Suspension Questions - please chime in

[Lone Wolf]

Gotcha - thanks for the input.
I'm gonna keep researching what you folks have learned about the suspension upgrades, and pull the trigger after I put a bit more miles on my current bike.

[Lone Wolf]

Quality suspension is a beautiful thing...  If I were to do it again, I'm not sure I wouldn't choose the FZ and quality aftermarket suspension.  That it's also 50 pounds lighter is a very good thing.  I haven't had a lot of time to ride the FJ yet, the weather is just starting to get decent around here.  After I get a bunch more miles on it, I'm anticipating that I will like it more and more.  Either choice, the engine is quite entertaining.

Yeah, either way is gonna be good. I was riding a Yamaha 850 Triple in the '80s with shaft drive, and always regretted selling that bike. I know what you are riding is light years ahead in terms of fuel injection, power, etc.  and as much as people like to bash the FZ suspension, I am sure it is much better than my old 850 or the bike I am riding now (which is a 22 year old Honda 750).  I really miss the balls that the large triples have. My VFR came close, but there is something about a triple that is very unique.

[redfjniner]

Let's say I have the MSRP of 10,490 available (USA dollars) and want to choose between FJ-09 or FZ-09 (with over $2,000 to play with on suspension upgrades to the FZ-09). Same motor and frame, but obviously the FZ-09 would sacrifice ABS and have smaller tank, and some ergo differences.
I am a lone-wolf, never carry a passenger. My soft bags are adequate on current bike. I do day trips, nothing out of state.
I know many of you own FZ rather than FJ because it came out first - and likely have opinions on this.
I have sat on both of them at the dealer, the FZ fits me a bit better (I weigh 155 lbs, 5'8").
If the FJ was set with lower seat the ergos would likely be a non-issue.
I agree the FJ suspension is likely adequate, and improved over the stock FZ-09. But I do hit the twisties pretty hard.
If I was going to a cartridge upgrade up front, replace the rear shock - and was OK without ABS and the smaller gas tank - why wouldn't I get the FZ?
I would put an aftermarket windscreen on either bike, so the FJ coming with a windscreen is not a plus for me.
I have had a MC license since 1972 and have had lots of different bikes.
Currently I am riding an ancient Honda 750 that I purchased as a "time capsule" with super low miles a few years ago. Forks have no cartridges, super basic suspension. I have the classic "too soft - brake dive" yet "knock your teeth out on big bumps" that is associated with the old damper-rod design suspension.
So I would really like to take this opportunity with my next bike to have suspension that can "take the hit" on big bumps, absorb them, without being a mushbox on less demanding surfaces.

I still have my FZ09 and in Dec. I picked up the FJ09.  I weight 161 and I'm 5-8.  Both bikes fit me perfectly.  I liked the riding position of the FZ and I like that of the FJ, maybe just a little bit  more because of the height and less knee bend.  I now have 7,500 miles on the FJ but only 5,400 on the FZ.  Just finished a 2,400 ride last week to Laughlin NV.  That I couldn't have done on the FZ with the seat Yamaha put on it.  I like the throttle of the FJ more, as it is slower to respond to the twist vs the FZ which responds very fast, a little harder to get used to.  I found the FJ easier to lean over, maybe the tires or maybe the throttle, or both, but I can corner faster.  Like 27 vs 25.  Not that big a deal, but I just feel more at ease with the FJ.  My FZ had the ECU flashed so it can literally go 38 mph faster.  I do find that I max out the FJ a lot.  I'm fine with that at may age and time spent in the saddle.  I have GP Suspension w/Penske rear on my FJR, and that made a big difference, but I don't feel the need on the FJ.  If I were to keep the FZ, I would change the suspension.  I think the FJ is a better buy, because of the suspension, abs, tc, center stand, heated grips, saddle bag mounts, bigger gas tank and that is even with the 115 mph (112 actual) limiter.

[Lone Wolf]

That is really good info for me - especially because we are the same height. Appreciate it!

[wessie]

I had a play with the suspension settings yesterday as it was too wet to ride. I firmed everything up just to see if I liked this for meandering around country lanes.
 
Whilst the firmer settings had a couple of benefits in that the bike was more stable on fast sweepers and rolled into corners more positively, I didn't like this set-up at all. Far too harsh over uneven surfaces - our minor roads are covered in bitumen and then have granite chips rolled into the goo. This wears and you get a very uneven surface. Then if you hit a larger bump it is just not nice at all.
 
So, the bike is back on factory settings at the front, factory setting on rear pre-load and half a turn harder on rear damping from standard. I put the rear damper at that setting a few weeks ago when someone suggested it. I think it made a difference but can't remember what.

[robb]

At 165# I found the stock preload in the front was a bit soft and in the rear was a bit hard, tightened one ring on the front forks and 1 notch on the back suits my weight better for overall conditions.  Still playing with the dampening.

[mjsracing]

My frame of references is dirt bike suspensiion. I still have a long way to go to get up to speed on street bike suspension set up. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can get me started in the right direction.
 
From my admittedly limited knowledge, seems like most folks seem to target about 30% for rider sag, then set the rebound clicker proportionately based on the stock settings.
 
To make sure I'm on the same page, rider sag is the difference in suspension position between the unloaded (in the air) suspension and the loaded with rider in normal riding positoin and gear, measured in mm. It takes 2 or 3 folks to easily measure (The rider, the measurer, the balancer)
For example, put the bike on center stand and measure the distance from a point at the rear axel to a point on the subframe vertically. (A)
Now while in riding poistion, wearing full riding gear, have someone balance the bike at the front and someone else measue the distance between the same two points (B).
Rider Sag is the difference between A and B.
Front forks rider sag is measured the same way.
 
 
Front forks have 137mm travel so 30% rider sag shoudl be about 41mm. Turn the preload adjusters equally to achieve this sag.
Rear has 130mm travel so 30% rider sag shoudl be about 39mm. Turn the preload adjuster to acheive this sag.
 
Damping is set proportionately to the preload. IE if you are at 75% of the preload range to get the correct rider sag, you should try 75% of the damping range, as a starting point.
 
Does this sound like the correct process?
 
 
 

[Guest lawrenceofsuburbia]

My frame of references is dirt bike suspensiion. I still have a long way to go to get up to speed on street bike suspension set up. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can get me started in the right direction. 
From my admittedly limited knowledge, seems like most folks seem to target about 30% for rider sag, then set the rebound clicker proportionately based on the stock settings.
 
To make sure I'm on the same page, rider sag is the difference in suspension position between the unloaded (in the air) suspension and the loaded with rider in normal riding positoin and gear, measured in mm. It takes 2 or 3 folks to easily measure (The rider, the measurer, the balancer)
For example, put the bike on center stand and measure the distance from a point at the rear axel to a point on the subframe vertically. (A)
Now while in riding poistion, wearing full riding gear AND SEATED ON THE BIKE () , have someone balance the bike at the front and someone else measue the distance between the same two points (B).
Rider Sag is the difference between A and B.
Front forks rider sag is measured the same way.
 
 
Front forks have 137mm travel so 30% rider sag shoudl be about 41mm. Turn the preload adjusters equally to achieve this sag.
Rear has 130mm travel so 30% rider sag shoudl be about 39mm. Turn the preload adjuster to acheive this sag.
 
Damping is set proportionately to the preload. IE if you are at 75% of the preload range to get the correct rider sag, you should try 75% of the damping range, as a starting point.
 
Does this sound like the correct process?   SEE MY THINKING IN GREEN ABOVE.. but do correct me if I'm wrong!!L of S
 

 

[mjsracing]

Yes fully geared up, rider in normal riding position. It is important to get front back weight bias right. If you ride standing up, set sag standing up. That's the dirt bike way to ride. People look at me *really* funny when i ride my FJ standing up, LOL!

[wessie]

Yes fully geared up, rider in normal riding position. It is important to get front back weight bias right. If you ride standing up, set sag standing up. That's the dirt bike way to ride. People look at me *really* funny when i ride my FJ standing up, LOL!

you aren't the only weirdo! I ride standing up or with my legs dangling off the pegs: it's not an off-road riding legacy, just a middle aged thing due to knees bashed about on the rugby pitch. I need to have a good stretch now and then and don't see the need to stop and get off the bike to do so

[armyeod]

My stupid question.  
If I really find that the stock suspension is not good enough, then where would I take my bike for work?  Dealer?  
I have no trailer and I have to assume somebody local can do that type of work.
I only have 1K on the bike.  I am not a racer so you guys wanting to go 180 on this bike; that is not what I am riding for.  I am sport-touring.
I just ordered the new Corbin seat.  I did some minor tweaks on the stock suspension and it did improve the ride.
 
 

[oldfart]

My stupid question.   If I really find that the stock suspension is not good enough, then where would I take my bike for work?  Dealer?  
I have no trailer and I have to assume somebody local can do that type of work.
I only have 1K on the bike.  I am not a racer so you guys wanting to go 180 on this bike; that is not what I am riding for.  I am sport-touring.
I just ordered the new Corbin seat.  I did some minor tweaks on the stock suspension and it did improve the ride.
 

My thoughts.   Ask the sportbike guys who they take their bikes to.  I found a mechanic locally with his own hole-in-the-wall garage that way and he's terrific.  He's my go-to guy now as I've always thought the dealers mechanics were not the best around and charged way too much.  I think these guys can be found in almost every city but often don't advertise themselves in the traditional manner (yellow pages, etc.)  He set up my stock FJ-09 suspension for me and it's much better now, I'm going to leave it alone.  But if I was going to make major changes, I'd get his opinion on what to purchase and let him install it. But also, you might want to wait until your new seat arrives before changing the suspension.  I added extra padding to the stock seat, as I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum, and I can't believe how much difference it made in smoothing out the bumpy roads that I had assumed were all suspension issues.  I'm not a racer either, sport-touring is my thing.  But a good mechanic makes bike ownership an even better experience.   

[vex]

I come in with a lower echelon road racing pedigree of about 15 years and club level season championships in 125GP, 250GP, and Open Superbike. My streebikes have been all over the map, from clapped out XS1100s to a fully kitted Mille RSVR. I replaced my '08 DL650 with the FJ-09. I spent a few bucks on the DL suspension, using an Ohlins rear and the stock front. I tend to set my bikes up on the softer side. As soft as I can get them without inducing weave going over rough stuff in a corner.
 
As delivered, the FJ-09 was messed up. The front preload and rebound damping was all out of whack. The rear was at the middle of adjustment for preload and damping. I backed the preload off in the front just a bit softer than "middle" (and made sure it was equal on both sides, unlike how it was delivered), and set the rear damping at the middle. Everything is fairly compliant, though both ends could use an upgrade of damping and the addition of compression damping. It still doesn't like to ride sharp ridges while leaned over, but at least now I'm not bucking out of the saddle. When money permits, I'll be doing a Traxxion front/Ohlins rear upgrade. I'm 5'8" and 210lbs.
 

[ULEWZ]

I come in with a lower echelon road racing pedigree of about 15 years and club level season championships in 125GP, 250GP, and Open Superbike. My streebikes have been all over the map, from clapped out XS1100s to a fully kitted Mille RSVR. I replaced my '08 DL650 with the FJ-09. I spent a few bucks on the DL suspension, using an Ohlins rear and the stock front. I tend to set my bikes up on the softer side. As soft as I can get them without inducing weave going over rough stuff in a corner. 
As delivered, the FJ-09 was messed up. The front preload and rebound damping was all out of whack. The rear was at the middle of adjustment for preload and damping. I backed the preload off in the front just a bit softer than "middle" (and made sure it was equal on both sides, unlike how it was delivered), and set the rear damping at the middle. Everything is fairly compliant, though both ends could use an upgrade of damping and the addition of compression damping. It still doesn't like to ride sharp ridges while leaned over, but at least now I'm not bucking out of the saddle. When money permits, I'll be doing a Traxxion front/Ohlins rear upgrade. I'm 5'8" and 210lbs.

The Traxxion is real nice, but as of this writing I don't know of an Ohlins option, except a non-reservoir model with no external compression adjustment. Most of us go with the Traxxion Penske twin clicker (mine will be here on Tuesday!). I have the Andreani fork cartridges and am very happy, so that is an option also. linky 

[armyeod]

I think I will go with the Traxxion fork kit and Penske rear when I am ready to drop 2K.