petshark

19 minutes ago, bowlin01 said:

Purely by chance I was speaking to another rider who came to ask how I was enjoying my 2018 GT900 as his Son was one of the lead designers of the bike. During the conversation he mentioned that his Son was increasingly frustrated about the compromises Yamaha introduced to the design to meet the cost/ price point parameters. The screen was the biggest thing that was compromised (he didnlt know any more detail), interesting nevertheless.

 

Absolutely. On one side I don't find it surprising that they want to cut corners here to get to a price point but on the other hand why do the R&D for a 'Ducati' style one-hand screen adjustment but not spend a little more to wind-tunnel test the screen itself? Is it that they prefer us (reviewers and consumers) to have one obvious point of failure to nag about?

Maybe Yamaha's data shows that you need to give the consumer something that is very obviously bad but can easily be improved upon and therefor never be a deal-breaker. That way the narrative is controlled and doesn't turn to some other shortcoming that is perhaps harder to fix. It's likely that most reviewers just echo each other so I could see this being some kind of smart strategic move. Just thinking out loud,  I could be completely wrong.

Yamaha does listen and they have fixed so many other design flaws so why not the screen?

3 minutes ago, texscottyd said:

I still have to laugh at the history of the screens on these bikes:   They went from truly horrendous (2015-2017) to really awful (2018-2021), to not quite mediocre (2022+, although the jury is still out on this... need more data).

Yamaha's engineers are generally pretty talented, so I think this has to be one of those situations where the overall design parameters have forced a compromise that just doesn't really work for anyone.   At least the aftermarket has a wide range of options to let you tailor to your own needs.  

I have seen some reviews on Youtube were the reviewer actually liked the screen on the 2018-2020 (2021 is already the 9 model). There probably is some kind of sweet spot where it actually works. Find that and you know how tall the engineer in charge is. 

1 hour ago, stringman said:

Well I have got the MRA vario

Tried it out , and was disappointed. I had really high hopes for this.

So far I have tried it in the fully raised position with the visor in the bottom and top position.

Still way more wind and noise than my old 17 tracer with puig touring screen.

To be fair if i crouched down a few inches it was bliss. I have raised bar risers so may drop back down to the original ( does anyone know what size they are? as I dont have them).

One thing I noticed on my old puig that although it was smaller it had a proper mounting bracket that fitted to the bike. The one I have for the GT doesnt seem to have that?

onwards and upwards? 

I think the pre-18 model is known for it's weak screen bracket so a larger screen requires reinforcement. They fixed that on the 18+ model (hopefully this doesn't get flagged as adult content :-D ).

The MRA vario is supposedly one of the best ... if you're not too tall. As said at 6' I don't think it would work for me neither. i did get the 'open visor - no earplugs' experience with the Puig Touring and the added MRA x-creen. If you were happy with your Puig before that might work for you.

19 hours ago, Dpl900 said:

Hello friends for me today had several changes in Yamaha tracer 900.

some time ago I bought a final exhaust akrapovic and I decided to make handmade headers

The exhaust needed repair so I did everything in the workshop 

I liked the final result very much I can say..their construction cost 320 € 

 

Nice job!!

I found this great article if anyone is interested:

https://www.motorcycle.com/safety/mo-tested-cornering-abs.html
 

Quote

 

I could throw the KTM into a corner and and roughly hammer the brakes without the front tire losing its grip and without blatantly obvious pulsing from the brake system – the bike simply scrubbed off speed at a rapid pace,” says Duke. “The only drama was gathering the nerve to brusquely apply the brakes, not the physics-defying electronic execution.

 

 

 

While trying to answer my own question, I found that Yamaha does seem to make their own IMU, which was developed for the 2015 R1.

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/design_technology/technology/electronic/001/

And some more info about this:

Quote

6-Axis IMU
The 2021 Tracer 9 GT features a newly developed 6-axis Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) that retains the base performance of proven IMU in the YZF-R1 but is 50% smaller and 40% lighter due to a thorough review of the sensor layout. The engine control unit (ECU) that receives and reflects the data from the IMU is equipped with three rider aids: a Traction Control System (TCS), Slide Control System (SCS) and the front-wheel LIFt control system (LIF). The Brake Control System is controlled by the Hydraulic Control Unit (separate unit from ECU) which modulates front and rear brake pressure based on data from the IMU as well as the front and rear wheel speed sensors. All three systems work together to help the rider concentrate on better extracting the machine’s potential. Each of the systems can also be turned on or off and have their levels of intervention adjusted to preference.

(source: https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2021/2021-yamaha-tracer9-gt )

12 hours ago, daboo said:

It took me probably 20,000 miles to activate the ABS on my first ABS-equipped bike.  It was in a situation where I had no choice but to grab onto the brakes for all I was worth.  Afterward, I thought about the chattering feeling and realized it was the ABS kicking in.

Riding without all the aids, IMHO, makes you a better rider and gives you a better experience to enjoy.  Even if you have the aids available, you should never put yourself in the situation of routinely using them.  There's a feel good riders have of what their bike is doing and the traction the situation has.  If you're using the rider aids "heavily", you're pushing the conditions to the limit with no buffer for the unexpected.  And you won't have developed any "feel" on your own.

One of the joys I get in riding, is the feeling of being one with the bike.  Of feeling it respond to my thoughts.  I don't want to be disconnected from the experience with anything getting between me and the situation.  There's also a feeling of accomplishment knowing that it is my skills making this happen.  If I'm using those rider aids routinely, it would be like alternately mashing on the throttle and mashing on the brakes.  There's no skill involved in that case.  It's all the bike, not the rider.  Anyone can do that.

 

Your question in the first post, brought up a funny thought in my mind.  In about a year, someone will come on this thread saying they tried it and apologize for taking so long to respond.  They'll add that they would've responded sooner, but they've been in the hospital till now.     

Chris

I do enjoy feeling as one with the machine and 99% of my rides I try and do exactly that. I am not leaning on the rider aids at all during that time.

I often make some time though to advance skills that I don't use during those 99%. That includes full-lock figure-eights, small stoppies and panic brake simulations. When I'm riding down a boring straight road and there is nothing in sight I might check my rearview mirror, accelerate to 70 km/h, pick a visual reference point and after reaching it brake as hard as I can. After coming to a full stop I check how many meters it took me, sometimes noting if the surface made it longer or shorter than I expected. This way I have a feel from experience how much I space I will need to come to a full stop when someone appears out of a driveway or something similar. I am confident that my reaction time and reflex to execute a panic manoeuvre will be optimal from doing this frequently. I can't imagine not wanting to know and internalise your bike's exact braking distance in any situation.

All I can do is demonstrate with the video what I saw with my own eyes: that BMW's cornering ABS works as well as regular ABS. I understand the sentiment that triggering it is dangerous but let's agree to disagree on that. In my opinion you can never be one with a machine that has tricks up it's sleeve that you don't want to know about until you are in a life-or-death situation. To me that is unsafe and what I'm doing is really going for maximum safety. But I don't think we will be able to convince each other in this thread and that is ok.

I do the same with cars btw, when it's wet and I have access to an empty parking lot I'll evaluate how the ABS responds to different situations.

6 hours ago, How2 said:

Does any one have the actual bearing numbers stamped on the original Koyo bearing?

I should still have my old ones lying around somewhere. If you still need the number I'll see if I can find them and make a picture.

2 minutes ago, texscottyd said:

15+ years of road racing really drilled it into my head, and even thought I'm way more conservative on the street, the mechanics of trail braking into the apex (or even subtly feathering in a touch of brakes with the throttle open to adjust mid-corner line or speed) works exactly the same way.  It's a necessary skill, and while I think the IMU-based cornering ABS systems are an amazing safety net, I'm still not to the point of intentionally triggering it to see what happens.  

I'm still a novice trail braker but I do try to use it as you describe. The way I see it trail braking is kind of the opposite of what is being discussed here. Amongst other things it protects us from upsetting the suspension by suddenly applying the brakes at lean. It allows to add a little more brake when needed to correct the line. But I am just learning and have no track racing experience so I shouldn't presume to give any advice about this. 

To the other point, I just don't see the difference between trusting ABS in a straight line versus in a corner. Before ABS was introduced on bikes grabbing too much front brake at high speed would almost always result in a crash so I think the discussion was probably much the same back then. People wouldn't try it as the fear was too ingrained. These days most will dare to trigger the ABS in a straight line because it has proved itself over time while this new IMU ABS still is kind of new.

To see it in action is probably the best way to start trusting it. There are no skills required. Lean, brake, stop. It just works. 

Another great exercise was riding through gravel and blipping the throttle to get a feel for the traction control. The way I see it our machine reacts to circumstances and we react to that reaction wether we want to or not. I prefer to train myself to not be surprised by the rider aids kicking in. 

This all started when I almost had a high-side because of some sand in a corner. When the traction control tried to save me I grabbed the front brake in sheer panic. I kept it upright somehow but vowed to train myself not to be surprised again. This post is the result of what I learned during those trainings.

In another course we were asked to accelerate to 120 km/h (they used a speed gun to make sure we did) and just use maximum brake force front and lightly drag the rear for stability. I easily "won" that segment because I have no fear of the ABS and just did as I was asked while all other riders in that course were too careful. The instructor was well in his 60s and asked someone to sit on the back of his K1600 and did the same thing 2-up. It's amazing to see from the side how long the brake distance was even with ABS. During the theory part of the course they showed statistics of new German studies from which the conclusion was that here in Europe they will stop teaching to swerve or find an exit and accelerate. Just braking as hard as possible is statistically the best chance of survival. I took that with a grain of salt and think that the better you are trained the better chance you will have of making the right decision but for novice riders I can believe this to be true. They said it's useless to train swerving because in a blind panic you won't do it...

I really don't want to make this an "You should all be doing this" thread so please tell me to shut up when I am repeating myself. It's just that I really believe that getting to know these rider aids can save a lot more lives when we are not surprised by them in that worst of situations.

23 minutes ago, peteinpa said:

Only way to test that system would be a low traction surface while leaned over hard.  Just those 2 together is a crash no electronics can stop already.

That is true but "low traction and leaned over hard" is just a hair away from a crash even without braking. I have no dirt bike experience and would never try the ABS on purpose in those circumstances. 

All I can say is that the course was given by a motorcycle cop (also on a GS) and he first demonstrated it with and without the Pro ABS on. He then told everyone with the newer GS's "you have it easy, you can just grab the front brake in the corner". They did and it just works just like in that video I posted above. Obviously you need reasonable traction but apart from that there is nothing to it... on a GS.

I'm just wondering if the Tracer 9 will be just as docile.

7 hours ago, betoney said:

Ok, now I’m curious… how did they come to a full stop… in a corner… leaned over… and not fall over?  🤷🏻‍♂️

Here's an old video from when they first introduced it on the S1000XR:

I completely understand the reactions from all of you who have been riding a long time. I'm sure that I would be in your camp if it wasn't for the fact that I only started my motorcycle journey 10 years ago and have always leaned heavily on the tools at hand. I should probably never ride a bike without ABS because of that. Even though I never trigger the ABS accidentally, I just don't have that healthy fear of using the front brake at lean so I need the tool to be there.

The same discussion exists about trail braking. It's also a tool that I use, practise and think of as something extremely useful and safe but it is met with a lot of scepticism by veteran riders.

When I met this seasoned Swiss biker (on a Gixxer) in the Alps he was giving me tips on how to hang off the bike like a MotoGP rider. He told me that he spent countless hours analysing what they were doing frame-by-frame. I proceeded to follow him through a pass and he gave me a lesson by example (don't get the wrong idea... I'm not that good ;-) ). But when that same conversation touched on trail braking he said that he doesn't ever dare to touch the front brake while cornering. It's obviously preferable not to low-side in the Alps but isn't it amazing that someone goes so deep in cutting edge cornering while completely blocking out an equally important technique? Without trail braking MotoGP would be a completely different game. There's a theory floating about on the net that it's only useful on the racetrack but I completely disagree with that but that is another topic. 

Another anecdote: I did an advanced riding course where one guy (again on a GS) exclaimed that he never touches the front brake at all. He was taught by an instructor that the front brake is dangerous and should never be used... just a few years ago!! 

I'm sure that in the near future most new riders won't even know that it was ever dangerous to brake in a corner. IMO technology has overcome that problem but just like with regular ABS it will take some time/generations to adapt it it.

So in short I completely understand the healthy reluctance to try this out but I am a big proponent of practising panic-braking and feeling the ABS work often. If I ever get a bike with an IMU I will certainly add cornering panic-stops to my routine. I feel so much safer and in control that's just me.

During a course I did last year we practised braking while cornering and most of the other riders had GS's. The newer models had ABS Pro and they could do full panic stops at lean angle. I was impressed, it just worked.

Most rides I do a few panic brake simulations. I go up to 100km/h and (after a quick rear view mirror check) try to brake as efficiently as possible. Recent studies show that letting the ABS do its thing is always fastest. I'm not so convinced about that but I do practise it so I am very comfortable with the feel of the ABS. I also practise squeezing just right to try and just miss the ABS trigger and do small stoppies.

Anyway, the IMU is one of the main reasons that could make me upgrade to the Tracer 9. 

Has anyone tried triggering the ABS in a corner? Is it as good as BMW's? I'm guessing it's probably the same Bosch controller, right?

3 hours ago, Ride365 said:

Love my MRA touring, looks the best of the lot imho and it sure works great for me.

It was your endorsement that made me pull the trigger on the MRA Touring and it's been really wonderful. Thanks again.

On 4/23/2022 at 8:20 PM, stringman said:

Seems like the MRA Vario is very good.

Can you tell me if you need the visor full up for the benefits?

Also what is the height of just the screen?

Finally has anyone tried it without the visor? what was it like?

 

cheers all

I have and I love it!

I bought the bike with this Givi which was horrible

I have it listed for sale and there is absolutely zero intrest after months. Stay away from this one.

I then bought the Puig touring screen after a lot of research but it wasn't a lot better and I didn't like the look. I then added the MRA touring X-creen spoiler and that solved a lot of turbulence but it looked even worse.

Finally (with the help of this forum) I tried the MRA Touring

I love it so much that I have not changed it back to the Puig barn door during winter as I had originally planned. I just can't bring myself to go back to that look, I really, really dislike it. I have to add that I do wear custom ear plugs with motorcycle filters because the noise is too much for me (already have tinnitus from a career as a musician) but it's not turbulence, just clean air. I can hear music and podcasts perfectly clear via my Cardo with the plugs in.

I could try to install the MRA X-creen spoiler on the MRA touring but I feel like I've gone full circle with the screen thing. I'm never thinking about the screen anymore while I'm riding and to me this it's the best look the Tracer GT can have. I highly recommend it but as others mentioned it's all highly subjective and there's many factors that could change your experience. Height, gear, etc..

I'm 6' and have come to the conclusion that the screens have to be too big for them to work like I want them to so I've goie the other way. I should probably sell the other screens as I don't see them going back on the bike.

In the beginning the high rev range of this bike felt to me like I was about to blow the engine up. When I pushed past that after a few months I realised that I actually hadn't known what this bike was about. Now, I stay in second gear more often than not, almost till the redline. Third is only for +100 km/h on pleasure rides (they almost always are). And I stay in A mode at all times.

It is amazing that the same machine can be used as a "gentle" commuter while to me it is a race-bike in disguise. Kudos to the Yamaha engineers. 

The downside is that I do get really bad milage now, I've even started dipping below 30 mpg on average.

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

what does he mean by "20 plate"? 

57 minutes ago, kilo3 said:

The year of the bike.

I think it's a British thing where they put the year of manufacture on the licence plate? I've wondered about this as well so maybe someone from the UK can confirm?

On 4/23/2022 at 11:18 PM, Wintersdark said:

Yeah, the Tracer 900GT comes with it as standard, it's not an option.  It's entirely ECU based.  I'm VERY curious - but also dubious.  I mean, going +/- one countershaft sprocket tooth is very much normal, to have that break cruise randomly seems very odd.  Particularly as the prior 16/47 gearing was ALMOST as short, and it didn't cause a problem.  There's no sensor on the sprocket, so it's not like a specific sprocket issue (and indeed, the sprocket I took off to put this one on was an aftermarket generic sprocket).

I was pretty sure that I have read other reports about cruise control problems after changing the gearing. I did a quick search on the forum and found this one on top:

The OP says there are problems with CC but he doesn't mind them.
@Merciless posts "I think when you change the front sprocket cruise control doesn’t work.".

I also remember other occasions where this was mentioned so I think we can conclude that some changes in gearing do in fact mess with the ECU's control over the CC. 

On 4/24/2022 at 2:06 AM, Wintersdark said:

But CC is tired into a number of seemingly unrelated systems on the bike, so a mismatch in RPM vs ABS related speed may cause the CC to be disabled for safety.  That's a safety system that actually does make some sense.  For example, it could automatically disable CC if RPM is way too high for speed to prevent racing the engine if the clutch slips.

Particularly when you consider the range of things that can disable the stock cruise control - as per @Warchild's posts above.  

It still seems a pretty big stretch, but it did start after I changed the gearing from 16/47 to 15/45.  

This makes sense. I think you have probably found your answer.

12 hours ago, 2NDCHILDHOOD said:

I am waiting for Ivan to come out with a flash for the 2021+. I have never had a flash done before but he comes highly recommended from what I have read. It will probably add some performance and throttle upgrades  but I would also like the cruise control to work in all gears and speeds. Right now you can only engage it in 4th gear at 32mph+. I haven't contacted him but I imagine he is having a hard time finding a bike to buy for calibrating and testing. According to his website that is what he does to ensure the flash works as promised. I went to the dealer where I bought mine to have the recall done and there wasn't a single Yamaha on the floor. Honda, Kawi and Suzuki were well represented but Mamma Yama was conspicuously missing. My brother-in-law had to travel 300mi. a couple of months ago to purchase the only 2021 FJR he could find.

I had hoped that I could get the cruise control to work at all speeds (for some pseudo-gymkhana practise) but in the Woolich racing software it's not an option unfortunately. I think I did read that Ivan's flash does provide this option.

I seem to have a faint memory of someone saying that it might be harder or even impossible to do on the new Tracers. Better security? I could be completely wrong about this but just another possible reason why it's taking so long. 

2 hours ago, stringman said:

well I picked up the bike yesterday

the rear spring is a 140nm/mm  or  800lb

it wasnt as bad as I thought handled really well round the smooth bends.

I have been advised to get a 115nm//mm  655lb as this is the minimun that ohlins reccomend for the GT. With gear and topbox etc I reckong is  105-110kg around 230-240lb

sound about right to you guys?

Thanks

Yes, this is what I was told by Ohlins:

Quote

 

The standard spring has 115N/mm, the next harder spring is 130N/mm. That is 15N/mm which will be too hard for you alone I fear.

So it makes sense to aim for comfortability when you are riding alone and not with your cases on, so we and your dealer recommended the standard spring which is for 80 to 90kg.

 

2 hours ago, stringman said:

Well I made the decision!

Over the weekend I picked up a 19 reg Phantom blue Tracer 900 GT

Like I say I wasnt that bothered by the GT options, but the bike ( bought privately) was the same price as a standard Tracer from a dealer so it was a no brainer. Plus it came with lots of extras and an Ohlins shock.

Rode it home yesterday and it seemed so different to my old tracer, seemed faster accelerating ( even though mine had an akra  and reflash) and the brakes seemed better.

I wasnt that bothered by the qs (I guess I need to learn how to use it) but did like the CC.

Now all I have to do is fit all the extra goodies!

Thanks for all your help

Congratulations! 

On 4/13/2022 at 2:48 PM, CRFan250 said:

For me a tune was needed to get rid of that hideous stock exhaust.  The new ones are even more hideous, lol.  I personally only use Ivan's tunes and the Black widow exhaust wasn't very expensive and its quite nice quality wise. 

If your signature is still correct: your 2020 definitely benefits from a tune, even without after market exhaust, but this thread is about tuning the new model. So far everyone agrees that it doesn't need a tune. 

Personally I find the stock exhaust beter looking than any after market exhaust. The less I see it, the better. Lucky for me!  I would even go further and say that if Acrapovic was a cheap Eastern European brand that all factories fitted by default and the stock exhaust that we have now was built by a racing parts company then most people would think that the OEM is the better looking one. IMO it's more about the mass hype and sexy names than how it looks. I have considered an acra for the sound but it looks like a downgrade to me visually. I have 120 hp at the wheel after the ECU flash so there's no real power gains neither.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's all subjective and I can certainly understand people enjoying their exhausts. I'm just happy with the stock one.

I test rode the 21 Tracer 9 GT and based on that hour of riding I had the feeling that it would not need the ECU flash nor the suspension upgrade. 

13 hours ago, stringman said:

That is a very valid point.

Bit of backstory. Back in 2015 I had an old triumph sprint rs, I loved that bike, it was a fairly weighty bike but i could hussle that round the twist lanes where I live. That died and I thought i would go for a bit more upright so tried the tiger 800- hated it and tried the 2015 tracer. I liked it but never really gelled with it or felt confident with the way it took corners. New tyres helped lots but it just felt to figety and skittery for me. Anyway that bike got stolen and i got a 17 plate. this time i spoke to a suspnsion guy who changed the front springs and set it up  and then put the Nitron R1 on.

It transformed the bike.

So now getting a new bike i would at least want the same standard. 

 

I agree with @ZigMeridthat the GT suspension is certainly good enough for city and highway riding. It is a budget bike and the upgraded GT suspension is better than before but "it transformed the bike" is exclusive to the better aftermarket solutions I fear. You don't need it but it makes riding the thing so much more fun, especially on twisty roads.

On a Ducati, BMW or KTM that great suspension is often included. But a GT with upgraded suspension is so much cheaper and to me felt like the superior bike compared against a KTM Super adventure 1290 full option. So the upgrade is expensive but it's actually very cheap for the total package.

10 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

So, it's seen many hours of work at with a Yamaha certified master tech.  All switches are working correctly, he's run it with a datalogger for a full hour, and been in communication with Yamaha.  So far, it appears that nothing is wrong.  Except the cruise control shuts off.  Yet there's no signal from any of the switches, no data showing why it turns off, it just does.  I'm guessing it's a software problem.

Glad I've got the T7 to ride while they're monkeying with it.  

 

Ugh, a ghost in the machine.

I do some coding myself and I can't image how Yamaha could have a bug in their ECU code that causes this TBH. It has to be triggered somehow by something physical.

Reminds me of my suspension tech saying he upgraded a Tracer's fork and got an ABS error afterwards. They ended up going to a Yamaha dealer, replacing the sensor, re-flashing the ECU but could not fix the error. 

it's great that you have warranty and another bike. Hopefully they'll find it.

Maybe someone else has done this upgrade on a non-GT shock? I'd check with a suspension tech if it's worth it to upgrade it.

If you have the funds I'd go with the GT but I've never been known to be sensible about these things and mine isn't a workhorse, it's a pleasure tool.