hobo Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 My FJ was stolen, but I got it back a few days later. The thieves cut the wire harness from ignition switch and the start button. I installed new key switch and starter button, main 50 amp fuse, several smaller fuses that were blown and a relay that they had removed. After putting everything on, the bikes cranks over, but I don't have any spark at the plugs. The normal cutoff switches, side stand, clutch lever and neutral switch all have been tested with ohm meter and they work fine. Anyone have any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member johan Posted July 26, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 26, 2015 New key switch? Do you mean a new ignition and key? Did you try using the red key? I have no idea but maybe it needs to reprogram the key or something? Check the manual's instructions on the immobiliser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member wessie Posted July 26, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted July 26, 2015 New key switch? Do you mean a new ignition and key? Did you try using the red key? I have no idea but maybe it needs to reprogram the key or something? Check the manual's instructions on the immobiliser.He may not have a red key if in the US as they don't get the immobiliser system we have in the UK If they have blown fuses they may have fried all sorts of electronics. Personally, I'd chuck the bike at a dealer and claim on my insurance policy - I'd get an increase in premium anyway, as I would have to notify them of the theft. This signature is left blank as the poster writes enough pretentious bollocks as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Yea, dealer here in U.S. said that new key switch was 'plug and play'. No reprogramming needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Is the check engine light on? When you turn the key on and crank for several seconds, then stop, does a number appear? What's the key off battery voltage measured across the battery terminals? Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 I haven't checked voltage across battery yet, but I have tried it with battery fully charged and with charger connected. No difference. I did have an error code 042. It is for neutral switch, which would cause a no spark situation, plus it is also for a speed sensor. I took out neutral switch and tested with ohm meter. It tested fine and as it is shifted through the gears, by rolling tire with bike on center stand, each gear appears on the dash screen. I cleared out the fault from the dash and everything looks normal on dash. When the key is switched on it goes through the usual sequence and then the ABS light and the engine light stay on. Once the starter is engaged the engine cranks, engine light goes out, but no spark. I have all plugs in engine and the center plug cap off with a spare plug in cap, grounded to cylinder head bolt. Does anyone know what the 5VK-81950 relay under the seat do? I know it is a starter relay, amongst others, but I don't know if it has anything to do with the spark though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Ok, I appreciate what you are saying about the battery voltage, but the FI system needs a minimum of 12.2-12.4v or you WON'T have spark at the plugs. I have seen machines with 12.1-12.2 volts that will crank over just fine and not have spark. So please measure the Key-Off battery voltage to be sure, with the battery charger disconnected. You said you replaced some fuses: make sure the Ignition fuse in box #2 (RH front of the bike) is good, along with the fuel injection fuse. Code 42 is not responsible for the no-start condition. As you stated, it can mean a fault with the Neutral switch, a fault with the Clutch switch, and a 3rd option - a fault with no signal being received from the Rear wheel speed sensor. However, none of these would produce a no-spark situation. According to the manual the ECU should still allow the bike to run even with this as an active code. The relay you inquired about located under the seat, is a combination Starting circuit cut-off relay and fuel pump relay. Usually a fault in those associated circuits produce a situation where the engine won't crank over, or the fuel pump will not cycle. So I think we can safely not worry about that relay for now. First thing I would do is go back over the area that you said was cannibalized by the thieves: I'd want to make sure that everything is plugged in to the correct spot/connector and that they didn't knick a wire that isn't an obvious cut. Then I would go over the entire bike to see what else they may have had their hands on. Any place that you have fixed something already, is a place that they could have cut a wire, or unplugged a connector. The reason I am stressing this, is because 90% of electrical problems are BAD CONNECTIONS in one form or another. A connector that is plugged into another connector can still be suspect, especially if it's not fully "clicked" into place. The pins could also have been bent and not making contact properly, or even broken off. Check anything in the area that you know those scumbags damaged something, to be sure we aren't missing something very simple. You stated you replaced the start/stop switch assy. So now, when the Main key switch is switched On, and the stop switch is Off, the fuel pump should NOT run. When you move the switch to the On position with the key On, the pump should run. Does the switch function in this way? Keep us posted on your findings. I'm in the 'States, MST so may not get back to you until the AM. What's interesting about your symptoms, Hobo - is the lack of codes. If the harness leading to the coil packs for the spark plugs were cut/disconnected, you would have 1-3 codes. If the crank sensor, which is responsible for generating an AC voltage signal for the ECU to read - were disconnected, you would also get a code. If the ECU had a blown channel such that it isn't sending a DC V output to the coil packs - that would probably NOT generate a code. So at the moment, my money is still on a wiring problem that we haven't discovered yet. It's easy to check signal from the crank sensor to the ECU and from the ECU to the coil packs - but you will need a Volt meter with a peak voltage adapter for accurate tests. Oh, and verify that the Lean angle sensor is still installed in its correct position (located in front of the battery). Although if i remember correctly if it malfunctions it will cut the fuel pump, but just in case.... Good luck, and hope that helps - or at least points you in the right direction. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Skip, thanh you for the detailed response. It backed up my feeling that I'm just missing something simple. My volt meter is just a simple analog unit, so the difference between 12-13 is hard to determine, let alone 12.4-12.5. I'm trying to locate a better meter. THe battery is on a 2amp charger overnight. i have felt that the bike doesn't seem to be turning over as fast as it used too, but it has been two months since the last time it was running and the gas tank is off, so it sounds different anyhow. I went over all of the connectors that were replaced and all that I could spot. Nothing helped. One other thing they messed with was the clear covers over the ground wires under the rear seat. It is usually taped up and taped to the rear turn signal leads. They had cover off and the wires separated" I will look at that closer tomorrow. When I first saw the clear cover it had crystals inside and I thought it must be vile full of METH that the thief had taped there to transport drugs. I even called the cops to have them dispose of it. Luckily I went to the Yamaha dealer and was looking at an FJ on the floor and realized that the vile was actually for the ground wires. Unless Yamaha is transporting meth in all FJ's lol. I will keep looking and let you know what I find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Hobo- happy to try and help, no worries. Hard to diagnose electrical without the bike in front of me, but hopefully something will pan out. Thanks for following up on the battery. Regarding the splices: wow, wild stuff! They do look funky, I agree. Probably a more cost effective way for Yamaha to wire the newer models, I've seen it on some of the other bikes. A bad splice could certainly be the issue, especially if it's on the ground side. It would be simple to check for continuity from the splice to various parts of the harness to be sure something isn't getting dropped in the wiring. Tedious for sure, but that may be the path you are heading down. Good luck! Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceroz Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 It's not a good idea to use an analogue meter with ECU's. You should be able to pick up a cheap digital meter for less than $10 from Jaycar (or similar). Skipper is spot on with the battery voltage, it takes bugger-all to make the difference between start, and no start. It's also a good idea to have your meter connected when you are cranking the bike over. Batteries often have a "surface charge" which looks like an acceptable voltage, but they suffer a massive drop under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 With new digital meter, resting volts are 12.51 and cranking volts are 11.3. Is that within acceptable range? Still goin through the rest of the wiring harness Thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Yep, sounds great. I will check mine to confirm but a voltage drop of 1 to 1.5v while cranking is probably acceptable. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Battery voltage 13.1 key off. With key on, voltage stabilizes to around 12.5 (something you should check) and dips to 11.1-11.2 briefly when first cranking starter motor. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceroz Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 If you have checked the harness, you might need to go back to basics; how are you determining the no-spark condition? Do you physically have the plugs removed, connected and grounded to visually check the spark? You are approaching the point where you need to consider that a solid state component may be damaged, so it would be wise to go old-school with your diagnostics to prove that you have basic functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 My battery numbers are 12.5 key off, 12.3 key on and 11.3 cranking. Seems fine to me. After going through wire harness and un-connecting and re-connecting all connectors that I could find, there is still no spark, To test for spark I have put a spare plug in the center plug cap and ground it to one of the air injector cover bolts. The bike has the Graves air block off kit installed, so the bolt is easy to see. The tank is off, so it wouldn't start even if there was spark. Tomorrow I will try it again with another plug, just to make sure it's not the plug I'm using. I'm about out of options. It may be going to the dealer on Monday to have them look at it. The dealer told me that the access port on the right frame rail will only pull up fault codes. It won't do any diagnostic functions. Do either of you know if that's correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.