 5000 and 6500rpm and on full throttle up through the rev range, it definitely makes it feel alive! I came from the Triumph Explorer 1215 and they are like night and day - both very different bikes with skills in different areas. So having recently ridden both bikes and based on your needs, the Tiger 800 wins. It's a great bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member keithu Posted August 28, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted August 28, 2017 I rented a Tiger 800 XRX in SoCal earlier this year and spent a weekend canyon carving on it. If you want to do any off roading the Tiger is probably the better choice. The FJ-09 is purely a street bike. And the Tiger has cruise control. For street riding the FJ-09 is a better bike in every way except for cruise. The motors aren't very different on paper, but after owning the FJ I found the Tiger to be truly yawn inspiring. I don't need a super powerful motorcycle either - my last bike was a Triumph TT600 - but the FJ motor is darn good fun. Other comments: Tiger handling was just okay and the cornering clearance isn't great. I was grinding so much metal even at rental bike pace that I thought I was on a cruiser. Tiger clutch pull is heavier that the FJ. My wrist was aching after 100 miles of twisties. This offsets the very minor buzz of the FJ. If you need to go off road, get the Tiger. But if you want the better street bike, buy the FJ and don't look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 I rented a Tiger 800 XRX in SoCal earlier this year and spent a weekend canyon carving on it. If you want to do any off roading the Tiger is probably the better choice. The FJ-09 is purely a street bike. And the Tiger has cruise control. For street riding the FJ-09 is a better bike in every way except for cruise. The motors aren't very different on paper, but after owning the FJ I found the Tiger to be truly yawn inspiring. I don't need a super powerful motorcycle either - my last bike was a Triumph TT600 - but the FJ motor is darn good fun. Other comments: Tiger handling was just okay and the cornering clearance isn't great. I was grinding so much metal even at rental bike pace that I thought I was on a cruiser. Tiger clutch pull is heavier that the FJ. My wrist was aching after 100 miles of twisties. This offsets the very minor buzz of the FJ. If you need to go off road, get the Tiger. But if you want the better street bike, buy the FJ and don't look back. Thanks! Very helpful. My opinion of the XC was it was too tall and I am 6 ft 2 inches tall. and I hate wire wheels, especially with tube tires. My idea of off roading is graded forest service roads you would take a compact car down with no problem. In the Big Horn Mts of Wyoming, there are pleanty of these but some also go up and down over a short distance and can be terrifying when wet on a fully loaded touring bike. Doable on my Kawasaki Concours C10 when I was 10 years younger but not now. I am in pretty good shape for a 68 year old but time takes its toll on balance and strength. I would say the Tiger XRx is still in the running. I have seen the torque and power curves for the FJ superimposed on the Tiger engine's curves and I am amazed there is that much differnece. When I ripped open the throttle of the XC at 65 mph in sixth gear, it just plain took off like a rocket. But graphs dont lie. I still think I need to ride the FJ demo if I can find one. Anyone have a V-strom or BMW F700GS they would like to comment on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 Do others agree that the bigger front wheel handles better at slow speeds? The Triumph and BMW dealers are telling me the opposite. The BMW dealer said I would be happier on the F700 than the F800 and after sitting on the F800 I think he is right. The Triumph dealer said I would be happier on the XRx than the XC for the same reason. 500 miles to the Big Horns, 10 miles of graded gravel road in the Big Horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 Trying out the image insertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 14 years ago forest service roads were no problem, even with a top heavy beast like the Connie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 Which ever way I go, my packing is gonna have to go on a diet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinsv Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I've rode a Tiger with the 21" front wheel and when turning it seems a lot slower and just weird to me after the FJ. If you want to do some dirt the Tiger is it, but for fun on the street the FJ hands down in my opinion. I also found the Tiger engine boring, but much smoother compared to the Yamaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 OK, that's good to know. In my experience, a smaller wheel handles better at slow speeds. I was impressed by the Tiger's engine. No ill manners, lots of power even at a 65 mph roll on in 6th. I still think I need to find an FJ to ride. As I age, low speed handling becomes more important than raw power, but my FJR has lots of power but is very docile in most of its envelope. No bad habits above 5 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Do others agree that the bigger front wheel handles better at slow speeds? The Triumph and BMW dealers are telling me the opposite. The BMW dealer said I would be happier on the F700 than the F800 and after sitting on the F800 I think he is right. The Triumph dealer said I would be happier on the XRx than the XC for the same reason. 500 miles to the Big Horns, 10 miles of graded gravel road in the Big Horns. MSF course type lower speeds with tight turns on smooth pavement, definitely smaller wheel is better for low speed. Big wheel is more stable in rough terrain. It will roll over bumps, won't fall into holes or get kicked around as much, but it won't turn as tight. My concern with using the FJ for off road is not the wheel size as much as all the aluminum bits on the bottom. There's been several instances of losing an oil pan due to something as simple as a pot hole. Even with relatively tame off road stuff, you're much more likely to scrape bottom and the FJ just doesn't handle that well at all. Many older street bikes may have been fine with stronger bits underneath and a better protected oil pan, but the Yamaha CP3/09 platform has a history of a delicate oil pan. It's a street bike, through and through. That's not to say you can't do it, just to say something like a Tiger is better suited for the use case you are describing IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotechris Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 We agree. I know that all the true adventure bikes have bigger front wheels for the reasons you state. I have seen the vids on Youtube about the vulnribility of the FJ's Oil plug and pan section and thankfully some folks make bash plates. Thanks in part to this forum I am gravitating away from the FJ (for now) for my next bike but I still think it would make a great street bike to replace my FJR as I travel into my 70s. (BTW the dealer in Washington who has the 2015 new for $7500 wants about $1000 in transportation, setup, and paperwork fees. I asked him over email if he would consider doing TSB M2016-004 preemptively but no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kernowjim Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Just be aware that the FJ is not an off road bike in any shape or form - in fact it's not a touring bike either. It's a sports bike on stilts, a supermoto. The Tiger 800 will suit off road and long distance touring better but isn't anywhere near as fast or as agile as the FJ-09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owle Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Do others agree that the bigger front wheel handles better at slow speeds? The Triumph and BMW dealers are telling me the opposite. The BMW dealer said I would be happier on the F700 than the F800 and after sitting on the F800 I think he is right. The Triumph dealer said I would be happier on the XRx than the XC for the same reason. 500 miles to the Big Horns, 10 miles of graded gravel road in the Big Horns. No don't agree, the dealers are correct ..... i ride off road, an Africa Twin (the old one) and a KTM 690, the 21" wheel helps in the loose stuff but is a lot more vague and slower to turn on road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted August 31, 2017 Supporting Member Share Posted August 31, 2017 Just be aware that the FJ is not an off road bike in any shape or formYeah, I'm not sure why the terms "adventure bike", offroad oriented" and FJ09 are ever spoken in the same sentence. The FJ was never designed, engineered or marketed as "adventure", or advertised to have ANY dirt-type capabilities. Sure you can put offroad type tires on it and ride it on well maintained gravel roads, but why not look into an actual bike that was designed from the start as dirt oriented/capable? Super Tenere?, Africa Twin?, VStrom? ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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