docsimple Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 well, it appears I will be removing and resetting the needles. Thank you very much for this. I can tell they are not working right so it looks like my saturday is now reserved for fork work instead of riding. 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member ULEWZ Posted November 21, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted November 21, 2015 Preload is set by measuring sag with you onboard. Aim for 40-45mm. The directions didn't (used to) do a good job of calling it out, but you start by turning the needle all the way out (CCW), then turn it in say 4 turns (you might be able to get 5), THEN you install it on the shaft till it lightly bottoms out, chase the nut upward to the gold part, tighten and then thread cap into fork tube. If you didn't do that, your needles are probably completely non-functional since they are backed out too far to do any regulating. Given the design and valving choices Andreani made, start with Comp all the way out (CCW) and Reb 2 turns out from seated. First deal with rebound. You want it as fast as possible without oscillating. Tuning C is more a function of brake stability and test riding it over say washboard/rumble strips and/or hitting the odd non-severe pothole. So, is the compression and rebound at zero all the way out CCW? I guess I got lucky and mine were set alright. Normally it is all the way CW to seat. A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950) Bikes: 2015 FJ-09, Seat Concepts seat cover and foam, Cal Sci medium screen, rim stripes, factory heated grips, Cortech Dryver tank bag ring, Modified stock exhaust, FlashTune with Graves fuel map, Cree driving lights, Aux power socket. 2012 Street Triple type R (Wifes) 2007 FJR1300 (Sold!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 So, is the compression and rebound at zero all the way out CCW? I guess I got lucky and mine were set alright. Normally it is all the way CW to seat. Needle position is ALWAYS counted as turns/clicks out from fully CW (closed). So to rephrase myself, start with Comp at 4 turns out, and Reb at 2 turns out and twiddle R till you get it where you want it. Then address C. Then try some small changes (1/2 turn either way) to R to see if they make a useful improvement. I just read the latest Andreani instructions. I commend them for actually putting in a couple sentences about setting the needle ("phasing" they call it) but they put it at the bottom of the page AFTER you've already put everything together. They need to put it at step 12 but maybe they don't feel like having to do another printing run. A professional suspension shop would know to do it, but your average DIY has no idea. The same procedure applies to pretty much every road cartridge fork. (BPF might be different and Matris actually has theirs bottom out based on the cap and not the needle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm a little confused here guys. AM i spinning the needle out from fully closed (silver, allen key) 4 turns or the 17 mm gold cap (preload?)? Because a couple things, I did adjust the gold all the way dowen and then 4 turns out before mounting. I thought that was what they meant. The other thing is if I go fully CCW with the needle (silver, allen key) it just comes out of the cartridge, there is no stop. Finally, when I put them on they were like rocks. I adjusted everything way soft and it got softer. Does this not mean that I am getting use of the pins? Again, I really appreciate all this. I just dont want to disassemble unless I have to! 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 you start with the gold turned CCW all the way. It doesn't actually move up or down. This is IMO a crappy "feature" and the rings on the side are thus pointless and misleading because most people expect them to mean something. They don't. The gold controls the spring preload by turning the black piece inside. The small silver should not come out no matter how many turns CCW you twist it. It has (supposed to) top out on an internal ledge. I re-confirmed, yes it most definitely tops out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 ahh, ok. So gold fully CCW and the center fully CCW than in 4 turns to seat the cap? or do I still have that last part backwards? Fully CW withdrawn 4 turns CCW? 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 at least they fixed their earlier brittle anodize problem (it would crack and flake) but the gold is still very soft. You can see the deformation that was caused by using a simple 12-point socket just spinning the preload adjuster about 3 turns back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 yup, I was very careful with the cap and got some deformation in the top as well. I would probably go a different route knowing what I know now.... but I'm in for 5 bills plus now so Im going to play with it as much as possible to try and make it work. I must have spun them all the way down when I was playing with the pin before installing. 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 the center fully CCW than in 4 turns to seat the cap?correct. 4 turns in, the silver should be close to flush with the gold. Not to confuse you further but since the needle they used is so shallow and long (8mm), on JUST the C leg I personally would try for as much a 8 initial turns so you can get the needle all they way out of the hole it's regulating. There is PLENTY of meat left for the rod to thread on. And on the R leg I would set the needle depth at 6 turns. You can of course just do the manufacturer's recommended 4. 4 turns 6 turns 8 turns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 looking at your pics I'm fairly sure they were flush (ie. 4 turns in) when I did the install. I will play with settings while riding this weekend and over the holiday weekend pull the forks. At that point I am going to go with a 5 weight in the rebound and a 2.5 in the compression vs the 7R/5C I have now. Again ty. visual explanations are priceless far anyone else following I have set the spring preload to 0 on both sides the C leg to wide open and the R leg to 2.25 turns per the suggestions in another thread from a forum for the Fz 09. I was way off of this still fairly closed. I will follow up with results to hopefully help another DIY guy starting down this path. 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member ULEWZ Posted November 21, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted November 21, 2015 This is confusing as heck. I will try and understand. You say all the way in is ALWAYS how the needles are set (fully seated), but then you say turning it CW (that means clockwise just to be sure we are on the same page) will unseat the needle, ie 8 turns in. So, to make sure I fully understand, you start fully counterclockwise (turning to the left), then turn in which will unseat the needle. Same for the rebound circuit. So basically what you are saying is this Andreanoni needle system is different then every other fork I have every adjusted. Just being sure as this is confusing. So the long and short of this is, set the R and C fully out CCW, then turn in which will unseat, not seat and go from there. A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950) Bikes: 2015 FJ-09, Seat Concepts seat cover and foam, Cal Sci medium screen, rim stripes, factory heated grips, Cortech Dryver tank bag ring, Modified stock exhaust, FlashTune with Graves fuel map, Cree driving lights, Aux power socket. 2012 Street Triple type R (Wifes) 2007 FJR1300 (Sold!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 What Im getting is you back the needle all the way out then move it in 4-8 turns. The cap is then set on the fork cartridge and installed. This install leaves you enough room to fully back out the needle and allow full oil flow. I installed at 4 turns in which may allow me to open the flow fully - but might not is what pattonme is saying. I also have my pre-load, the gold caps all the way CCW which is no pre-load on the springs. I have been satring at install instructions for a coupe of weeks and this connected the dots for me. Of course, I could have all that backwards 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 C leg oil recommendation 11-14cSt@40 Golden Spectro Shock (ultra light) 2.5w Bel-Ray HVI Shock 3w Kayaba (K2-S shock) Silkolene Pro RSF 2.5w Maxima Racing Shock 3w R leg oil recommendation (pending) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You say all the way in is ALWAYS how the needles are set (fully seated) AFTER the cap is installed. Yes, the 'zero' reference point is always from CW lightly seated. When SETTING the needle PRIOR to cap installation, you count in from fully CCW. When installing the cap, where the needle seats in the valve is the 'zero' from which you're going to count turns out once it's locked into place by the nut. So if you want a range of 4 turns from seated to fully out, you have to 'pre-set' the needle 4 turns in. Don't over think it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 looking at your pics I'm fairly sure they were flush (ie. 4 turns in) when I did the install. Very easy way to check. turn the silver till it bottoms. If it ends up flush, then yes you have ~4 turns of range. If it keeps going deeper and deeper, well... Hopefully it'll bottom out before you hit 9+ turns. After that the o-ring no longer seals so you will likely have some oil trying to come up the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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