Electronic Suspension (9GT+, others?)

[piotrek]

Trying to weigh the value, pros/cons of an electronic suspension against a manually adjustable quality aftermarket kit. It is early for the 9GT/+ experiences/comparisons, but maybe experiences from other bikes just as a point of reference?

I am guessing the electronic suspension will dynamically adjust (not just pre-ride setup), but there are still some constants like the spring rate, valving min/max limits etc. Will this suspension adjust properly up to the rated weight bearing of the bike?... unlike what we found on earlier models. There's been much talk on here about upgrading springs/valving, and suspension kits, to fix things for riders weighing ~200 lb or more + luggage/pillion etc. Wondering if this would now no longer be an issue on the 9GT.

Suspension maintenance is another question. I am sure it's subject to the similar mileage/time based routine. I really value the ability to do maintenance work myself, and wonder if this would now require me to send my suspension to a shop for simple things like replacing oil, bushings etc.

Thoughts, opinions, or first-hand experience with electronic suspensions?

[2and3cylinders]

With all the problems with the T9 and cost

I'll stick with my well sorted Fastest Red 15...

One thing I noticed today was. I've had the damping and preload shut up. Pretty much perfect for fully loaded tank bag. Hard panniers and top case, but realized today it's a little stiff when I'm just running a tank bag and the small top box. Does it bother me? Not really, it's such a sweet motor.

[betoney]

5 hours ago, piotrek said:

Trying to weigh the value, pros/cons of the "plus" suspension against a manually adjustable quality aftermarket kit, as say an upgrade to the standard 9GT. It is early for the 9GT/+ experiences/comparisons, but maybe experiences from other bikes?

I am guessing the electronic suspension will dynamically adjust (not just pre-ride setup), but there are still some constants like the spring rate, valving min/max limits etc. Will this suspension adjust properly up to the rated weight bearing of the bike?... unlike what we found on earlier models. There's been much talk on here about upgrading springs/valving, and suspension kits, to fix things for riders weighing ~200 lb or more + luggage/pillion etc. Wondering if this would now no longer be an issue on the 9GT+.

Suspension maintenance is another question. I am sure it's subject to the similar mileage/time based routine. I really value the ability to do maintenance work myself, and wonder if this would now require me to send my suspension to a shop for simple things like replacing oil, bushings etc.

Thoughts, opinions, or first-hand experience?

There are some ES models which have much more sophisticated systems than others, some will auto set your preload (sag) for your weight and/or if you ride with a passenger and auto level when the bike is turned on, Harley Davidson Pan America offers the adaptive ride height, others link in the 6 axis IMU and can detect a steep downhill and if braking or turning they will stiffen or slightly extend to prevent excessive brake dive or forward weight transfer.  On the Super Tenere and FJR you could change perload and damping in the menus with separate settings for compression and rebound, while the current Tracer9 just has hard and soft or street and sport? - Somebody with a '21-'22 please correct that info. for me.

I have never even ridden a bike with ES, let alone serviced one so I am guessing but I believe the servo motors for damping are part of the cartridge.  I believe the fork oil could be changed similarly to a conventional cartridge fork, like a quick dump and run but a full service is sure to have a few different  steps.  As far as the shock goes, whether its conventional or electronic you probably are not going to service that yourself unless you have special tools for the high pressure nitrogen.

[piotrek]

Thanks @betoney. I understand that these various systems exist, but wondered it they truly are a one-size-fits-all, and where are the compromises outside of the inability to adjust manually (moot point maybe if it works well) and possibly spending a small fortune on maintenance due to system complexity. Is the suspension subject to on-bike calibration by the dealer once maintenance is done... etc. Yeah, I resigned myself to sending my shock out for service. My Nitron is due for some TLC this winter.

I wrongly assumed that the 9GT+ came with electronic suspension while the 9GT didn't. I see that both do... but questions remain just the same I suppose. I tweaked the opening post to suit.

[OZVFR]

Not an Tracer, but my mate has three Triumph 1200 Explorers.

Fist model, second model and third model. (don't ask)

The last two both have ESA, and the first had the suspension redone with correct springs and Gold Valves by Racetech, the other two are stock.

The second has over 75000km on it and untouched, I have ridden all of them on long trips and can definitely say that the ESA is much much better than the Racetech set up. The third is better again, but it could be to being a fair bit lighter than the previous two.

The ability to change damping and preload on the go in a fraction of a second shouldn't be underestimated. Comfortable one second, hit a corner hard the next under brakes and it displays no dive and mind bending amounts of grip no matter the surface, and this is still a heavy bike on skinny tyres.

Best thing since sliced bread.

 

[piotrek]

Thanks @OZVFR. Sounds pretty convincing. 75,000 km w/o any service work a bit of a stretch, but I guess it worked just fine. My riding buddy had good things to say about the system on the Versys 1000. It's the maintenance bit that I'd now like to understand better. Maybe someone with the 9GT (other?) service manual could add something here.

[OZVFR]

I can’t say I know, but I don’t think servicing should be any harder that normal USD forks. 
You could always just ring your local suspension shop and ask. 
And yes, 75000km is too long, but he bought the bike with 50000km on it so not sure if it’s been done, and I must say it still handled superbly 

Edited August 17, 2023 by OZVFR

[The Pilot]

Motorcyclist magazine said it best about the 9 GT’s suspension. I have ridden lots of higher end systems on BMW’s and they were great… the 9 GT’s left a lot to be desired. Servicing it is not much different than a normal suspension, just a few wires to disconnect typically. 

“The KYB semi-active suspension is decent, and it’s neat that Yamaha added this feature to the bike. But the actual function of the semi-active suspension is meh; we’ve ridden other bikes with semi-active suspension that performed near-magically. Around town the Tracer 9 handles nicely, soaking up the bumps well. But when you’re getting some in the corners on a favorite curvy road, it has a tendency to get a little bit unglued. Still, most can certainly live with the minor disappointment given the bike’s day-to-day capability.”

[jthayer09]

After 2 years with my T9GT I still stand by my statement about the suspension that "it's the best compromise you'll ever make". It's 90% of the performance of the Ohlins setup I had on my 2015 FJ09 but the addition of being able to change damping at the press of a button is amazingly convenient.

However, I cannot get the front sorted out to my liking. I am 185lbs so I'm not much heavier than who these bikes are designed for. Sag is set properly, the rear is compliant, but like @The Pilot mentioned from Motorcyclist magazine above, the front does start to squirm a little bit when you are really pushing hard. The problem with the GT is that there are only 2 presets for damping: "comfort" and "sport". Comfort is fine for what it's designed for, but sport isn't quite stiff enough when you really want to carve corners. There needs to be a 3rd "track" setting at the very least or there should be granular control over damping instead of just 2 presets.

That being said, if the base model Tracer 9 were offered in the US I would have bought that instead of the GT and put my own suspension and luggage on it.

My primary riding buddy has a '22 Superduke 1290 with the fully active suspension including auto-leveling, anti-dive, full electronic adjustment of preload, rebound, etc; I envy him.

I looked at the manual and service of the shocks and forks don't look any different than a traditional setup other than disconnecting more wires and then running the calibration tool from the settings on the bike.

[Ride365]

Install proper weight springs in the front and a proper spring swap for the rear.........PRESTO!!!!! 

[jthayer09]

11 hours ago, Ride365 said:

Install proper weight springs in the front and a proper spring swap for the rear.........PRESTO!!!!! 

That is going to ultimately be the solution. But I'm of the opinion that a $15K motorcycle shouldn't require new springs for a 185lb rider, that's within adjustable range. I think my takeaway is that it feels like Yamaha is artificially limiting the suspension performance of the bike by only giving us two electronic presets; there should be more range of adjustment.

I never had an issue with the FJ09. Sure after installing a custom suspension setup to exactly suit my weight was much better. But I didn't have an issue using the stock parts until they were worn by just dialing everything up.

Sidenote: I'll be in your neighborhood to do OH-555 the first or second weekend of September 🤘

[Ride365]

15 minutes ago, jthayer09 said:

That is going to ultimately be the solution. But I'm of the opinion that a $15K motorcycle shouldn't require new springs for a 185lb rider, that's within adjustable range. I think my takeaway is that it feels like Yamaha is artificially limiting the suspension performance of the bike by only giving us two electronic presets; there should be more range of adjustment.

I never had an issue with the FJ09. Sure after installing a custom suspension setup to exactly suite my weight was much better. But I didn't have an issue using the stock parts until they were worn by just dialing everything up.

Sidenote: I'll be in your neighborhood to do OH-555 the first or second weekend of September 🤘

555 overall is a cluster, there are much better roads in Ohio to ride. Pick 555 up off route 78 "awesome road with new pavement" and then ride the triple nickel down to the river. Head to Marietta and ride 26/536/260/800......now those are some fine roads!!! I will argue that most stock motorcycles all have too soft of springs in them regardless of price unless it's perhaps a factory Ohlins set up, just like we replace shields/seats/brakes/exhausts....etc, there are many things which are rider preferable that need dialed in. And a $15k motorcycle isn't expensive these days, but IMHO the Tracer line up is some of the best bang for the buck out there. I do agree that Yamaha may be cheaping out a bit on ESA settings, as my buddy on his $26K 1250GS has an ESA suspension that blows his mind.  Careful on 555, it's a dangerous road for many reasons.........take care and have fun!

[piotrek]

Some great feedback. I found an article at Motorcyclist Online that hits some of the right/relevant points. It's a little dated, but still very relevant.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/electronic-suspension-motorcycle-suspension-tips-mc-garage-how-to/

Interestingly, it notes that these suspensions may still be subject to re-springing/valving to suit rider/load weight outside the factory baselines. Sounds familiar.

[Ride365]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:35 PM, piotrek said:

Some great feedback. I found an article at Motorcyclist Online that hits some of the right/relevant points. It's a little dated, but still very relevant.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/electronic-suspension-motorcycle-suspension-tips-mc-garage-how-to/

Interestingly, it notes that these suspensions may still be subject to re-springing/valving to suit rider/load weight outside the factory baselines. Sounds familiar.

Before my bud got the latest 1250GS, he had the top of the line Honda Africa Twin with ESA. He found it very under sprung regardless of how well it still worked, and had the front springs and rear shock spring replaced, it's just a fact that most Japanese bikes are set for 160 pound riders, where as Euro and American machines typically have heavier springs overall. I am about to upgrade the suspension on my 20GT, going with .90 KTech springs and a new KTech fully adjustable shock. 

[2and3cylinders]

It is the Way...