Premium Member wessie Posted October 12, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted October 12, 2015 Further study of the wiring diagram - I'm viewing on a small screen, so it's a bit of a challenge - shows the grips are connected in series. There is a yellow/red feed from the ECU to the left grip (black plug), controlling the temperature, a yellow common wire and the right grip (grey plug) also has the black return wire. So, I'm now sitting in the same tree as Tosh. Swapping the plugs should not affect the voltage across each coil. You won't reverse the polarity, just change which heater is connected to the ECU and which is connected to the negative side. The total voltage from yellow/red to black won't change, nor will the voltage drop across each heater coil. The current will just flow in the opposite direction. This signature is left blank as the poster writes enough pretentious bollocks as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member jimf Posted October 12, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted October 12, 2015 Further study of the wiring diagram - I'm viewing on a small screen, so it's a bit of a challenge - shows the grips are connected in series. There is a yellow/red feed from the ECU to the left grip (black plug), controlling the temperature, a yellow common wire and the right grip (grey plug) also has the black return wire. I took a look on the big screen of my PC where it's really easy to see. I should have done that before I took the bike apart this evening :-/ but I'm glad you mentioned this since it means it's not possible to add a trim resistor to the left -- it will affect both. So, no sense in even trying that. Suck. I guess I should have expected that, it's the cheapest way to do the wiring, but still. I guess I'm back to trying to glue an insulator between the grip and the bar. 2015 FJ-09 (Mary Kate) 2007 Daytona 675 (Tabitha, ret.) 1998 Vulcan 800 (Ret.) 2001 SV650S (Veronica, Ret.) 2000 Intruder 800 (Ret.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member jimf Posted October 13, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted October 13, 2015 it means it's not possible to add a trim resistor to the left -- it will affect both.Waitaminute, I'm being stupid. It's been forever since I did electronics but since they're wired in series that means there will be a voltage drop across each grip. Looking at the diagram, the throttle grip is first in the circuit using the connectors in the stock position. So, it should see higher voltage than the left, and therefore generate more heat. Reversing them should make a substantial difference. Right? I guess I'll know for sure over the next week or two as I do a lot more cold weather riding. :-) 2015 FJ-09 (Mary Kate) 2007 Daytona 675 (Tabitha, ret.) 1998 Vulcan 800 (Ret.) 2001 SV650S (Veronica, Ret.) 2000 Intruder 800 (Ret.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Reversing them should make a substantial difference. Right? I don't think it'll make any difference, but let us know when you've tried it out. Adding resistance in series, as already said won't help. Reducing the resistance in the left hand grip by putting a shunt resistor in parallel would, in theory, produce more heat - although some will be in the resistor - but the whole circuit will have an overall lower resistance so both grips will run hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 it means it's not possible to add a trim resistor to the left -- it will affect both.Waitaminute, I'm being stupid. It's been forever since I did electronics but since they're wired in series that means there will be a voltage drop across each grip. Looking at the diagram, the throttle grip is first in the circuit using the connectors in the stock position. So, it should see higher voltage than the left, and therefore generate more heat. Reversing them should make a substantial difference. Right? I guess I'll know for sure over the next week or two as I do a lot more cold weather riding. :-) I distinctly remember in school a set of light bulbs wired in what I thought was series that each bulb got just a little dimmer all the way down the line. It's been more years than I'd like to admit since I saw that in school and I'm having trouble getting google to give me the information I'm looking for on this subject. The theory is if the load is the same, the voltage drop will be the same regardless of what order they come in on the circuit. So, I know the theory, and I know what I saw. But I can't remember for sure that what I saw was wired in series or the reasons they gave for differing brightness. Can someone smarter than me explain this with references please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Waitaminute, I'm being stupid. It's been forever since I did electronics but since they're wired in series that means there will be a voltage drop across each grip. Looking at the diagram, the throttle grip is first in the circuit using the connectors in the stock position. So, it should see higher voltage than the left, and therefore generate more heat. Reversing them should make a substantial difference. Right? I guess I'll know for sure over the next week or two as I do a lot more cold weather riding. :-) I distinctly remember in school a set of light bulbs wired in what I thought was series that each bulb got just a little dimmer all the way down the line. It's been more years than I'd like to admit since I saw that in school and I'm having trouble getting google to give me the information I'm looking for on this subject. The theory is if the load is the same, the voltage drop will be the same regardless of what order they come in on the circuit. So, I know the theory, and I know what I saw. But I can't remember for sure that what I saw was wired in series or the reasons they gave for differing brightness. Can someone smarter than me explain this with references please?Your looking for Ohms Law (V=IR). For resistors in series you sum the individual resistance values. For resistors in parallel, you sum the inverse of the individual resistance values. The direction of current flow does not affect the voltage drop across each resistor. STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I distinctly remember in school a set of light bulbs wired in what I thought was series that each bulb got just a little dimmer all the way down the line. It's been more years than I'd like to admit since I saw that in school and I'm having trouble getting google to give me the information I'm looking for on this subject. The theory is if the load is the same, the voltage drop will be the same regardless of what order they come in on the circuit. So, I know the theory, and I know what I saw. But I can't remember for sure that what I saw was wired in series or the reasons they gave for differing brightness. Can someone smarter than me explain this with references please?Your looking for Ohms Law (V=IR). For resistors in series you sum the individual resistance values. For resistors in parallel, you sum the inverse of the individual resistance values. The direction of current flow does not affect the voltage drop across each resistor. The power in Watts dissipated by each resistor is equal to the product of the voltage drop across the resistor and current flowing through it or IV, which can be recast as V^2/R or I^2R. STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Actually it is the inverse of the sum of the inverse of the individual values.Agree! Thought that was implied. 1/R =1/R1+ 1/R2, etc... STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjay09 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 On my factory heated grips the throttle side read 1.6 ohms and the clutch side read 2.5 ohms. Tested power at the plug and got 3.38 volts on med and high setting from the clutch side and 3.56 volts on med and high setting from the throttle side. My meter wouldn't read any voltage at all from either side on low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaintstoppin Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Let me try to help you clear up some of this confusion. With the two grip heaters wired in series the current flows through the first grip, then through the second grip. So we all are on the same page with that, right? What is happening with the reversing of the connectors is another thing. See, the electrons entering the first heater are fresh and make lots of heat. But then, going into the second heater, they are tired from all the work they just did, and so the second heater and can't make as much heat. The best way to handle this is to have the current go through the left grip first. Now, should we discuss the other issue? Does the current flow from positive to negative? Or negative to positive? ;-))))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Let me try to help you clear up some of this confusion. With the two grip heaters wired in series the current flows through the first grip, then through the second grip. So we all are on the same page with that, right? What is happening with the reversing of the connectors is another thing. See, the electrons entering the first heater are fresh and make lots of heat. But then, going into the second heater, they are tired from all the work they just did, and so the second heater and can't make as much heat. The best way to handle this is to have the current go through the left grip first. Now, should we discuss the other issue? Does the current flow from positive to negative? Or negative to positive? ;-))))) Electrons flow one way and current flows the opposite way. So, when you say the current flows through the first grip, the electrons are actually in the second grip and don't really get tired until they reach the first grip. Clear? STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member wessie Posted October 13, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted October 13, 2015 Let me try to help you clear up some of this confusion. With the two grip heaters wired in series the current flows through the first grip, then through the second grip. So we all are on the same page with that, right? What is happening with the reversing of the connectors is another thing. See, the electrons entering the first heater are fresh and make lots of heat. But then, going into the second heater, they are tired from all the work they just did, and so the second heater and can't make as much heat. The best way to handle this is to have the current go through the left grip first. Now, should we discuss the other issue? Does the current flow from positive to negative? Or negative to positive? ;-))))) We import a lot of electrons from the French nuclear power stations during off peak to save burning gas. Awkward phuckers they are. 2 hour lunch breaks. Bridging weekend when a bank holiday falls on a Thursday etc etc. Anyway, with your current direction query. Are you restricting the answer to the northern hemisphere as with many things, it's all reversed on the other side of the equator. This signature is left blank as the poster writes enough pretentious bollocks as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjay09 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Hi, without seeing exactly where you were measuring it is difficult to comment on the voltages you recorded. Also, did you disconnect the grips from the circuit to measure their individual dc resistance? Another thing with two wire dc resistance with hand held digital multimeters is that unless there is a null function available on the meter to negate the resistance of the actual measuring leads this introduces errors and can easily be 1-2 ohms depending on the quality of the meter. So could you confirm how you did your tests? it might also be useful to measure the open circuit voltage output by the control circuit on the different settings without any grips connected. I measured the resistance before I installed the grips on the bike. The voltage was measured at the factory plugs behind the right side fairing with both of the grips plugged in. I used a craftsman auto range meter for all this so these readings are accurate. You can't measure the voltage without the grips connected because the computer won't send power without them being plugged in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Ok. Ok. I know the difference between series and parallel. I know how to calculate the total ohms for both scenarios. For sake of clarity, let's leave parallel circuits out of the conversation please as we are talking about the grips and we have established it is a series circuit. With that out of the way, I would like to establish whether or not I'm crazy for remembering very vividly a set of light bulbs hooked up to a battery set up in my 8th grade science classroom. The first one was brightest and each one dimmed as it went down the line. If that's truly what happened in a series circuit, switching them would yield results. From everything I've read recently though, they would all be the same brightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b12ty Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Ok. Ok. I know the difference between series and parallel. I know how to calculate the total ohms for both scenarios. For sake of clarity, let's leave parallel circuits out of the conversation please as we are talking about the grips and we have established it is a series circuit. With that out of the way, I would like to establish whether or not I'm crazy for remembering very vividly a set of light bulbs hooked up to a battery set up in my 8th grade science classroom. The first one was brightest and each one dimmed as it went down the line. If that's truly what happened in a series circuit, switching them would yield results. From everything I've read recently though, they would all be the same brightness. Think of a string of mini Christmas lights. All in series, all the same bright end to end. Ty '05 Bandit 1200s ( Blue and White ) Bandit pic 2015 FJ-09 ( RED ) FJ-09 pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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