Fuel in oil (suspected)

[Forevertwowheels]

23 minutes ago, peteinpa said:

Wait a second.  In your other post about leaking water pump you  said you pulled it and replaced it.

Can you do that without changing ANY seals???

Might be where coolant is getting into the oil.

How's the coolant bottle level??

You are supposed to change a few seals when pulling the pump, 17 & 10 in the drawing attached. I did not change them. I get the logic but if this is the issue I’d be really shocked that the oil looks/smells as normal as it does while taking on the amount of coolant needed to raise the oil level. Blackstone will check coolant % when they get my sample as well.

 

edit again: coolant level has not changed in the ~2000 miles since it was changed  

Edited July 1, 2022 by Forevertwowheels

[knyte]

not sure if this helps, but I had to replace more than just 10 & 17 (I would think 11, too):

 

[Forevertwowheels]

4 minutes ago, knyte said:

not sure if this helps, but I had to replace more than just 10 & 17 (I would think 11, too):

 

Sorry I meant to say 10 & 17 were the only 2 (that needed to be replaced) that would allow oil/coolant cross contamination.

[PhotoAl]

For years I've noticed that the oil level changes depending on how long it been since its run.  I always fill then run and check after 5 or 10 minutes and aim to be close to the top line but not over.  Next morning it will be over the line but if run and then checked after 5 or 10 minutes it's where I expect it to be.  I think it is oil on the clutch plates takes longer to drain down as well as some in the gearbox but have no analytical proof.  My BMW F800GT had a semi elaborate system to check the oil level - basically check it hot.  I had a service agreement and most of the time I had it it was under warranty.  I checked it a few times, it never used oil.  I just rode it and didn't worry about it.  I've tended to treat my Tracer GT the same.  Use good oil and check it but change it when it is time and the rest of the time don't worry about it.  

[skipperT]

On 6/30/2022 at 8:15 PM, Forevertwowheels said:

Sorry I meant to say 10 & 17 were the only 2 (that needed to be replaced) that would allow oil/coolant cross contamination.

No this is incorrect.  They can allow cross contamination but the usual failure point is the mechanical seal (#7 above) (usually a coolant leak from the weep hole area of the pump) and an oil seal which will allow coolant into the oil if it fails (either 5 or 6 above, one is the bearing and the other probably the oil seal.)

It’s also a good idea to replace the shaft along with the seals, as the shaft and seal “wear into each other” over time. 

the other possibility that hasn’t been mentioned is an oil cooler internal failure which would allow the 2 fluids to mix. 
 

-Skip

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by skipperT

[peteinpa]

Forgot about the oil cooler.

I'd wait till bike is fully cooled, put on centerstand and remove radiator cap. Check the level there and look for oil contamination there 

[skipperT]

3 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Forgot about the oil cooler.

I'd wait till bike is fully cooled, put on centerstand and remove radiator cap. Check the level there and look for oil contamination there 

Just so you’re aware, presence, or lack of - oil at the radiator cap DOES NOT guarantee that the water pump oil seal or mechanical seal are solid. 
Sending out the oil sample for a contamination check is a great diagnostic “next step” that @Forevertwowheels has done IMHO.  

-Skip

[Forevertwowheels]

Update: oil sample is on its way to the lab now. Rode some miles over the weekend, coolant level still exactly where it was 2,000 miles ago.  No milkshake look in oil.  No oil in radiator.  Oil level seemed to stay steady  

A few oil lab companies online make note that fuel in oil usually burns off when the engine is brought to temp. More things to think about til the results come back.

Until then….

[OZVFR]

All those people who are saying it could be coolant leaking into oil have obviously never seen oil that has coolant mixed with it. 
Guarantee that it’s not the problem here, you would know as soon as you look at it.
It’s just a Tracer thing.  

[skipperT]

5 hours ago, OZVFR said:

All those people who are saying it could be coolant leaking into oil have obviously never seen oil that has coolant mixed with it. 
Guarantee that it’s not the problem here, you would know as soon as you look at it.
It’s just a Tracer thing.  

I’ve seen it Many, Many times over the years and I know what it looks like.

It’s insulting to me that you make an assumption about what I and/or other posting members have seen or what I/we know based on your disagreement about POTENTIAL failure possibilities that the collective have written down in this thread.

gentle reminder that we can agree to disagree, but still be respectful to each other while doing so.

-S

Edited July 6, 2022 by skipperT

[peteinpa]

Yeah, The few ounces of coolant in the oil required to raise the level ARE NOT enough to cause the whole sump to look like a milkshake.

Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us that do.

JK of course.🙂

Edited July 6, 2022 by peteinpa

[Cogswell]

Level looks good to me.

[peteinpa]

Perfect. Keeps the inspection window nice and clean too!

[OZVFR]

17 hours ago, skipperT said:

I’ve seen it Many, Many times over the years and I know what it looks like.

It’s insulting to me that you make an assumption about what I and/or other posting members have seen or what I/we know based on your disagreement about POTENTIAL failure possibilities that the collective have written down in this thread.

gentle reminder that we can agree to disagree, but still be respectful to each other while doing so.

-S

You must be very easily insulted then. Grow some skin man.

I still stand by what I said, I'm sure it's not coolant as it would be easily recognisable.

 

[Forevertwowheels]

If the results show high coolant % I am confident in my ability to identify the cause (oil cooler, head gasket, water pump)

if the results show high fuel % I would like to first test the injectors. Does anyone know if I can just pull the rail with injectors still installed and prime the fuel pump to look for leakage?  Or do I need to have them tested off of the bike?

This is still just speculation until oil sample results come in, thanks everyone for the input so far.