spring options

[stringman]

Sorry guys another suspension question. I have decided to bite the bullet and get the suspension sorted. My plan is to get the front springss changed and the bike fully set up first.

The two options seem to be dictated by Who does the work. (based in the south east UK)

 

I have HM Racing charging a once only suspension set up of £108 ( any time they do further work on the bike they dont charge for set up) and then adding in hagon progressive springs and new oil adds a further £220.

 

I also have steve jordan setting the bike up and adding Ktech springs for £40 less. They also offered rear springs for £155 but did say it would still be underdamped so it wasnt really worth it?

 

HM suggested to do just the set up and then after a while see if i want the springs (no upselling) and also did not really want to fit a rear spring as it would be a waste really and advised me to save for a nitron sport.

 

So 2 questions

Anyone had either experiences of either of these firms?

Anyone had linear or progressive springs ?

for general fastish road riding which is the best spring do you think?

 

cheers

[BBB]

Sorry, not had experience of either firm, but I’ll offer an opinion or two on your questions. I don’t know which version of the Tracer you’re riding, but I’m presuming it’s an earlier model as the later ones have an adjustable set-up.

Rear

I would agree that simply swapping the spring is false economy as the standard shock doesn’t have good rebound damping. Fitting a Nitron shock would give you adjustable compression, rebound damping, height adjustment and finer preload. I have the NTR R1 non-remote version. Swapping the shock is a straight forward job if you are mechanically minded.

Forks

Most people go for linear springs that are specific for your weight and change the internal cartridges if they are going for the full suspension overhaul. The early Tracer only has rebound damping in the right leg, just a spring and oil in the left leg, so upgrading to have damping in both legs is advisable. The work involved is way beyond my comfort and tool level so it made sense for me to let an expert do this. FWIW, Maxton suspension in the North West were great with me and if you’re going to mail the forks to someone for the work, then I would recommend them. If you want a ride-in, ride-out service then a local firm makes more sense. 

[betoney]

53 minutes ago, BBB said:

Rear

I would agree that simply swapping the spring is false economy as the standard shock doesn’t have good rebound damping. Fitting a Nitron shock would give you adjustable compression, rebound damping, height adjustment and finer preload.

Forks

Most people go for linear springs that are specific for your weight and change the internal cartridges if they are going for the full suspension overhaul. The early Tracer only has rebound damping in the right leg, just a spring and oil in the left leg, so upgrading to have damping in both legs is advisable. . 

I would agree with this assessment 100%.

If all you are doing is basic commuting, you could probably get away with just getting the correct rate springs installed.  Once you pick up the pace a bit, the suspension shortcomings start to make themselves evident, especially in the rear. 

@stringman - You should be able to do spirited sport riding, fast sweepers, mountain twisties or canyon carving and feel totally in control, springs alone are not going to achieve that, the internal damping needs to be adjusted/modified.  

[stringman]

Thanks for the replies

Sorry its a 2017 model.

I don't think i am a great rider, having said that the last ride out i did was years ago on a sprint rs with a hornet and an r1 and i left them for dust! I don't do knee down or even pegs down. I just want the confidence to push it, at the moment it feels jittery and wallowy. feels way worse than my 2015 tracer ( exact same settings)

i just feel i should start with the springs and oil then if needs be by a rear shock

Its just linear or progressive?

[kemmotar]

Oem factory yamaha are dual rate springs. Linear and progressive... my advice is to choose a linear spring like k-tech or ohlins  etc and not hyper pro for example that makes only progressive springs. Most important to meet your weight standards for proper sag suspension tuning

[stringman]

thanks for  that,

Everyone seems to recommend linear springs except the suspension shop?

I don't think they have a vested interest in selling progressive, he just said that for road riding its the best of both worlds (jack of all trades master of none…)

I will email them again but i don't want the linear springs to be fantastic on the 5% of the smooth roads i ride on but unforgiving on the 95% of crap roads i ride on

 

[betoney]

4 minutes ago, stringman said:

thanks for  that,

Everyone seems to recommend linear springs except the suspension shop?

I don't think they have a vested interest in selling progressive, he just said that for road riding its the best of both worlds (jack of all trades master of none…)

I will email them again but i don't want the linear springs to be fantastic on the 5% of the smooth roads i ride on but unforgiving on the 95% of crap roads i ride on

 

I have used both progressive and linear springs in the past, the progressives were definitely a step up from stock but when talking to suspension shops, they said they couldnt effectively re-valve to change the damping since the spring rate changes. Progressives are softer at the start of the stroke and stiffen more the further they compress.  Its like trying to solve a math equation where one of the variables is changing.  Do they set it up for the soft part of the initial stroke? or for the stiffest part as they bottom out?  Linear springs maintain the same spring rate as they compress.

If you ride on rough roads, I would highly recommend getting the internal damping set up accordingly, harsh damping is harsh damping, regardless of the springs you use.

[norcal616]

Aftermarket rear shock like Ktech razor R or Nitron and a fork kit that allows compression/rebound/ preload settings... 

Rear shock should be replaced first, you might only need to go that route and leave the front alone...

OEM rear shock is a wet noodle and set up for a rider under 140# riding on a glass smooth track .. 

As for how nice the suspension works- depends on the shop- some run em softer for plush road riding, some run em firm for race track... 

[kemmotar]

basically the problems regarding the suspension of tracer are 2 or maybe 3 (not mentioning the short wheelbase or suspension travel)

first the front springs are reallllllyyyyyy soft 7.8 , when the average should be around 8.5 or 9. they did it so the front wont lift as much. you cant sag it properly so a spring is required....

the other problem is the lack of compression damping in the left leg for the 2015-2017 models.  so you run with one leg active if I may say.

last but not least the hydraulics of the  internal components (regarding damping) of tracer's suspension, both front or rear are inadequate if not a complete joke.

its a good bike in an affordable price, so yamaha should cut the budget for a competitive price in the market.

its not secret that everyone that has changed suspension, front and rear speak about a total different bike... its the sincere truth. yes you have to invest some money but if someone is thinking of keeping it for some time its the best investment that can make.