Change in Yamalube Yamacool Engine Coolant Color/Chemistry

[nsmiller]

I'm getting ready to change the coolant in my FJR and FJ-09. I'll be making a how-to video as usual for the FJ-09. I'm currently trying to decide what type of coolant I want to use, and also educating myself on what Yamaha calls for, and exactly what type of coolant Yamacool is. (IAT, OAT, HOAT, etc?)
 
Anyway, I stopped into my local Yamaha dealer, which is a relatively small shop, and wanted to know if Yamacool came in concentrate gallon jugs (I prefer that over the premixed quarts at $8.99 a pop). The short answer is no it doesn't. But the dealer also said that Yamaha updated their coolant color/chemistry in 2016/17. The old coolant color in the 2015 models and some of the 2016's is blue. The new Yamacool is green. Obviously these are just dyes, but it signifies a change in chemistry. And according to word of mouth from this guy at the dealer they are not supposed to be mixed. I have not been able to find anything official about this from Yamaha. The dealer guy claimed if you were going to use the new Yamacool green coolant that you should flush the system with water first. He claimed he spoke with Yamaha and they said it would be better to have a bit of extra water in your block than to mix the two coolants. This seems odd, not sure why they would make this change and not publicize it well. 
 
I'm not sure I completely believe the dealer, and I may also choose not to use Yamacool because 8.99 a quart is ridiculous. But regardless, has anyone else heard anything about this?
 
I know a lot of people have opinions about coolant brand and color, just like oil. I'm not really interested in that. I want to know the chemistry of the coolant I'm using. That's what I care about. What ASTM standards does it meet? What anti-corrosion agents does it use? How toxic is it? These days color means nothing because it varies drastically between manufacturers and its all dye based anyway. Coolant without dye is clear like water.
 
I know that the Yamaha service manual calls for an Ethylene Glycol antifreeze containing corrosion inhibitors for aluminum engines. That's it. Nothing more or less.

[2wheelies]

Surprised no one replied! As the owner of a new 2015 that sat at a dealer for 2 years untouched, and with the blue color coolant at the very, very bottom of the LOW mark on the reservoir, this is very timely for me!!

[nsmiller]

Surprised no one replied! As the owner of a new 2015 that sat at a dealer for 2 years untouched, and with the blue color coolant at the very, very bottom of the LOW mark on the reservoir, this is very timely for me!!

I don't really trust anything my dealer told me about the changes in color of Yamacool. They are a small dealer, and say a lot of stupid stuff. I ended up using Pentosin A3 which I highly recommend. You can find all my thoughts on coolant summarized in the following video: 
 
[video src=https://youtu.be/lhMAqfr16Bo]

[wessie]

in Europe, Yamalube is orange!
https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/accessories/yamalube/careline/service-maintenance/yamalube-coolant/YMD-65049-00-82/details.acc
 
The spec is given on the page
"Contains reinforced hybrid anti-corrosion additives, based on mono-ethyleneglycol, suitable for light aluminium alloys used for engine design"
 
Claims to be compatible with other fluids - my 2015 bike came with blue fluid which is still in there after 16900 miles.
 
If it gets changed it will be any old glycol based shít from a local motor factor

[nsmiller]

in Europe, Yamalube is orange! https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/accessories/yamalube/careline/service-maintenance/yamalube-coolant/YMD-65049-00-82/details.acc
 
The spec is given on the page
"Contains reinforced hybrid anti-corrosion additives, based on mono-ethyleneglycol, suitable for light aluminium alloys used for engine design"
 
Claims to be compatible with other fluids - my 2015 bike came with blue fluid which is still in there after 16900 miles.
 
If it gets changed it will be any old glycol based shít from a local motor factor

What you're quoting about the 'spec' tells me nothing I don't already know. Doesn't say what the hybrid anti-corrosion additives are or in what percentage they exist. Looking up the MSDS of Yamacool; however, tells me that it is at least a phosphate based inhibitor package.  
I've seen the effects of using "any old glycol based shit" on water pump impellers, clogged heater cores, and rubber seals, and I would never recommend it. I recently inspected the valves on a friend's 2005 FJR 1300, which required draining the coolant and removing the coolant pipe which runs into the cylinder head. Someone at some point had put that crappy coolant in it and as a result the rubber o-rings basically disintegrated when the coolant pipe was removed. Evidence of aluminum corrosion was abundant. Cleaned it up the best I could.
 
So remind me not to buy a used bike from you. 
 
But its your bike so do as you please. My point is that you can buy a quality coolant and not spend a fortune.

[Brick]

Pentosin A3??? What the hell is that and where would one find it?

[nsmiller]

Pentosin A3??? What the hell is that and where would one find it?

I got it at my local NAPA for $16 a gallon. Also available at Advance Auto Parts. If your local store doesn't have it in stock they can certainly get it within 24 hours typically. Its blue, and its used in new Honda's. The reason I love Pentosin is they are completely transparent about what ingredients are in each formulation of their coolants. 
Advance Auto Link
 
Pentosin A3 Product Data Sheet
 

[wessie]

in Europe, Yamalube is orange! https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/accessories/yamalube/careline/service-maintenance/yamalube-coolant/YMD-65049-00-82/details.acc
 
The spec is given on the page
"Contains reinforced hybrid anti-corrosion additives, based on mono-ethyleneglycol, suitable for light aluminium alloys used for engine design"
 
Claims to be compatible with other fluids - my 2015 bike came with blue fluid which is still in there after 16900 miles.
 
If it gets changed it will be any old glycol based shít from a local motor factor

What you're quoting about the 'spec' tells me nothing I don't already know. Doesn't say what the hybrid anti-corrosion additives are or in what percentage they exist. Looking up the MSDS of Yamacool; however, tells me that it is at least a phosphate based inhibitor package.  
I've seen the effects of using "any old glycol based shet" on water pump impellers, clogged heater cores, and rubber seals, and I would never recommend it. I recently inspected the valves on a friend's 2005 FJR 1300, which required draining the coolant and removing the coolant pipe which runs into the cylinder head. Someone at some point had put that crappy coolant in it and as a result the rubber o-rings basically disintegrated when the coolant pipe was removed. Evidence of aluminum corrosion was abundant. Cleaned it up the best I could.
 
So remind me not to buy a used bike from you. 
 
But its your bike so do as you please. My point is that you can buy a quality coolant and not spend a fortune.

 
Thanks for the insult and I will return in kind.
 
Your so called analysis of the FJR is based on huge assumptions and your own prejudice. That crappy coolant may have been pond water. You have no evidence to say what was used in the engine: tap water, ditch water, Walmart's finest coolant or a premium brand. You have no evidence about the frequency the coolant was changed, if ever.
 
I follow the maintenance schedule for all of my vehicles. I use materials specified by the manufacturer and I suffer very few breakdowns. I'd rather follow the advice in the relevant service schedule than some sour faced bloke on the internet.
 
 

[nsmiller]

I wasn't insulting you. It was a joke, hence the smiley face. Lighten up a bit.
 
Regarding what was put in my friend's FJR, I do know what was used based on service records from the previous owner. But this is not the only case I've seen of low quality coolants damaging cooling system components. I have first hand experience which shapes my belief, and you have reasons for your own beliefs.
 
I don't care what you use, its your bike. I'm offering my advice to those who would like it.

[britelitebob]

Luckily nowadays anyone who knows how to read can spend a few minutes on the web and easily learn everything they need to know about antifreeze or oil or just about anything from folks that specialize in these things and avoid getting mixed up with any sour faced blokes all together.

[adjuster]

Here is a question for you guys out there on coolant.
 
My opinion is if your cooling system can handle the load with a mix of water and ethyl glycol based coolant, why can't it handle just pure coolant?
 
There is no water in the system then to cause corrosion, and that's fine by me.
 
Question is, does it get too hot and boil off? Water is a better coolant but it causes corrosion and allows electricity to break down the metals and really screw up your engine.
 
I've had great luck just running pure coolant. No water. No corrosion. No worries.
I will say on my Audi's that running the right coolant has proven worth the trouble. But even then, I just have always used pure not pre-mixed coolant. I think it is a pentosin branded product too IIRC.

[BBB]

It look like pure coolant additive has a higher freezing point so doesn't protect you from winter temperatures, has a less efficient heat transfer ability so doesn't protect as well from high summer temperatures and doesn't keep particulate anti-corrosion factors in suspension so they settle out and collect in the cooling system.
 
If the article is correct, three pretty good reasons to mix with water.
 
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1989-03-02/topic/8903030329_1_antifreeze-coolant-ethylene-glycol-pure

[nsmiller]

Here is a question for you guys out there on coolant. 
My opinion is if your cooling system can handle the load with a mix of water and ethyl glycol based coolant, why can't it handle just pure coolant?
 
There is no water in the system then to cause corrosion, and that's fine by me.
 
Question is, does it get too hot and boil off? Water is a better coolant but it causes corrosion and allows electricity to break down the metals and really screw up your engine.
 
I've had great luck just running pure coolant. No water. No corrosion. No worries.
I will say on my Audi's that running the right coolant has proven worth the trouble. But even then, I just have always used pure not pre-mixed coolant. I think it is a pentosin branded product too IIRC.

I drive two VW's so yes, you are correct VW's G13 Coolant is the same thing as Pentosin Pentafrost E. Although I wouldn't recommend putting E in the FJ-09, A3 is much better in that case.  
BBB is right about coolant not working nearly as well as a coolant/water mixture. If you change your coolant at the manufacturer's specified intervals you'll never have to worry about corrosion due to the presence of the water.

[hawkeye]

Pentosin A3??? What the hell is that and where would one find it?

I got it at my local NAPA for $16 a gallon. Also available at Advance Auto Parts. If your local store doesn't have it in stock they can certainly get it within 24 hours typically. Its blue, and its used in new Honda's. The reason I love Pentosin is they are completely transparent about what ingredients are in each formulation of their coolants. 
Advance Auto Link
 
Pentosin A3 Product Data Sheet

Thanks for this thread and video @nsmiller, getting ready to change the coolant in my '15 and found both helpful. 
 

[Yamajank]

Is that the consensus then concerning brand/type of coolant for after 2017 models even?  The Pentosin A3 still the go to?  My research suggested that a Zerex product like Original Green or the Asian Red might also work.  I have the 2019 GT and the fluid is green (I know it's just a color).  I'll visit my local shop tomorrow and see what they say.  I'm still waiting on the ECU to arrive from Ivan and I figure I have access to the cooling system.