Lone Wolf

Wow you really did a lot of work cleaning up the calipers. Yuk. At least you can work on the chain. Agreed. Jake was sloppy on the pistons. The FZ07 calipers are similar in the arrangement of 4 pistons, but they are not the same. The Tracer has Radial mount calipers, FZ07 are not. Usually I think of the MASTER cylinder in terms of "radial" but the term applies to calipers as well. Ari Henning explains it well in this article, and corresponding video: "What we’re discussing when we talk about radial or axial brakes is how the calipers are mounted to the fork. Radial calipers are secured via bolts that are parallel with the brake disc, whereas axial brakes are held in place by bolts that are perpendicular to the disc." MC Garage Video: Radial Motorcycle Brakes Explained The general consensus is that radial brakes are the best. But...

There are 2 things that are really odd. This is essentially a new bike, and grief like this usually shows up on an older bike that has been in storage for years. The other odd part is that your bike was fine after changing the pads, the problem showed up 2 weeks later. That makes the "cause and effect" harder to track down. Sure you hosed the bike with water but it should withstand that. You mentioned brake cleaner on the rubber seals that isn't good... If it was my bike, and I had tried everything you already mentioned, I would still do one more thing. I would pull some brake fluid out of the master cylinder to create some room, and intentionally try to push the caliper pistons in a bit. That will force some brake fluid back into the master cylinder, something to watch out for overflow. You established that the caliper pistons are not stuck and move easily (which is good) but usually when you push one, the others want to extend outward. I am talking about pushing all of them in a bit to create an abundance of clearance, the wheel will spin free, then with the bike on a front lift spin the wheel and apply front brake. If the brakes don't release properly and there is no improvement - I would change the caliper seals. Shouldn't have to on a 2019 model, but something is going on. The following video is set to start where he does the procedure I am referring to. It isn't the same bike, but the FZ07 does have 4 piston calipers and he shows the movement, and getting the pistons pushed back in. People replacing worn pads have to do this because the new pads are thicker than the old pads. You could use your old pads and a screwdriver to get the pistons in a bit. Just enough to be absolutely sure that the wheel spins easy, and then see if the problem persists when apply the front brake.

That is not normal. Your front wheel is still dragging. compare to Yuriy's video, his wheel rotates at least a full circle after being pushed. Also compare to this video (same as I posted on Friday) showing typical brake drag which is a bit more than Yuri - but a lot less than your last video. Yours is not typical. As soon as you stop pushing the wheel, it HALTS immediately rather than continue moving at least a bit. You mention the EBC HH pads - and while this problem may have appeared after they were installed - they are not the cause of the problem. Sintered pads are going to have more friction when the brakes are APPLIED, but at rest they are not relevant. Something else is going on.

Upside down forks changed all that - so much stiffer. I still have a "super brace" on a vintage bike. If you banged up an older bike with conventional forks, the tubes bent. Nowadays when someone hits something with a modern front end, it isn't that rare to break the F*ing frame of the bike because the front end "uppers" are so stiff.

Right, I could see all of them moving. Looked normal.

No I don't think it would cause what you are experiencing. Think about front forks with compression damping in one leg. The difference in force acting on left and right fork leg would be much more than this height adjustment - but it works out OK because the axel secured to forks creates a single unit. I know you didn't pull the front wheel just before all this trouble, but that is where the binding would occur is improper spacer or axle placement pushing the disk rotor out of place in relation to the calipers. But you didn't touch that stuff so it is a mystery.

The fact that you could FEEL the issue while riding = something very wrong. Your video confirms not OK. Just for info, here is what a normal pad dragging on the rotor sounds like:

He was a drill instructor in the Marines. Was in Iraq. Then he became the guy that teaches drill instructors. Seriously. I think he still lives near the Marine base in San Diego area. At first I was not sure about him, but watched more (with Ad Block) and decided he is legit. He learned the hard way by wrecking a liter bike, then had a need to figure it out. He became a MSF coach and worked with a track, which is consistent with his background of being an instructor. The thing I respect is that he does know what he knows and is not half ass about that - yet admits there are other riders and instructors who know way more than he does and is actually very humble about that.

Were you braking when lost traction? Accelerating? Gun it just before lost traction?

Like so many things in life, we have to look out for "Always" do this, or "Never" do that. It depends. In this case, it depends on the condition of the sprockets, and Canyon Chasers says if you replace a worn chain soon enough you can get 2 sprockets to one chain. If you wait, you can't. A lot of people have come to the conclusion that name brand chains on OEM motorcycles are not the same quality as that same brand chain aftermarket. At least you get to choose the best DID chain or whatever if you buy aftermarket. This is a really good video and article: How to Install a New Motorcycle Chain - CanyonChasers How do you know when your chain needs to be replaced? Go to your rear... In my experience, and most write ups, the front sprocket will get worn out first. I will purchase a new front sprocket when I buy the chain - then I can really compare the old sprocket to what it should look like when new. If it is starting to show wear, any slight signs of "hooking" (the middle photo below shows beginning of roundish indentations from where the rollers make contact) then I replace it with the new one. If the sprocket looks fantastic then it stays on the bike. That decision can be made on the rear before you pull the chain, much easier to see what is going on.

Yeah with all new surfaces on a new bike that is certainly a different scene than a vintage bike that has also seen some periods of storage. I started using vacuum bleeder but for many years just did the "squeeze the lever" method, which is what you see on most instructions. Even the video I posted on page 1 of this thread, Aaron uses vacuum bleed but also shows how to do it manually. It is something to be aware of if you are working on an older bike. Corollary with new bike... you should be fine.

In normal operation, the brake lever doesn't easily move all the way to the handlebar. At some point the fluid pushes the brake pads against the rotor, and the movement within master cylinder halts right there. On an old engine that needs to be bored out due to wear, you can see where the piston rings hit top dead center, and the bottom of the stroke. Above and below the area traveled by the piston and it's rings, the cylinder will be normal. It can be difficult to remove the old piston out of the worn engine because the rings hang up at the ridge formed at the location where normal travel ends. You get that old piston out, take the engine block to the machine shop where they bore out the cylinder a small amount. You purchase oversize piston and rings. Good as new. Same concept for brake system. During normal use the piston in the brake master cylinder only goes back and forth in a specific range of movement. You crack open the bleeder nipple in the caliper and start pulling the lever all the way to China, and the piston is now moving beyond it's normal area and depending on the age of the system could be hitting things stuck on the walls of the bore that interfere with the rubber seal. Could cause damage to the seal.

This SIL-Glyde is the proper grease for moving parts in a brake system, but really you can use anything to just seal around the threads. I have used wheel bearing grease then wiped it off when done. You have to put it where the tube connects to the bleeder nipple as well. Smear it around the end of bleeder nipple, push the clear hose over that, and it should be sealed. Wipe it 360 degrees around the bleeder nipple threads on the caliper before loosening the bleeder nipple. At that point there is no place for air to be introduced. The difference is night and day if you are using a vacuum bleeder but also makes a difference with old school tube in a bottle. Not my idea, I got it from watching a bunch of youtube videos including for car brakes.

I own a lot of tools. 3 different torque wrenches so there is a "sweet spot" in the middle of the range for big, medium, and small fasteners. I have a digital caliper. The Motion Pro chain breaker, and recently got the No Mar tire changer so I don't have to use tire irons anymore. I have a Fluke digital multimeter. I have the Morgan carb tune and sync my own bikes. I am kind of a tool freak. In your line of work you may have access to moisture testing equipment, and a background to understand it, which is awesome. I don't. And although I do buy tools that I may only use once (just changed steering bearings on older bike) I really don't feel the urge to get a moisture meter. For my background, I once restored a 50 Chevy truck and had to bore out the slave cylinders due to corrosion. The brakes were fantastic. Then I let it sit too long and some of the parts rusted up again. Maybe the metals are better now and less prone to corrosion, but that was my lesson that brake fluid (that I had put into a bone dry system) can absorb water. Master cylinders tend to have a rubber membrane under the lid. It will essentially seal the brake fluid from atmosphere - yet after time moisture does get in the fluid. I suppose from the small area of atmosphere below the membrane. Eventually there are bubbles in the system. I am not an expert, but would imagine that H20 subjected to repeated heat of braking may release some oxygen. I don't know where else those bubbles or sponge feeling would come from if there was no air leaking into a closed system. It's really not my battle, and certainly no battle with you, but I don't have a problem with fresh brake fluid. Motor oil is different, as they mention in the NAPA article I posted. I just don't take any chances with brakes - I even face east every time I pour fluid in the master cylinder.

Personally I will put that money toward a new bottle of brake fluid, fairly cheap. Brake Fluid Shelf Life and Other Important Auto Essentials Understanding brake fluid shelf life can make a big difference in your...

Once a container of brake fluid is open, the clock starts ticking on shelf life. Dave Moss says if you don't use it within 3 months to toss it (due to absorb moisture from atmosphere).

It doesn't matter. All DOT 4 is compatible. Mixing is unimportant, compared to bleeding the system dry. Bleeding the reservoir dry is an "oops". As others have said, if you want to pull some of the fluid out of the master cylinder before commencing the bleed you can pull a lot of it out with a syringe or "turkey baster". Then fill with new fluid and start to bleed it out.

If you look at that video with Aaron bleeding brakes, he shows putting teflon tape around the bleeder nipple threads to keep air from coming in, and from my experience a lot of the bubbles that you see cruising through the tube may not have been in your brake system - they get introduced from the gap in the threads when you open the bleed nipple screw. I have seen that with the old "tube in a bottle" method as well as vacuum bleeders. the problem with the teflon tape is you have to pull the bleeder screw all the way out and wrap it (or have a spare ready to put in as soon as you remove the old one). Personally I wipe a small ring of grease around the brake nipple and zero air can get in, it dramatically reduces the bubbles you see - and the ones you see are from the brake system not outside atmosphere. This is a legit issue. Speed bleeder nipples come with a pre-applied sealant around the threads to combat this problem, and they sell a bottle of liquid to re apply because it wears off the threads. I just use the grease. Did he change your brake fluid to silicone? Do you have the container that was used? If he changed to non-OEM fluid you would of course be aware of that for future brake work. Any DOT 4 could have been used for your bleed, there is no need to get rid of existing fluid when going back with DOT 4 from any manufacturer. BLEEDER AT THE MASTER CYLINDER I recently pulled the banjo bolt on another bikes master cylinder and replaced it with one of these from Spiegler. You bleed it right there (in addition to the caliper bleed screw). These are also helpful for some rear master cylinders where you can't get to the high point where the bubbles rise up to. I got mine through Revzilla, did not come with crush washers so you may want to order crush washer as well.

They had problems with K2 units as well, then fixed a firmware issue about a year ago and they have been OK. The bad reviews seemed to stop after a while, and there was a Gold Wing forum noting lots of issues then it calmed down. It almost put me off, but then I figured that maybe they evolved and learned and fixed it - and it seems that they did.

Member Clegg78 did, but some of the images aren't showing up now 3D Printed Dashcam mount and Motorcycle parts – Interwebs of Joe So last fall I sold my trusty 2005 Triumph Sprint ST motorcycle and picked... from this thread I have the Innovv K2 installed on a different bike and although expensive, you can rely on it. It has been rock solid for me, starts recording every time I start the bike with front and rear cameras. No issues in the 6 months I have had it. Very nice software, which is a complaint with the cheaper MC dashcams.

The main culprit I see is the glazing, and that is fairly common on brake pads that have been in use. I have taken pads like that, sanded the glazing off with 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surface, and had functioning brakes again. the HH pads will be even better because of more aggressive friction. Your backing plates have the normal dusty residue one would expect. When my pads were contaminated from leaking seals on an older bike, the contamination was more obvious in terms of not looking just dusty but kind of muddy scum layer. You would need to rub a rag on the pads to see if anything other than dust comes off - it is really had to tell from a photo because pads have a lot of fibers and binders that goes into the "mix" and you add wear and heat cycles to that and it is just a confetti of particles. In the FZ-07 world there is a video by "Jake" where his brakes just seemed to stop working. Fairly low miles, and the pads just seemed to stop grabbing. He changed to the same EBC HH’s you did in a video and all issues were fixed. He had no known contamination, no leaking fork seals, no mention of wrong cleaning substance. The stock pads just stopped grabbing. I suppose the good news is to be aware of it and do something rather than live with bad brakes.

1) A good non-spongy brake that is "not transferred to the rotor" is obviously due to lack of friction, such as the speculation about pads being contaminated, or glazed, or crappy. 2) the reason to do the hard braking (but not complete stop) multiple times is to generate HEAT and allow transfer of brake pad material to the rotors. If you do research on this and go down the rabbit hole, you will find that race car brake suppliers even have a service where they sell new parts that have been "bed in" at the factory. They spin the rotors and in a controlled environment, get them up to the heat needed and the transfer of pad material is done before the parts are even put on the race car. Otherwise the guy is driving in circles, brake, go, brake, go, brake, go. 3) If you never do a controlled bed-in of the brakes, it is supposed to occur gradually over time during normal driving. When new parts are installed, the brakes may feel terrible - you bed them in - and within a few minutes you have fantastic brakes. That is especially noticeable with pads designed to give good initial bite like HH pads. 4) I have had bikes with leaking fork seals, and once the pads get contaminated with oil they will never get the friction needed to work properly. I once tried to save money by spraying the oil-soaked brake pads with harsh brake cleaners, soak in acetone, etc. but they only got slightly better. I had to change the pads (and fix the source of oil). I have never experienced a loss in braking due to "product to make the bike shiny" but I would imagine that would be much more temporary than oil-soaked. If it were my bike, and bedding in didn't help, I would pull the pads and see if they were glazed. Sand them with 120 grit until matte looking or just replace them while they are out.

Yep, you are correct. It is a great habit to bleed brakes regularly, don't give the fluid a chance to get old and absorb water. So there is zero harm in just bleeding the brakes - now. That is just odd. I find the stock brakes to be at least "good". Just for giggles, you may want to find an empty road and do a series of maybe 4 controlled slow-downs from @ 45-60 Mph down to almost stopped (don't completely stop). Then get it up to speed again, do a controlled (not panic) fairly hard but even slow to about 5 Mph again, and just do that 4 times. A bike with 5,000 miles shouldn't need to have the brakes "bed in" like that, but I did once "heal" a bike that was starting to feel like wooden brakes by doing that maneuver. It is free, just look behind you before slowing down. The reason you don't completely stop in doing this is because theoretically you are getting the pads and rotor hot enough to transfer some material from the pad to rotor (bed in). If you keep holding the brakes and come to an absolute stop, you may have more material transfer there and get pulsating brakes afterwards.

Not required. Nice to have, but you can get the job done 100% with simply a tube that goes into a jar. Follow the videos. Without a speed bleeder It just means you have to close the caliper bleed nipple after you squeeze the brake lever (if you are doing it manually). Once a bottle of brake fluid has been opened most sources say to discard after about 3 months because some moisture will be absorbed from exposure to atmosphere. You will discard a bottle before it is empty, so you can just pour an inch or so of brake fluid in the jar before you start, and that eliminates the risk of air coming back into the caliper, the end of the hose is submerged in liquid.

Watch Aaron do a stoppie on a stock FZ-07 with no radial master cylinder and calipers worse than Tracer. Set to start at 3:27