Fork height question..

[mak595]

Just been having a play about, undid axle pinch bolt, bounced on top yoke to settle forks and nipped it up.
 
So free sag is 153mm
 
On my own so not ideal but using a zip tie on the forks and me Sat on bike, I'm looking at full preload to get to 110mm measured off the sip tie
 
So that makes 43mm rider Sag so its in the ball park, the ktech are the same length as the standard springs, wonder if I should have gone for 9.5 springs....

[pattonme]

@mak595 either you are mixing up terms or something is wrong with your notes. Yesterday it was 150mm for full extension, now you say it's 153mm free sag. I'm going to assume you meant it's 153mm at full extension (wheel in the air)? What is the actual value of free sag (ie, bike on both wheels, level ground, no rider)? Both the front and rear if you don't mind.
 
Can you also visually confirm the spring markings (or at least the label that was taped to your package)? If I remember somewhere you mentioned you were ~220lb? 0.9kg/mm or 9.0N/mm should be on the money which means you shouldn't have to put more than a couple turns of preload into it.
 
Humor me, measure your free (no rider) and rider sag with the preload all the way out and all the way in. Is there a difference?
 
 

[mak595]

 
 
 
Right started again so..
 measured total free sag, wheels off the ground, next bike on a front wheel chock
 
Front static sag no rider  NO preload 36mm. FULL preload  23mm
Front rider sag with me. NO preload 51mm  FULL preload 39mm
 
Rear static sag no rider 4mm that's with the standard shock, preload collar set to second softest
Rear rider sag 32mm
 
 I'm 204lb without gear, all measurements taken at that weight
 
 

 
 
 
 

 
EDIT
Just spoke to ktech workshop and they suggested just set static sag to 25mm to 30mm depending on fuel load, they don't really go off rider sag due to the variables on how your sitting while riding the bike, leaning forward etc

[xlxr]

"Just spoke to ktech workshop and they suggested just set static sag to 25mm to 30mm depending on fuel load, they don't really go off rider sag due to the variables on how your sitting while riding the bike, leaning forward etc"
 
You seem to be misinterpreting what they said. Static rider sag is just that, rider weight, average fuel and loaded gear, suspension not moving. It is just a starting point, but a very important starting point because it is the only point of sag you can measure in the garage. There are electronic systems you can add to the bike to measure how rider sag changes under riding conditions, but nobody uses them except suspension engineers. Once you start riding the bike, rider sag changes all the time. Hydraulic dampening, rider position, amount of fuel or extra weight, acceleration, de-acceleration, going around a corner etc, etc all change from static rider sag. So, you start with static rider sag, and an average chassis pitch which are set up in the garage, then test ride and fine tune as needed to meet rider preferences and dynamic riding conditions.

[pattonme]

So, there is considerable confusion/misuse of term 'static sag'. Some people use it to describe with rider on the bike, others use it to describe without the rider. I personally prefer to use the terms "free sag" and "rider sag" since it's less confusing.
 
What K-tech was saying is to have 25-30mm without a rider. That's a reasonable number. With rider the front should add 10-15mm.
 
> Front static sag no rider NO preload 36mm. FULL preload 23mm
> Front rider sag with me. NO preload 51mm FULL preload 39mm
 
It seems you need stiffer springs. Or the ones you were handed are mis-labeled. Or something is amiss in how your internals were put back together. You should not need preload wound to the stops like that. I would come off at least 1 line, and probably 2 which should result in something like 27/45. You *are* measuring to the same reference point, right? ie. the top edge of the zip-tie or the bottom, and in relation to the stanchion/axle block? the zip-tie is *just* tight enough to have friction but isn't tight? Also if you're using that stand then your bike isn't actually level. put a piece of wood under the rear tire to match. Though it probably doesn't alter things by more than 3mm.
 
> Rear static sag no rider 4mm that's with the standard shock, preload collar set to second softest
> Rear rider sag 32mm
 
you have too much preload into a spring that is too weak, even though the rider sag value by itself doesn't look 'bad'. But that's to be expected from the OE unit.
 

[mak595]

Went with ktech recommendations and set free sag to 27mm (tank half full) with this set up there is 5 rings of preload showing, which makes more sense. The springs are stamped .9 so would assume there right. Been out today and put about 120 miles, lots of very bumpy roads (it's the UK!!!) Tweeked the rebound and I'm fairly happy with the front. Got a 0 miles 09 zx10r shock coming in a day or so, so I'll have another play once that's on, gonna install the fj spring onto it, I know it's a compromise regarding spring rate but I'll see how I get on.
 
Thanks for all the input, much appreciated

[pattonme]

that's more like it.

[xlxr]

I prefer the term bike sag to indicate bike only weight. Rider sag with rider on the bike. I was using "static sag" meaning suspension is not moving, dampening has no effect. Dynamic sag meaning sag when riding the bike, which is the final result of weight and motion of the suspension.

[mak595]

I prefer the term bike sag to indicate bike only weight. Rider sag with rider on the bike. I was using "static sag" meaning suspension is not moving, dampening has no effect. Dynamic sag meaning sag when riding the bike, which is the final result of weight and motion of the suspension.

 
 
In the UK we tend to use:
 
static sag = no rider
rider sag = rider sat on bike
 
Guess it's different interpretations from country to country...

[duhs10]

I prefer the term bike sag to indicate bike only weight. Rider sag with rider on the bike. I was using "static sag" meaning suspension is not moving, dampening has no effect. Dynamic sag meaning sag when riding the bike, which is the final result of weight and motion of the suspension.

In the UK we tend to use:
 
static sag = no rider
rider sag = rider sat on bike
 
Guess it's different interpretations from country to country...

I don't think its country to country... I think its person to person hahaha!

[texscottyd]

I don't think its country to country... I think its person to person hahaha!

Absolutely true!   We can't even seem to agree on terms like 'raise' and 'lower' in the context of suspension setup...   

[mak595]

Very true

[dbeau]

So what's the ideal rider-off sag/rider-on sag.
 
And do we measure rider-on sag versus the unloaded suspension (no sag) or the rider-off sag?
 
I'd say I'm at 180lbs with luggage. I'm hoping I can make this stock suspension work.

[pattonme]

So what's the ideal rider-off sag/rider-on sag. 
And do we measure rider-on sag versus the unloaded suspension (no sag) or the rider-off sag?
 
I'd say I'm at 180lbs with luggage. I'm hoping I can make this stock suspension work.

You measure both.  
The following are single-rider scenario and are reasonable rule-of-thumb guidelines. You may prefer coloring outside the lines a little, but if you're way off, should probably re-evaluate your setup.
 
Forks should aim for about 25-30mm free sag, add 10-15 with rider on-board, not to exceed 45.
Shock should be right around 15-20 free sag, like the fork add 15-20 with rider, not to exceed 40.

[norcal616]

So what's the ideal rider-off sag/rider-on sag. 
And do we measure rider-on sag versus the unloaded suspension (no sag) or the rider-off sag?
 
I'd say I'm at 180lbs with luggage. I'm hoping I can make this stock suspension work.

I'm 185 suited up 
Front- set preload at 3 lines showing and 8 clicks out
Rear- 5th notch and turn clicker(the rear clicker don't click, just what I call it) out 1.25-1.5 turns out
Both tires are set at 29psi (cold like after sitting overnight) will settle around 32/32psi after warming up to temp, anymore psi above 34psi(cold) the tires feel squirmy/hard and don't work with the suspension settings for me...
 
I want to ride another FJ-09 with aftermarket suspension just to make sure I don't need to spend decent coinage for a suspension upgrade...