Did anyone consider the VFR?

[spiff]

I am wondering whether anyone cross-shopped the 2014 VFR800 when they were shopping for their FJ-09, and what made you choose your FJ-09 over the VFR?
 
I am currently considering a new bike and have narrowed it down to either the FJ-09 or the VFR800 (with the Ninja 1000 a distant third) and I can't decide between them.
 
 

[scuff]

Hi Spiff
Welcome to the forum. You may or may not have seen this...
 
[video src=http://youtu.be/bvfwgnwpA34]
 

[wessie]

FJ is cheaper, lighter and has a more upright riding position to the others. These were all factors for me.
 
I test rode a Z1000SX as we call the Ninja and owned a 1994 VFR750. I never liked any of the VFR800s as I feel they never really improved on the olde VFR750s, just made it more complex for no real gain. The Ninja looks a great choice on paper and rode well, but the ergonomics didn't suit my wonky knee.

[lapuree]

I'm actually coming from a 2014 VFR (before that: Street Triple for 5 years, 70 000kms): nice but much heavier, the body position is a bit tiring (the 2014 model, RC79, is putting even more weight on your wrists than the previous versions) and I'm not a big fan of 4 cylinders engines; on the VFR, it's really boring before the Vtec comes into action (6700 rpm). And then, you're in serious trouble with the law...
Overall build quality is really better on the VFR though, no cheap plastics there, very nice dashboard too.
One more thing: the VFR is loosing value very quickly apparently, I had to lower the price a lot to get some offers. I think I negociated it fairly when I bougth it new: 13k€ for the bike+alarm+touring kit+rear hugger+whatevertheymakeyoupayforstartingitup, and I'm down to selling it for a little over 10k after just 10 months.

[fattraxx]

Insurance was the deciding factor for me. I looked at the VFR and ninja 1000 also. VFR ins was 3 times as much and NInja 1000 was 4 times as much per year than the FJ09. All bikes were within $500 on the dealerships floor.

[lapuree]

Insurance was the deciding factor for me. I looked at the VFR and ninja 1000 also. VFR ins was 3 times as much and NInja 1000 was 4 times as much per year than the FJ09. All bikes were within $500 on the dealerships floor.

That's pretty interesting because in France it's the contrary: the FJ09 is surprisingly more expensive than the VFR. I'm paying ~900€/year for the VFR (all options, Paris...) and can't find anything below 1000€ for the FJ09.
Insurance people are just plain stupid in France though: it looks like their main criteria is the cylinder capacity, so the FJ09 being 849cc, it's more expensive than the VFR's 800cc.

[wessie]

Insurance was the deciding factor for me. I looked at the VFR and ninja 1000 also. VFR ins was 3 times as much and NInja 1000 was 4 times as much per year than the FJ09. All bikes were within $500 on the dealerships floor.

That's pretty interesting because in France it's the contrary: the FJ09 is surprisingly more expensive than the VFR. I'm paying ~900€/year for the VFR (all options, Paris...) and can't find anything below 1000€ for the FJ09.
Insurance people are just plain stupid in France though: it looks like their main criteria is the cylinder capacity, so the FJ09 being 849cc, it's more expensive than the VFR's 800cc.

The insurance market is more sensible in the UK. Power to weight ratio is used as well as the overall claims history of the bike. Each bike is put into one of 20 groups, with 20 the highest risk. That is then added to a rider's home postcode to give a theft risk. Finally the rider's age, experience, personal history of claims and convictions is then factored in to give an overall premium. The Tracer & my old XT1200Z are both in group 16, which makes sense as they have similar performance, except the Tracer has a nominally higher top speed. Insurance costs are very similar, being about £100 per year, for a 52 year old living in a low risk, suburban area. I'd pay closer to your 900 euros if I lived in inner London. 

[spiff]

Thanks for the great info guys. I am leaning toward the FJ-09 as it seems to be the better bike (lighter, more torque, faster, cheaper). The VFR however does look better. Personally I prefer the sport bike look over the ADV look, I wonder if there are any add-ons that would make the FJ-09 look less adv-ish. A belly-pan perhaps?

[wessie]

Thanks for the great info guys. I am leaning toward the FJ-09 as it seems to be the better bike (lighter, more torque, faster, cheaper). The VFR however does look better. Personally I prefer the sport bike look over the ADV look, I wonder if there are any add-ons that would make the FJ-09 look less adv-ish. A belly-pan perhaps?

 
If you have to choose from that list and want a sports bike that will tour then get the Kawasaki, in green. I'd have one like a shot, if I could get my knee to tolerate the riding position.

[jimf]

I am wondering whether anyone cross-shopped the 2014 VFR800 when they were shopping for their FJ-09, and what made you choose your FJ-09 over the VFR? 
I am currently considering a new bike and have narrowed it down to either the FJ-09 or the VFR800 (with the Ninja 1000 a distant third) and I can't decide between them.
 

I definitely looked at the VFR.  I was a huge fan of the VFR800 until the 2002 model year when they went VTEC and I was happen when Honda finally went back to the 800 from the 1200. 
Two big downsides to the 2015 VFR:
 
1. It's extremely expensive for what it is, several thousand dollars more than anything else I looked at.  I completely outfitted an FJ for less than a base VFR.
 
2. VTEC makes valve adjustments quite costly, and unnecessarily so since it provides little to no power benefit.  That's the biggest disappointment of the new model, they should have ditched VTEC.
 
The seating position is a lot different from the FJ, much more sporty.  I don't consider that a downside because it's not very extreme, although I prefer the FJ's fully upright position.  It's pretty heavy, too, although it carries the weight well.  It's pretty much a toss-up as to whether the V4 or I3 exhaust note is best. :-)
 
I also looked at the Versys 650 (the 1000 was too tall and wide for me) and the new VStroms (fit and finish was pretty awful, engine character on the 650 is really flat).
 
Prior to the FJ-09 hitting the streets I was expecting to buy a Street Triple R.  I love that motor (had it on my old Daytona).  The FJ-09 was a better complete package (available factory hard bags and other accoutrements rather than having to assemble it all aftermarket) and with an even better motor.
 
I didn't look at the new Tigers, which is something of a shame.  They're underpowered relative to the FJ but it's still a good motor and there's a lot to like about the electronics and suspension, which is much more sophisticated than the FJ.  I didn't look at them because the 2014-and-earlier Tiger was just too tall for me, but I'm not sure that that's still true of all of the 2015 models.  I probably would have bought the FJ anyway (did I mention the factory hard bags?) but I should have at least looked.
 
I likely would have been pretty happy with any of those, to be honest, but the FJ turned out to be The Most Fun Bike I've Ever Ridden.  That's not a huge list of bikes, but it covers a variety.  The more I ride it the more I want to ride it.

[panooch]

I am wondering whether anyone cross-shopped the 2014 VFR800 when they were shopping for their FJ-09, and what made you choose your FJ-09 over the VFR? 
I am currently considering a new bike and have narrowed it down to either the FJ-09 or the VFR800 (with the Ninja 1000 a distant third) and I can't decide between them.
 

The new VFR800 and FJ-09 are really different bikes. I think the FJ is a better fit for larger, taller folks and VFR for smaller ones though. Completely different ergonomics so take that into consideration. Do you like bent over or more upright positioning? You spend hours on hit so whats your preference for comfort? 
The FJ is much lighter on its feet. Feels even lighter then its posted weight of 462 lbs both pushing and riding. It is quick in the turns and the power band is hard to beat. The triple I think is very enjoyable power and probably going to be one of the best triples for reliability. It needs little shifting with grade or powering out of corners. I can stay in one gear with an occasional up or downshift in 30-40 miles of my favorite twisty roads. Maybe one now that the FJ is close to being broken in sufficiently. Yes the V4 engine and chassis is smoother and Honda transmissions are extremely smooth shifting IMO. I'm hoping the newness of the FJ will smooth out the shifting soon. The stock VFR suspension is OK. Different feel then the FJ-09. But ultimately, I think the FJ-09 handles better. I've purchased the FJ and really able to test it on my favorite roads. Short test ride on VFR was not enough time for determination but what I felt, prefer the FJ. Neither has compression adjustment stock. Just preload and damping. I think a Race Tech revalve and spring set up would be an adequate solution for the FJ as it almost turns itself. If I was taller with longer legs, I could position my knees better in the tank and turn the FJ with knees and foot pegs. It is very easy handling. Penske shocks I'm fond of and  will put one on the FJ when the stocker wears out. The front end on the FJ is light. I think a steering stabilizer is needed for high speed riding. VFR has more bent forward seating angle and offers more feel on the front end (I think, short test ride). If there was a way to completely change the ergonomics of the VFR, I'd still be riding one as I still own a 97. It's a wonderful motorcycle. But that's not possible. So to offer a sport handling bike, upright ergonomics, ABS which was not an option when I originally purchased mine, traction control and reliability, I'd pick the FJ-09 and of course I did. 2015 VFR being the same wet weight as the earlier 90's version @ 532 lbs vs 462 for the FJ-09, more valves which will be more expensive to adjust and full fairinged, I'd say the Honda and Yamaha are quite a bit different. Honda VFR being more touring oriented and looking like a sport bike and the Yamaha FJ-09 being I guess more adventure looking, kinda, but definitely more a sport oriented with an upright riding position. Thats whats unique about the FJ-09. Light, upright, fast and an absolute joy to ride.
 
Personally I like the open design as I do my own service work. I live in the heat four months of the year so open design is a benefit there also to me, if there is one.
 
So,
 
Weight goes to FJ-09
Handling goes to FJ-09
Comfort goes to FJ-09
Serviceability goes to FJ-09
Dash gauges goes to VFR
Self cancelling signals goes to VFR
Quick shifter option goes to VFR, though coming with ECU flash for FJ-09
Heated grips goes to VFR as std equipted (but big retail price difference)
Rear tire changes goes to VFR with single sided swing arm, drop the exhaust can (pretty easy)
Brakes, both radial, both ABS, both good. But having riden the FJ-09 more, it will be better with stainless lines I suspect. I would love a bit more on the rear for trail braking into corners at spirited speeds. Adequate though.
Shifting probably goes to VFR, so far with 850 ish miles on my FJ-09 it probably will smooth out
Power goes to FJ-09 with higher power specs, more torque and less weight.
Range looks to be close to a toss up so up to the rider (I got 50 MPG with 850 miles on the ODO std mode, high spirited, driving out of tight twisties and still within break in RPM range, some times) Still not sure if 5.2 or 5.6 gallons on VFR though
Weather protection goes to FJ-09. Not great but more of it. There will be few higher windscreen options for the VFR
400 lbs of payload I'd say goes to FJ-09 (not sure on VFR) forgot to ask
Warranty goes to VFR
Fuel goes to VFR as it runs on regular (I'd still use premium if I owned one) 3 valves per cylinder, eeeks.
Price goes to FJ-09
Seat height goes to VFR, but takes a spanner wrench to adjust (I'm 5' 6") 31 VFR vs 33" FJ-09, but once rollin, you can't get me off the FJ-09. No, I don't like stopping for fuel either.
Handlebar options will go to JF-09 once available. VFR and clip ons will be limited as they always have been
Cosmetics goes to FJ-09. It looks beoitcheon always. I'm not crazy about the new VFR800 after looking at it a bit. Reminds me of years back and newly aquainted desirables. Looks good at the time, not so good the next day.
 
 

[fanowater]

Great summary Panooch.
I looked at the VFR, but felt the riding position wasn't different enough from my Daytona (which has Helibars on it, a HUGE comfort improvement, and one inch lowered foot pegs) to give me the long distance sport tourer I wanted. Price, power to weight ratio and seating position are hands down better on the FJ.
 
Now I just need the darn thing to arrive (Saturday)

[panooch]

Great summary Panooch. I looked at the VFR, but felt the riding position wasn't different enough from my Daytona (which has Helibars on it, a HUGE comfort improvement, and one inch lowered foot pegs) to give me the long distance sport tourer I wanted. Price, power to weight ratio and seating position are hands down better on the FJ.
 
Now I just need the darn thing to arrive (Saturday)

For the price, std features and performance, I think Yamaha has done a really nice job with the FJ. Of course everybody here does. 
I put Heli bars on my VFR. It's still a very enjoyable motorcycle but the FJ is better. You're going to like it allot.
 

[keithu]

I did consider the VFR for about five seconds, but the value proposition turned me off. Also, the worst motorcycle I've ever owned (in terms of reliability) was a 1985 Interceptor. Around that same time my wife also had a Honda Accord that was a total POS.
 
I know, most people find Hondas to be very reliable, but even 25 years later I'm disinclined to buy another one.

[jimf]

I looked at the VFR, but felt the riding position wasn't different enough from my Daytona (which has Helibars on it, a HUGE comfort improvement, and one inch lowered foot pegs) to give me the long distance sport tourer I wanted. Price, power to weight ratio and seating position are hands down better on the FJ. 
Now I just need the darn thing to arrive (Saturday)

Oh, another convert from the Daytona?  I put Helibars on mine within a few days of bringing it home too, although I never touched the pegs.  Even beyond comfort, without the Helibars I literally couldn't see the road underneath the brow of the helmet.  I didn't do much to that bike, but the Helibars were mandatory for both comfort and safety. 
I rode that thing for 8 years, but last fall's trip around central coastal California on a rented Versys was a revelation.  13 hour days and I got off feeling like I could ride half the night too.  In contrast, 3 hours on the Daytona was great.  4 hours was kind of uncomfortable.  6 hours hurt a lot.  10 hours was agony.  I did several long tours a year, and paid for it in wrist and back pain.  It was worth it for the time in the twisties, but that bike is really meant for the track.
 
I was planning to replace the Daytona even before California, but after that trip it became a huge priority.  I didn't even want to think of taking my spring trip on it again.
 
The only thing I really miss about the Daytona was the suspension.  Well, and the looks.  I like my FJ just fine, but the Daytona was sex on wheels.  My wife said the Daytona was my version of Italian stilletto heels. :-)
 
You're going to love the hell out of the FJ, believe me.  It's so easy to ride fast and the motor is even better than the one on the Daytona, which is saying something IMO.  And you can have all that fun for way, way longer each day and not end up crippled at the bar.