24,000 Mile Valve clearance

[SlipperyNiblets]

All, as far as I know I am doing the 1st valve clearance check at 24,000 miles. I am the 2nd owner of this bike and I have no previous records. My measurements are below and because this is my first time doing this I was wondering if somebody could double check my numbers. Bike is a 2015 FJ09

 

Spec from my Hanes manual: Exhaust .26-.30mm, Intake .11-.20mm

 

Cyl 1.                                 Cyl 2.                      Cyl 3 

 

Exhaust                            Exhaust                  Exhaust

.154++*; .22-                    .178-; .20-               .20+;.254+

 

Intake                              Intake                      Intake

.13; .152+                        .152;.152+                .127;.127-- (.127 is the smallest feeler I have and it did not fit)

*(.178 is the next size up and it was very hard to get in there)

+= little resistance

++ = very little resistance

-= drag

--= very tight

It looks like all of my exhaust are tight which is what seems to be expected on the forum, across the valves is seems I would go down in shim size by .1 and .05 for cylinder 1, .1 and .1 for cyl 2 and .05 and .05 for cyl 3. It looks like shims come in .05mm increments. My question is do these sizes look correct and should I adjust my intake shims to bring them more into the middle of the range? Some people seem to leave the intakes alone if they are in spec, some like to do it now and avoid the headache next interval.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Stay Slippery.

[KrustyKush]

Probably just depends on how much a stickler for precision you are.  As long as the valve is somewhere between minimum and maximum, it is fine.  Most would just leave it alone.  Surely, a tech being paid to do this job would not touch a valve shim that was anywhere within the range.  Doing it myself, I would bend over backwards to make each valve exactly where I wanted it, even if it didn't matter a whit, and it almost surely doesn't.

By 26k miles, the valves are well broken in and shouldn't move much after that.  I personally do not like the 26k interval.  I had found a real tight valve on a Royal Star years ago after waiting 26k to do the first check.  After that, I decided I would do it around 12k the first time.  When I did my 21 9GT at 12k I found two exhaust valves that were closer than minimum.  Both on cylinder #3.  I adjusted those, and left the others alone, even though the other 4 exhaust valves were nearing minimum, but not there. I will do this again at 26k.

It may also depend on how long you aim to keep the bike.

[knyte]

A couple of recent threads come to mind:

and

So, it depends on your school of thought:

Some feel that within spec is good enough.  It will still perform well, and you know for certain that a valve service is coming.

Some feel that if you're in there anyway, and you plan on keeping the bike a while, set the valves to the loose end of the spec.  The shop that just did my bike did this without asking, because they knew I'm keeping it.  Now I know exactly where it's at, and that the next check will be 35k- 40k kms.

[dazzler24]

Another thread that I recommend you read is this one.

You'll find some great advice and a mention about shims that come in 0.025 increments from a couple of suppliers if you want to get closer to the specs.  Also don't forget that the Yamaha ones already in your bike can be oddball sizes and that you may be able to shuffle some around to get what you need.

For example these are the shim sizes in my 2015 bike....

Hope that helps.

[SlipperyNiblets]

Thanks for the help all, I'll set them all to the loosest in the range as I plan on keeping the bike for a while, dazzler, I did find weird sizes like 181, 184, 198 and 199. I think it would bug me to know I have intake valves on the tight side so I'll set them loose, I got all winter in Michigan to get them right. I'll post my final measurements once I get the new shims in. 

[skipperT]

IMHO, I would set the Exhaust to the loose side of spec, however the intakes don’t seem to move very much. So I would choose 0.006”- 0.007” (.15-.18mm if memory serves) as the zone for Intake spec. That gives you wiggle room if they decide to loosen up down the road and would still be in spec. 

The intake valves don’t move much in my experience as long as you’re not running a K&N filter or the like and you keep up with regular paper filter replacement intervals. 
YMMV,

-Skip

[knyte]

3 hours ago, skipperT said:

The intake valves don’t move much in my experience as long as you’re not running a K&N filter or the like and you keep up with regular paper filter replacement intervals. 

This is a key point IMHO.  The way it was explained to me is that it's not so much the sandblast effect as it is if the valve closes on a bit of grit...this can degrade the valve seat(s).

@skipperTWhat's your opinion on the Yamaha Racing washable filters in this respect?  I'm not sold on K&N (for this application), but the Yamaha filters seem like far better quality.

[texscottyd]

54 minutes ago, skipperT said:

The intake valves don’t move much in my experience as long as you’re not running a K&N filter or the like and you keep up with regular paper filter replacement intervals. 

Ok, now I’m intrigued.   There are a lot of things mentioned on the forum that I just overlook as ‘yeah, whatever’ opinions, but I absolutely recognize and respect your experience with these bikes.  

So… can you elaborate a bit? 

[KrustyKush]

Interesting aside, not to derail the thread...Speaking of air filters.  My 2007 Yamaha Royal Star Venture had two air filters, one located in each of the two air boxes, which were mounted high behind the lowers.  This gave the Venture a large capacity air box to feed its powerful V4 engine.  The filter elements were paper, and had no replacement interval.  The instructions for service were to remove the filter element, blow from inside with low pressure air, and re-install.  Every 4k miles, as I recall.  I would do this, but it seemed like a waste of time to me.  So I tended to simply replace the elements every 12k or so.

As for valve adjust intervals, the Venture adhered to the 26, 600 (30km) interval, just like every other Yamaha.

[Eventhorizon]

I had this talk with other forum members on other bike sites, and it comes down to the bottom line is "within spec is within spec" according to the service manual as they specify how to measure. If it fails the specifications of the service manual as they specify then you change. Typically this is a Go - No Go with feelers and not really with the "drag" of the feelers.

For example with the exhaust .26-.30mm, if you can get a .26mm in there, straight with drag, it still passes. If you cant, then its out of spec. If you don't care to measure where they are and you just want to know if it passes hit all the valves with the smallest spec and go from there.

That being said there are those that with the first valve check will just go ahead and re shim to the biggest gap allowed and then call it done for the life of the engine. I personally re shimmed one bike to middle of spec just because that is how its supposed to come from the factory. Just make sure that all the intakes and exhaust valves are the same number, what ever number you pick.

Is it possible, that unless your really hitting the motor hard and racing it, that your valves are not going to change anymore (that you can measure) and your set for life.

So that being said, is it better to leave it "tight but in spec" or "very loose but within spec".

Loose but in spec: valve lift is lower and duration is shorter (good for torque)

Tight but in spec valve lift is higher and duration is longer (high revving motors)

I can in my mind not really see a bit power difference, and i don't think anyone cared to dyno a CP3 engine with tight and loose specs to see what the real difference are.

I would think that if your going to re-shim you should go ahead and sync up the throttle bodies while there. I'm sure that they are off too.

[RaYzerman]

Smart man to reshim until all uniform, bike will smooth out...... yes you should do a TB sync, as that changes when valve clearances are changed.

As for "set for life", from what I read, I'd do a second check down the road at or beyond the next interval and verify if they changed to any appreciable degree.... I get the impression from some discussions on the subject with regard to this engine that they do.  If anyone has real data on that subject, that would be helpful.

[SlipperyNiblets]

@skipperT I am running a K&N, I usually run OEM but I had to change it and the Yamaha ones were out of stock, you are saying a K&N filters less, increases wear on the engine and causes the valves to fall out of spec sooner? 

[SlipperyNiblets]

Here is my spreadsheet, and at the bottom are the shims I am ordering. Does this pass the common sense test? 

[skipperT]

8 hours ago, knyte said:

This is a key point IMHO.  The way it was explained to me is that it's not so much the sandblast effect as it is if the valve closes on a bit of grit...this can degrade the valve seat(s).

@skipperTWhat's your opinion on the Yamaha Racing washable filters in this respect?  I'm not sold on K&N (for this application), but the Yamaha filters seem like far better quality.

I’m not sure who makes them for Yamaha (twin air, K&N?) but as long as they’re serviced regularly and NOT dried with compressed air then the filters should work as designed, IMHO. 

I don’t think it’s quite as important on our bikes as it would be in any off-road application. 

-S

[skipperT]

8 hours ago, texscottyd said:

Ok, now I’m intrigued.   There are a lot of things mentioned on the forum that I just overlook as ‘yeah, whatever’ opinions, but I absolutely recognize and respect your experience with these bikes.  

So… can you elaborate a bit? 

*Blush*
Sure. I’ve seen too many bikes with K&N air cleaners installed where the owner just neglects the maintenance. Installed at one point and never cleaned for thousands of miles/kms. I’ve also experienced intake valves going tighter over time on those bikes with neglected air cleaners, as evidenced by the measured Intake valve clearance and by what I’ve wiped away with my finger in the carbs/TB’s. 

If you install a reusable filter, service them regularly. Even when they’re just “a little bit dirty”. And don’t dry them with compressed air. I also hold them up to the light after I’ve cleaned them to make sure they aren’t developing small sand-blast like holes in the filter material. If I see that, I toss it and re-install a stock paper filter. 

IMHO the quote-unquote “gains” aren’t worth it. More environmentally friendly? Absolutely. 

YMMV, 

Skip