What amp fuse have yall switched to for the accessory port?

[Chlocker]

3 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Some guy 👍

But Chlocker is not very appreciative of our help...

It's not that I'm not appreciative. It's that yall are answering a question I didn't ask. I do appreciate someguy's response, I know a dedicated charging circuit is the actual correct answer instead of gambling on the accessory port. But I also want to see if anyone has any experiance changing that fuse out to a higher amperage. 

 

Reference:

Where 3 members mentioned changing the fuse to a higher amperage. 

That thread is dead (1 year old). I don't want to necro this thread. I opened this thread to gather further information. 

[2and3cylinders]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:31 PM, Chlocker said:

In Pic #3 what is that that's holding the cable? The little wire keeper that's holding it to the phone mount? 

So you didn't ask the above question,  and I didn't answer it?

[jthayer09]

4 hours ago, Chlocker said:

It's not that I'm not appreciative. It's that yall are answering a question I didn't ask. I do appreciate someguy's response, I know a dedicated charging circuit is the actual correct answer instead of gambling on the accessory port. But I also want to see if anyone has any experiance changing that fuse out to a higher amperage. 

You're not getting many answers to your original question because not many people replace fuses with higher ratings because it is unsafe for your machine and yourself. There are other solutions that don't bring that risk with it.

Last time I was involved in an accessory fuse thread I got a bit spicy to the point some members DM'd me so I'll try to keep this a bit more civil this time:

7 hours ago, Hollybrook said:

A fuse is to protect the wires, not the device connected to them. I suspect the wires are capable of more than 2A over a short distance like this situation. 

I replaced a 2A auxiliary fuse with a 7.5A one on my Tenere 700 with no issues. 

@Hollybrook captures this well but I will elaborate a bit more, the fuse protects the circuit, and is matched to the weakest wire in the circuit. Now, in a perfect world your positive wire would be the weakest and it would be 16AWG that is short (sub 5ft) which has a max load of 7.5A and you swap out fuses and you're good to go. But, since Yamaha made it a 2.0A fuse, it's suspected it's a small and thin wire that probably can't take high amperage continuously. You might be fine swapping to a higher fuse, or you might blow up 🤷‍♂️

As @someguy points out and what I think is fairly common knowledge is that Watts = Amps x Volts. Your Galaxy S24 supports USB PD (Power Delivery). USB PD spec has many variable ways to increase wattage without stepping up the amps, but rather increasing voltage, and all of this is negotiated between the host device and the charger. So you don't even need to replace the fuse, just find a charger that steps up the volts while leaving the amperage at 2.0A or lower.

Here's an Anker charger that can do 30W by utilizing 15V=2A or 20V=1.5A. However, you might still blow your fuse if for some reason your phone negotiates with the charger to continuously use the 5V=3A/9V=3A/12V=2.5A steps. You could theoretically buy a generic USB cable that is limited to 1.5A to force the negotiation to always use the 20V=1.5A step. Point still stands you can find a PD charger that can give you decent wattage by stepping up the volts and not the amps.

Of course, if you want more you can always just buy an external charger that goes directly to your battery as others have pointed out. I've always liked this solution because it extends the SAE pigtail further from the bike anyway to put on a trickle charger.

Funny thing is, you might not even get higher charging speeds while on the bike due to thermal throttling. My phone will do 65W charging on a PD charger plugged into a wall. But that's only with the screen off and idle, while using the phone it drops down to 30W-35W. When plugged into my car charger that will do 45W PD, it's generally between 12W-15W with navigation and music playing. You can download a battery monitoring app like BatteryGuru and check this for yourself, see how your phone handles charging negotiation when in use. Knowing this, a 10W charger may not have any practical difference than a fast charger on the bike.

So like, why replace the fuse and risk damage to the motorcycle and yourself when you can just buy a modern charger that has higher voltage stepping? Or, full send it and replace the fuse and report back to us.

EDIT: For science I'm just going to buy the Anker charger and let you guys know if it's smart enough to not blow the fuse by using the two lower amperage steps.

[2and3cylinders]

I may have cheated and put like a 3 or 3 and a 1/2 amp. I've been because I think the gauge of the wires is about 22 gauge. Maybe yeah, so 3 and a 1/2 is the limit.

[2and3cylinders]

 With DC gauge of the wire is everything the lower the gauge number and we're talking stranded wire, not solid core, the more amperage the wire can handle same goes with the ground

[Chlocker]

7 hours ago, Hollybrook said:

A fuse is to protect the wires, not the device connected to them. I suspect the wires are capable of more than 2A over a short distance like this situation. 

I replaced a 2A auxiliary fuse with a 7.5A one on my Tenere 700 with no issues. 

This is what I'm looking for. Different bike but I'm still interested. What have you used that to power? How often do you use it? How long is the longest time you've used it in one session? I'm assuming you've probably charged a phone with it, what phone and if possible what adaptor? 

 

20 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I may have cheated and put like a 3 or 3 and a 1/2 amp. I've been because I think the gauge of the wires is about 22 gauge. Maybe yeah, so 3 and a 1/2 is the limit.

Same questions as above. 

 

1 hour ago, jthayer09 said:

You're not getting many answers to your original question because not many people replace fuses with higher ratings because it is unsafe for your machine and yourself. There are other solutions that don't bring that risk with it.

Last time I was involved in an accessory fuse thread I got a bit spicy to the point some members DM'd me so I'll try to keep this a bit more civil this time:

@Hollybrook captures this well but I will elaborate a bit more, the fuse protects the circuit, and is matched to the weakest wire in the circuit. Now, in a perfect world your positive wire would be the weakest and it would be 16AWG that is short (sub 5ft) which has a max load of 7.5A and you swap out fuses and you're good to go. But, since Yamaha made it a 2.0A fuse, it's suspected it's a small and thin wire that probably can't take high amperage continuously. You might be fine swapping to a higher fuse, or you might blow up 🤷‍♂️

As @someguy points out and what I think is fairly common knowledge is that Watts = Amps x Volts. Your Galaxy S24 supports USB PD (Power Delivery). USB PD spec has many variable ways to increase wattage without stepping up the amps, but rather increasing voltage, and all of this is negotiated between the host device and the charger. So you don't even need to replace the fuse, just find a charger that steps up the volts while leaving the amperage at 2.0A or lower.

Here's an Anker charger that can do 30W by utilizing 15V=2A or 20V=1.5A. However, you might still blow your fuse if for some reason your phone negotiates with the charger to continuously use the 5V=3A/9V=3A/12V=2.5A steps. You could theoretically buy a generic USB cable that is limited to 1.5A to force the negotiation to always use the 20V=1.5A step. Point still stands you can find a PD charger that can give you decent wattage by stepping up the volts and not the amps.

Of course, if you want more you can always just buy an external charger that goes directly to your battery as others have pointed out. I've always liked this solution because it extends the SAE pigtail further from the bike anyway to put on a trickle charger.

Funny thing is, you might not even get higher charging speeds while on the bike due to thermal throttling. My phone will do 65W charging on a PD charger plugged into a wall. But that's only with the screen off and idle, while using the phone it drops down to 30W-35W. When plugged into my car charger that will do 45W PD, it's generally between 12W-15W with navigation and music playing. You can download a battery monitoring app like BatteryGuru and check this for yourself, see how your phone handles charging negotiation when in use. Knowing this, a 10W charger may not have any practical difference than a fast charger on the bike.

So like, why replace the fuse and risk damage to the motorcycle and yourself when you can just buy a modern charger that has higher voltage stepping? Or, full send it and replace the fuse and report back to us.

EDIT: For science I'm just going to buy the Anker charger and let you guys know if it's smart enough to not blow the fuse by using the two lower amperage steps.

I have this anker charger

 

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Compact-Adapter-Included/dp/B0BSVB93DK

 

And it DOES blow the fuse using the C ports. I bought it thinking that it would autonegotiate the 2amp max. It is intermittent as the fuse will last me a couple days with around 3 hours of usage a day before blowing. So far I've replaced 3 fuses in the month-ish I've owned my 9gt.

[Chlocker]

I've never used battery guru, I use accubattery and it does show me hitting 25w+ charging while I'm moving. I'm usually getting 20% to 80% charge cycles driving to and from work which is about 50 minutes. 

[jthayer09]

15 minutes ago, Chlocker said:

I've never used battery guru, I use accubattery and it does show me hitting 25w+ charging while I'm moving. I'm usually getting 20% to 80% charge cycles driving to and from work which is about 50 minutes. 

Nice, leave it Samsung to have a solid passive cooling design.

I can report back with the other Anker charger after it arrives tomorrow. Looking like you might wanna try your chances with a 3A fuse though.

[Hollybrook]

When evaluating what fuse you should use in a DC circuit, you need three things: the total length X2 (i.e. from the battery and back); the gauge of the wire; and the allowable voltage drop. For a cigarette lighter circuit I'd use a 10% drop. The wiring looks to be about 16ga. From a typical chart (I used Blue Sea Systems), you can go up to 20' at 10A in this case.

This means as long as the wire is 10' long or less, you can fuse up to 10A safely.

Edited May 18 by Hollybrook

[2and3cylinders]

No way the 2 auxiliary circuits in question are 16 ga stranded.

More like 20 or 22 in eq metric size.

There's a reason they're rated at only 2 amps.

[Chlocker]

2 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

No way the 2 auxiliary circuits in question are 16 ga stranded.

More like 20 or 22 in eq metric size.

There's a reason they're rated at only 2 amps.

Correct me if I am wrong. 

 

Aren't the heater grips circuit rated a 7.5a and the second unused aux circuit at 10a? 

 

3 hours ago, Hollybrook said:

When evaluating what fuse you should use in a DC circuit, you need three things: the total length X2 (i.e. from the battery and back); the gauge of the wire; and the allowable voltage drop. For a cigarette lighter circuit I'd use a 10% drop. The wiring looks to be about 16ga. From a typical chart (I used Blue Sea Systems), you can go up to 20' at 10A in this case.

This means as long as the wire is 10' long or less, you can fuse up to 10A safely.

Can you show where you see these wires are 16g?

[Chlocker]

25 minutes ago, Chlocker said:

Aren't the heater grips circuit rated a 7.5a and the second unused aux circuit at 10a? 

Correction: unused circuit is 2amp.

[Hollybrook]

@2and3cylinders @Chlocker I pulled the side panels off my '22 T9GT and the wires appear to be 20-22ga, as 2and3cylinders posted.  The wires on my T7 are heavier duty as I recall and probably 16-18ga, but I cannot get to that bike in the garage at the moment to confirm.

That said, a 22ga wire can conduct 7-10A, as long as you can deal with the voltage drop due to its resistance.  Using the omni calculator (https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/12v-wire-size) for 12V wiring, you can use 22ga wire for 4' (one way) at 7.5A with a 10% voltage drop. With 10A at 5', the calculator increases the wire gauge to 20AWG.

We each have to decide on our level of safety.  I am an electrical engineer with over 20 years of experience with 12V wiring in the marine environment, where the ABYC recommends safety standards.  I'm not sure I would do 7.5A sustained on a 22AWG wire, unless I knew it was a high quality, tinned copper wire, and I would be happier at 5A.

My original comment was clear to point out that I made the fuse change on my T700, and it was done on the road during a long trip.  The 2A fuse would handle my 90W cigarette lighter adapter or my Garmin Zumo XT2, but not both at the same time.  I suspect a 5A fuse would have been fine, but I had to remove a bunch of luggage to get to the fuses and did not want to do that twice, so I used a 7.5A fuse.

Edited May 20 by Hollybrook

[Chlocker]

So the information I've gleened from @jthayer09 post about PD is I need a 5amp max for the full charge speed.

 

Based off your information @Hollybrookyou think the 5amp fuse would be acceptable for the wiring correct?

 

@someguy can you double check me? Does all this sound correct to you as well?

 

If yall confirm this is reasonable I will swap out my fuse for the 5amp to test and report back. 

[Ride365]

Sounds reasonable......do it and report back your findings/experience.