Clutch Replacement?

[steveb]

I brought my 2015 FJ-09 in for a major service (change all fluids, valve check, throttle body adjust etc. etc.) recently.  The bike has been running fine and has about 32,500 miles on it.  Almost all back-road pleasure riding and touring trips.  I had noticed, and mentioned, that I was hearing more noise in the clutch area (even with the clutch lever pulled in) but everything has been functioning perfectly.  I called in today to get an update on the work, and was told that the tech working on my bike was recommending (what sounded like) a full clutch assembly replacement.
 
I don't have full information yet.  I've only heard the news from a service guy reading from the report of the tech working on my bike (I'm going to the shop tomorrow to get better information), but this is what I'm hearing so far -  Apparently, the clutch springs had loosened (weakened?) which allowed the clutch housing/basket to move around and wear not only itself but also other parts (gaskets, friction plates etc. etc.).  He stated that, in the opinion of the tech, the clutch would fail at some point in the future (no real time frame), and it should be replaced (not cheap).  The tech said they had seen this before on "some" FZ-09s and FJ-09s.  My immediate reply was that this sounded like a defect.  Naturally, with a 3 year old bike and 32K+ miles, it might be difficult to convince Yamaha to cover some of this (though this is the first bike I've ever had that needed a clutch replacement - including a number of bikes with much higher mileage).  I did a search within the Forum and haven't found any similar complaints (other than one current thread about a noisy clutch that "could" be related, but may not be at all).  Sooooo  I'm looking for thoughts/feedback on the situation.  I will also mention that I've had work done at this shop before (mostly routine maintenance on this and past bikes), and have always felt they've been a good shop.
 
Again, I need to talk with the tech whose actually working on my bike and get more info.  Hopefully it's not as serious as I'm initially hearing but...
 
If I do need to get a clutch replacement, then where to go from there...  Upgrade to the newer slipper clutch?  3rd party clutch options?  I really enjoy the FJ soooo...
 
Thanks for any input! 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[koth442]

You're not the only one reporting some strange clutch noise. However I cannot remember what the solution was. It was from a facebook group so there's no good way to go find the thread. Replacing the clutch springs is cheap so start there. I'm skeptical how much "damage" is actually done though. I would hold off on replacing the basket / plates until further notice.
 
If you were to replace the whole assembly, I see no reason not to do the new slipper clutch.

[skipperT]

If you speak with the tech, ask them to show you the wear they are talking about.
 
Some “grooving” in the pressure plate/primary drive gear where the springs sit, and also where the “tabs” of the clutch plates sit - is normal, esp for a bike with miles.
 
Some noise is typical from the 15-16 models before Yamaha went to the slipper clutch and fitted the clutch cover with sound dampening material on the inside.
 
You can measure the free length of the clutch springs easily to see if they are worn.
Yamaha’s oe clutch kits include springs, plates, and gasket.
 
-Skip

[2and3cylinders]

I fitted I slipper assist clutch kit from part shark which presumably is from the xsr. I did not install the new clutch cover with the sound damping material.
 
This is the first slip assist clutch I've ever had and I love it. It's fantastic when going at it hard. Whereas I automatically try to match engine and wheel speed, not having to be overly concerned about it really lets you concentrate on the other aspects of riding fast on a technical Road.
 
However the clutch is still the noisiest I've ever had on a motorcycle, I think it's just the way it is. At first I thought it was the cam chain tensioner but when you pull in the clutch in gear it quiets down.
 
My 2015 FJ had about 25,000 miles on it when I went to the slipper clutch and some notching of the basket was apparent but could have been smoothed out with a Arkansas Stone. Using the clutch holding tool did mark it up more but as the kit comes with a new basket I didn't bother cleaning it up as it is not reused.
 
I'm still going to install the ape manual CCT

[steveb]

Thanks all for your input!  I'll be talking with the tech later today (he was off yesterday) and, if the clutch really does need replacement (or close enough), I'll be aiming at getting the slipper clutch installed.  Wondering if the 2017 version is an easy "drop-in" (with most likely the newer sound dampening cover). 
 
I'll let you all know what I find out.
 
 

[steveb]

Thanks all for your input!  I'll be talking with the tech later today (he was off yesterday) and, if the clutch really does need replacement (or close enough), I'll be aiming at getting the slipper clutch installed.  Wondering if the 2017 version is an easy "drop-in" (with most likely the newer sound dampening cover).   
I'll let you all know what I find out.
 

Update: So I was able to talk with the tech who actually worked on the bike (who turned out to be the service manager). In any event, it turns out to be a case of much ado about not much.  Given that I had complained about the increase in noise, his recommendation was based upon what was needed to reduce the noise back to "normal" levels.  In this case that would be basically a clutch rebuild.  He made it clear that he was not trying to say that it needed to be done to avoid a looming clutch failure.  
What he basically told me was that it was not unusual for several/many of the Yamaha models (FZ-09, FJ-09, and R1 among them) to exhibit increased clutch assembly noise at some point above 20,000 miles (mine started showing up around 30k miles) "It's a Yamaha thing".  He stated that Yamaha is aware of this and sees it as a result of normal wear.  He related past unsuccessful attempts at trying to get Yamaha to warranty the work needed to reduce the noise factor.  Apparently there is rotational back and forth "jitter" that takes place during normal operation.  As the clutch (springs etc) wears this jitter increases with a resulting increase in noise.  I was very direct in asking about functional issues - "Do I need to worry about the clutch failing down the road?"  and he said that this was not a concern just because of the noise.  Apparently the noise increase is common enough that he didn't feel the need to get into the clutch itself on my bike, to see what was happening.  He didn't want to add to the bill for the extra labor on something he had seen so many times before.  Because everything wears together within the clutch, it's usual to replace much of the assembly at the same time.  He did mention that there are other clutch part kits available that would work if desired (EBC was mentioned) for less money than Yamaha OEM.  He wasn't enthused about a slipper clutch replacement, as he looked upon them as basically useful only in track situations (his personal opinion).  He didn't think the 2017 FJ-09 clutch assembly would be a drop-in replacement, but had not researched it so...
 
Bottom line -  I'm picking up the bike today without having any clutch work done.  As long as the clutch seems to be working smoothly I can deal with the extra noise.  I might revisit this sometime in the future but, for now, it's a non-issue.  I'd rather be riding, and I have a few hundred mile day ride planned for tomorrow morning.  :^)
 
Thanks for the input and if something changes I'll let you know.
 
 

[betoney]

Glad to hear that it was a non issue and everything is working fine.
 
The 2017 clutch is assist and slipper, the decreased lever pull and smoother overall transmission functionality is a definite improvement. It has rubber dampers in the pressure plate that absorb the jolt if you are riding aggressively and drop down a gear quickly.

[Jiri]

Germany moto journal Mottorrad made 50 000 km test of MT09 (=FZ09) and they had to replace coupling (plates and basket) in the end of the test due to noise and bad  shifting. After replacement all was ok again (noise and shifting). You can read it in following web - unfortunately in german language only:   https://www.motorradonline.de/yamaha-mt-09-im-50000-km-dauertest.730826.html  Official statement of Yamaha was, that there was high loading of the coupling during the test, because the steel plates has blue colouring, but the basket and damper was not worn. 

[skipperT]

On 5/4/2018 at 2:36 PM, steveb said:

Update: So I was able to talk with the tech who actually worked on the bike (who turned out to be the service manager). In any event, it turns out to be a case of much ado about not much.  Given that I had complained about the increase in noise, his recommendation was based upon what was needed to reduce the noise back to "normal" levels.  In this case that would be basically a clutch rebuild.  He made it clear that he was not trying to say that it needed to be done to avoid a looming clutch failure.  
What he basically told me was that it was not unusual for several/many of the Yamaha models (FZ-09, FJ-09, and R1 among them) to exhibit increased clutch assembly noise at some point above 20,000 miles (mine started showing up around 30k miles) "It's a Yamaha thing".  He stated that Yamaha is aware of this and sees it as a result of normal wear.  He related past unsuccessful attempts at trying to get Yamaha to warranty the work needed to reduce the noise factor.  Apparently there is rotational back and forth "jitter" that takes place during normal operation.  As the clutch (springs etc) wears this jitter increases with a resulting increase in noise.  I was very direct in asking about functional issues - "Do I need to worry about the clutch failing down the road?"  and he said that this was not a concern just because of the noise.  Apparently the noise increase is common enough that he didn't feel the need to get into the clutch itself on my bike, to see what was happening.  He didn't want to add to the bill for the extra labor on something he had seen so many times before.  Because everything wears together within the clutch, it's usual to replace much of the assembly at the same time.  He did mention that there are other clutch part kits available that would work if desired (EBC was mentioned) for less money than Yamaha OEM.  He wasn't enthused about a slipper clutch replacement, as he looked upon them as basically useful only in track situations (his personal opinion).  He didn't think the 2017 FJ-09 clutch assembly would be a drop-in replacement, but had not researched it so...
 
Bottom line -  I'm picking up the bike today without having any clutch work done.  As long as the clutch seems to be working smoothly I can deal with the extra noise.  I might revisit this sometime in the future but, for now, it's a non-issue.  I'd rather be riding, and I have a few hundred mile day ride planned for tomorrow morning.  :^)
 
Thanks for the input and if something changes I'll let you know.
 
 

Sound like an honest tech.

The other thing makes the noise in the clutch area of our engines is lack of primary gear shock absorption.  Other models have springs in the back of the primary gear that help compensate for this "back and forth jitter".

I would love to find that type of primary gear to drop into our engines and see if it made a difference, but haven't had any luck yet.

-Skip