petshark

1 hour ago, ZigMerid said:

I recently saw this technique on a trusted youtube channel (South Main Auto). Although it was for high quality brake replacement on an auto, obviously the same theory applies. I confess to never thinking much about it before then, but it makes sense that the rotors and pads need some sort of bedding in.

I imagine that front brakes get bedded in one way or the other anyway, just thru regular use. But, I'm wondering whether it's possible that rear brakes may need specific bedding in as they otherwise may rarely, if ever, experience this sort of heavy braking in the normal course of use.

Perhaps just regular use over time has the same effect, but maybe not?

 

Maybe but I think you really need to get them very hot to release the maximum potential. I could be wrong. I can only give testimony that it's a very efficient way to get them to work great instantly.

3 hours ago, Grumpy Goat said:

I don't know ... my S1000R had even better brakes than the RS - front and rear.

I'll just change out the pads and hope that it improves it to the best that it can be ... 🙂

It really does make a big difference. I'm still not certain that I won't do the same. (only the front though)

I have no experience with supersports bikes but I imagine that the S1000 bikes get the best brakes that are available at a reasonable price point. The RS and GS will be a tier lower and the Tracer another one below that. It's price vs package vs intented use and all that. Tracer buyers aren't looking for cutting edge brakes. We like them yes, but we don't want to pay for them.

I really wanted to buy the XR but it's really the comparison of price vs value that killed that deal and got me to buy another tracer instead. I still can't believe that I did that but I'm very confident that I made the right choice. But I'll never forget those Hayes brakes. I loved them.

@bwringerI probably misused the word "wax". The stuff that was on my new bike and some other candidates looks waxy to me but I don't really know what it was. I'm totally open to even better products and am only speaking to my own experience where gear oil is a much better product than the other chain lubes I used before. Motul etc.

@KrustyKushI sure can see that a scottoiler is a great tool. I have no logical reason to dislike the system but just do. I prefer to do this job manually instead of automatically. I guess I'm just quirky that way. I'll be interested in hearing your experience with the teflon but I am biased against spraying teflon around in the environment. AFAIK that stuff is at least as bad as asbest in the long run. I could be totally wrong but that's how it's currently stored in my brain. I think I saw a documentary about teflon once and it was pretty scary.

@2and3cylindersI too clean with kerosine, works great but controversial. One time DID says you should use it and the other time they say don't use it.
You've had me worried for a second. I am sure that none of the fluids we use in/on bikes are healthy in the least, but as I do get some gear oil on my skin from time to time (even though I always put on mechanic's gloves for this quick task) I'd like to know if there is an extreme health hazard. I am happy to report that the German gear oil from Liqui Moly I use has absolutely no suspected carcinogen in it.

https://sichdatonline.chemical-check.de/Dokumente/566/10046_0022_01-11-2021_EN.pdf

(search for "carc")

When I hear the words Dupont of Teflon tough, all kinds of alarms go off in my head, but I won't preach about that. I haven't researched any of it in depth and it could be based on false data.

So for now I'm happy to stick wth my method. I just want to say that it's great to have an open in-depth discussion about this without everyone just bullying each other. I know I made the right choice staying in the fj/tracer fam.

Really, hardly any mess in my application. A lot less than that mess the dealer made with the wax.

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Goat said:

I agree on the typical use of the rear brake but I paid for rear brakes and I want it to work properly. As the rider I must have the option of how much rear brakes to apply, if at all.

My BMW has linked brakes and that system works quite well. I apply rear brakes when I want / need it, which is maybe 5% of the time, but that is hardly the point. I am not expecting it to be as strong as the BMW's but heck, I should not have to press that much to feel a good slowing effect. Added to that, the pedal was factory-installed such that it required too much ankle angle downward to get into the braking zone, and that is with the pedal adjustment all the way up. I made a video about this. I ended up having to put a pad on the pedal to bring it up to a good level where I now can press it properly. And yes since adding the pad I can activate the rear ABS, but the rear brake is still a wuss. Front brakes are quite adequate for what it is, thank God.

I just did test rides on two new S1000XR's and the front brakes have left me speechless. I did not notice anything different in the rear though. Probably because I never use it to slow down, only to stabilize.

I get your point that you want to have the option but that option does take away from the feel for those that want to use it only for minor corrections. If the entire range of feel is available for light braking that works better for me.

I agree that if you demand stopping power from the rear, then Yamaha has failed miserably. But I do think this is by design. Maybe it's because the brand has much more of a sports bike heritage than BMW that they have settled on using the rear only for corrections while BMW knows its customer base wants everything to be wunderbar? They also attract a lot of Sunday riders that may not even dare to touch the front brake. I was in an advanced rider course where a rider with a brand new GS said exactly that; "never touch the front brake, it's too dangerous". He was taught that be a certified "instructor". Unbelievable in this age, right?

Anyway, I can only say that I personally prefer it as it is. 

This has been discussed before I know but comments in this other thread made me write this and as it's so long and off-topic I thought it best to create a new thread for it.

I am a gear oil convert and have been ever since the chain on my 900GT died prematurely and I replaced it with a nice golden DID VX3. But what use is a golden chain when it's full of wax, right?

I think the main reason people get turned off by gear oil is that it takes some time to get a feel for the right amount. Too little and doesn't lubricate well enough and too much causes a lot of fling. I use a smallish very soft brush dipped in gear oil and let it run along the warm chain (all 4 sides). I do this when I get home after every long ride but can skip one or two without issue. It takes about 30 seconds.

Benefits:

-so cheap. One bottle costs 7 euro and lasts forever
-chain looks nice at all times, new even, nothing sticks to it
-sounds better, like a well oiled machine instead of a grime grinder
-very little splatter and if there is some it's very easy to wipe off
-if the chain gets dirty from foul weather, just run a rag over it and it's clean
-when travelling I fill a tiny hotel shampoo bottle, so easy

Downsides:

-smell. I don't mind it. That bubblegum bike shampoo smell, now that bothers me
-it requires some skill, not as easy as a spray-can
-you need more applications yes, but honestly I'm the first to balk at recurring choirs and this is really so quick and easy and the benefits are so plentiful. It's a no-brainer to me.

The reason I wanted to share this is that I actually have just removed the wax yesterday from this new-to-me bike and it's so much work. Never again. I had forgotten how filthy the wheels get too. Really it makes a world of difference when done right.

Bonus tip: The oil thins and spreads great through a chain that is hot from riding. After cleaning the bike the chain is cold so I pour some boiling water in a pot and put the jar that I use for the oil in it until the gear oil is nice and runny.  

On 7/3/2022 at 11:31 PM, Grumpy Goat said:

How are the rear brakes on the T9? Any different / better than the mediocre brakes on the 900 GT? Rode my RS recently and deliberately used rear brake only to check and needless to say they are quite powerful, compared to the "hint of a brake" from the rear of the Tracer.

To answer your question, they are exactly the same as on the 900GT as far as I can tell. Same parts, same feel.

14 hours ago, ZigMerid said:

I'm not sure a weak rear brake is a bad thing. Given that a rear brake is predominantly for control + adding maybe 10% to total breaking capability when applying the front brake, it must be extraordinarily weak to be noticeable.

Exactly how weak is the rear brake? Do you have to really stomp on it to get any braking effect? I would think that if a rear brake works well enough to help you control slow speed manoeuvres, then it's pretty much doing its job.

14 hours ago, Sunde said:

My rear brake is easily pushed into the ABS. Takes firm pushing on the pedeal, but not an excessive amount. If you cant activate the ABS by applying hard rear brake pressure, then IMO you need to get your brake checked
I live on the rear brake for constant small adjustments, so maybe my heavy usage leads to it having more bite? No idea although

This. I don't want more braking power on the rear. If I push hard it goes into ABS so I just want as much range as I can before that happens. 

On the 900GT I changed the front to EBC HH (sintered) and the back to EBC (organic). I think I got the advice on this forum and it was perfect for me. 

Even though I bought the bike with 3400 km on it, I still got a huge improvement by really bedding these stock pads in. By this I mean accelerating to 100km/h and braking very hard and repeating this a couple of times so the brakes get very hot. They'll never have the bite of the EBC HH's but they are now a lot better than both the demo bikes I rode.

So I've now managed to do a few longer rides on my new-to-me 2021 Tracer 9 GT.

The 2 test-rides I did before didn't do it justice at all! It just keeps getting better and better. The gearbox, the sound, the fit and finish, everything is sturdier and well.. just better (except for the visibility of the dash). I'm even starting to like the hard comfort seat over the much thicker and softer heated comfort seat on the 2019.

The brakes were an obvious weak point so I wanted to change the pads to EBC HH asap they did so much on the older bike but after some hard braking and heat cycling they are great too! Feels like a huge improvement to before. Maybe I'll just keep them. 

What's weird is that the second test-ride on a red T9GT pushed me towards the S1000XR. I was disappointed because it wasn't at al how I remembered the first test ride half a year before. But now this one is at least as good as the first one.

I would not be surprised that if you ride 20 brand new Tracers that some feel extraordinary, some feel like crap and most feel in between. It certainly is that way with guitars that come from the same assembly line. This theory occurred to me before but it didn't seem plausible. Now after riding three 2021's and reading @BVEBRAD's post I'm starting to become more convinced that this could be true.

I'm sorry to hear this.
On the other side of the spectrum I've now done a few longer rides on my 5 days new-to-me T9 and it blows my ECU-flashed–Ohlins-equipped 2019 GT out of the water. It's so much better than I had anticipated.

I had/have the heated comfort seat on the 2019 and it has always felt like a gimmick. Sometimes I've turned it on but having a hot ass does not do very much for overall comfort in my case. Heated grips on the other hand make a world of difference but you all know that. 

It is! Thanks for the tip! 

Hi Craig,

Thanks a lot! 

I had also done some experimentation but I couldn't get it high enough with the tools at my disposal. That does look neat. I don't have a bench grinder but I also have a different design. It's a Yamaha (SW Motech) tank ring and that consists of a plastic hollow piece screwed onto a metal part. I tried to add some spacers between the two but it wasn't high enough and to my surprise it didn't even work on the 900 anymore. Adding a spacer bends the plastic part which isn't even visible but causes the latch system to no longer have a secure grip. This locking system uses tiny tolerances! No surprise that the tank bag let go a while ago after a cantered U turn gone bad.

Update:

-levers are not interchangeable, +2021 has a more robust Nissin brake lever with a completely different design coming from the R1. I didn't check the clutch as I won't transfer just one lever.

-I tried the side stand enlarger and it almost fit. The foot of the sidestand is just about 1 mm too wide to fit the OEM enlarger. I could grind it down and rust treat it but I'll just get a new one I think.

-fender extender won't fit. Both fenders are different designs.

-Screen clamp is exactly the same.

I've updated the OP to reflect my findings.

Just now, Heli ATP said:

Pictures of the Tech Kamo or it didn't happen?

I know but I don't have it yet.. picking it up tomorrow.

I can post a photo of the seller's ad.

Thank you! 

I must say that none of the three colour schemes impressed me on photo.

All three look a lot better in real life. The Tech Kamo is matt like the blue 900 GT, I had no idea.

5 hours ago, MightBeSasquatch said:

I'm not much of a farkler but I definitely want a braided brake line, I think after 8k miles it's time. Might was well switch out the levers though if someone knows the fit. I'll check back in. 

Ooh, if you get that done, I'd sure be interested in your insights. Testriding the S1000XR has left me dreaming about those brakes. You may already have done this but EBC HH brake pads are a cheap and very obvious upgrade and it's the first thing that I'll do on my 9. My 900 with those pads clearly has better brakes than both 9's that I rode, even with that upgraded master cylinder on the 9.

5 hours ago, Craig in Alabama said:

The T9GT has the plastic piece in front of the fuel cap, which means the bag has to be elevated to fit.

To get around this (last September when nothing was available...) I used some metal spacers to raise the front of the mount so that the bag would clear the plastic piece, and shaved some off the back of the mount so that the cap would open fully. But it is definitely doable. I used a slightly taller spacer at the front and two shorter ones on the side. Looks pretty good if I say so myself!

I can send you some pics if that doesn't make sense.

Craig

I hadn't thought about that. Some pics would be great, thanks. I see that SW Motech have released a tank ring for the T9GT to fit on my EVO bag but it's 55 euros. If the workaround looks good I may try your workaround instead.

2 hours ago, Kenny A. said:

The side stand enlarger on the 900 GT,will NOT fit the 9GT, as the mounting 'recess' on the 9GT is straight, where as the 900 GT is angled. I had to buy a new one for my 9.(Givi) Bugger !!😡😡

Dang. Good to know! thank you.

I've updated the OP to show which parts don't fit. 

1 minute ago, OZVFR said:

I would definitely pull it out and send it far away, say to Australia for maybe $300 or so. 
Hey, that’s a coincidence, I’m after one as it happens. 

Haha, I really wish I could help you but that is literally the other side of the world. Actually New Zealand is if I'm not mistaken 

I'm not leaving you for the BMW crowd after all! No S1000XR for me.. 

Instead I found a 10 month old Tech Kamo GT with 3500 km in showroom state. Only used for twisty roads, no commuting. The price was right so I'm picking it up tomorrow.

I couldn't think of anything to mod on my 900GT anymore so I'm excited to start again from scratch. I have some questions in these threads:

I have the YA537 shock from Ohlins but will be selling the bike (bought the new 9 GT).

Would you recommend selling it with the shock as a premium bike or take it off and sell it separately? The price is 1200 Euro new and I've done 10k km's on it.

I've had it installed but now I have a motorcycle lift so I should be able to do it myself. 

What would you do?

I would like to try and salvage as many farkles from the 900 GT as I can before selling it.

If anyone can confirm any of these that would be great:

-OEM radiator guard
-engine protection. (Surely not as both the engine and frame are new)
-levers
-OEM top box and rack > top box is the same but rack is different.
-printed parts GPS holder on top of the screen clamp. I'm pretty sure that clamp is exactly the same on sight. CONFIRMED
-GIVI rear wheel hugger. the alu blocks around the rear axel look sturdier so I don't think this will fit.
-screens fit but the 9 has a smaller turning radius so it will hit most 900 screens. I have three of them and will probably sell them with the bike.
-side stand enlarger (OEM)
-tank ring (OEM rebranded SW Motech). The filler cap looks exactly the same.
-OEM led plus blinkers. They look the same so I hope they will fit.
-Puig fender extender. That riveted on so I probably should just get a new one.

*** UPDATE. Strikethrough means it does not fit out of the box. ****

2 hours ago, Sunde said:

I am 100% onboard with what you are saying.
 Having owned bikes like the GSX-S1000 and a VFR 1200, bikes that have much more "oomph" than the T9 on paper but in reality are not really "mindblowingly" more potent or fun to ride. The T9 has somewhat ruined bikes for me, in the best way possible mind you.
 But even trying my friends new Superduke (which is hillarious and nutty in all the ways you'd except) i still wasn't BLOWN AWAY compared to my T9. 
Yes it has power, but it ran kind rough and honestly did not feel very "quality".
And my T9 has all the electronic gadgets i'd want on a bike. 

The T9 really is the holy grail of totally OK. 
 Which means getting something that is plain "better" is actually quite hard.
Unless you are happy buying something twice as expensive anyway. 

that is so true, if I try to imagine never having known the Tracer 900 I probably would have thought that the XR was the holy grail and be in debt right now. it's only when getting back on the Tracer that I realised that the CP3 engine is so great, playful and balanced that it soured the XR experience. Twice in a row. (I tried to explain that on an XR forum. Big mistake  )

The KTM 1290 engine does nothing for me. The Tracer never felt more refined than after that test ride but that's another story.

Also didn't mention the hunting sensation. It's probably me because I felt it on both test bikes and BMW claims nobody complaints about this. Also on XR forums...

It's only fun to accelerate but keeping a steady speed irritates me. I expected sowing machine perfection from BMW and it just hunting and surging in all gears and at any RPM and in any mode. It's subtle yes, but it bothers me. My ECU flashed Tracer is much more stable IMO. The 9 GT without flash is also more stable so I guess it's a downside to all that top end power and EURO5 that they can't fix that. Not for me then... 

I could maybe live with one of these 2 big downsides but not both. And I don't want to flash a BMW as they make it very clear that you lose all warranty. And I think I would need that warranty, having owned a 5 series car in the past.

So, I did two one-hour test-rides and I'm going to pass. I love the way you sit on the bike, the brakes, dash and electronics are so great and I so want them but the character of the bike just makes no sense for me. 

It is very fast and I love the rush but it didn't scare me contrary to what I had expected. Took it to the redline and rode around in Dynamic mode and Dynamic pro but it don't want to ride around waiting for that power to come in above 7K RPM. It is a sports bike and I would love to own it but I only have room for one bike and the Tracer makes so much more sense. I'm looking at upgrading to the 9 GT again even though it is a real eyesore compared to the XR IMO. 

It was really hard but I'm going to chose function over form.

45 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

a buddy has a 15 xr and thinks it literally is the greatest thing since sliced bagels.  And he paid 7k for it as a recertified used bike.  Hes' never mentioned surging.  I hate him cuz it's also red.

I got some reactions that this is not normal. Maybe life wanted to give me another lemon bike but I dodged it this time. I'm going to try and test ride another one.

Do you hate him because it's red or because it's red that's faster than fastest red? 

Took her out and cheated on her right in front of her with a lovely sleek Ice Grey BMW S1000XR, a vixen half her age. (full option 21 model) 

I was ready to leave her but I've come crawling back with my tail between my legs.

The XR surges and hunts all over the rev range in any mode. The extra high BMW screen sucks as bad as the Tracers. I much enjoyed the looks, seating position, electronics, smoothness apart from the surging, the display (they really nailed it) but the tracer actually put a grin on my face when I rode back home. Power everywhere. 

I am disappointed because I was committed to start a new adventure and have been known to stubbornly follow through when I set my mind on something but I must be getting wiser because I must admit to myself that I already have the better bike (for me).