Stock suspension settings for heavier riders

[zadnikar]

Could there be anything wrong if I MAX out the front preload in order to get almost perfect SAG? I mean can I damage springs or anything?
I read that front of Tracer is really light, so if I set correct SAG that means I have to max preload which means I will lift front of the bike and make it even lighter.
 
Yesterday I tried to set preload from 14mm (55mm sag) to 7mm (45mm sag) and riding was alot more comftable + better handling at higher speeds 80mph+.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong , I really dont wanna lose control of the bike

[hallard85]

I weight 85KG \\ 190 lbs and in order to get right SAG I had to max front preload (4mm) and to soften rear preload to 2nd position. Am I the only one with those numbers, seems everyone my weight is setting their suspension to ( 10mm -14mm front and 5-6 position on rear shock). did I miss something?  
Thanks for answers in advance!

I weigh the same (in riding gear) and ended up with these same settings!  An improvement over stock, for certain, but there is still too much sag and dive in front.  I think I'll swap out the progressive rate springs for linear rate and see if it helps front end handling...

[pattonme]

go with at least 0.9kg/mm or 8.8N/mm depending on which side of the pond you're located.

[xlxr]

Anyone who thinks stock suspension is good for 250 lb riders has very low expectations for suspension. I consider stock suspension unbearable for my 270 lbs. However, I have been riding nearly 40 years and used to race dirt bikes, and have had custom suspensions for all my bikes for the last few decades. If you ever ride a bike with truly good suspension, you will never again be happy with anything less.

[xlxr]

Could there be anything wrong if I MAX out the front preload in order to get almost perfect SAG? I mean can I damage springs or anything? I read that front of Tracer is really light, so if I set correct SAG that means I have to max preload which means I will lift front of the bike and make it even lighter.
 
Yesterday I tried to set preload from 14mm (55mm sag) to 7mm (45mm sag) and riding was alot more comftable + better handling at higher speeds 80mph+.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong , I really dont wanna lose control of the bike

There is no problem with setting max preload.  However, if the spring is too weak, max preload may give something close to correct rider sag, but the forks will still bottom out because spring rate is still too low.  Increasing preload does not increase spring rate. 
Chassis pitch is the next thing to look at.  Front end too high and/or rear to low, tends to make the front end too light and tend to cause wobbles at higher speeds.   To far in the opposite direction can also cause instability. 
 
Increasing oil height in the forks can help minimize bottoming out of the forks, but can only do so much if spring is too weak for rider weight. 
 
There is a lot of information about how to adjust suspension available on the internet these days.  Keep reading up until you understand how all the different factors work together.  Problem with that approach, is too much conflicting information, so keep test riding and making adjustments until you understand how they all work together and find out what works best for you.
 

[Guest autobiker]

Pardon me for hijacking this thread. I have the opposite problem. I weigh 135 lbs in gear (no body shaming here, I hope!) and the stock settings resulted in too little sag and a very harsh ride. To hit the correct sag (approx. 1/3 of total travel), I had to reduce fork and shock preload to minimum. But that brought other problems. The front dived badly during braking and became very light under acceleration or at speeds above 80mph. I even had a tankslapper at 100mph. I increased fork preload to "12mm showing" and rebound by 1/2 turn; that reduced brake dive to a tolerable level, but didn't do much for high speed stability. I then increased shock preload by 1 step and rebound by 1/2 turn, but it made the rear feel greasy at low speeds and didn't improve high speed stability significantly.
 
For reference, my bike have the FJR bags mounted, with lightweight rain gear inside. Should I keep trying to tweak the stock fork and shock, or am I wasting my time (and should get some aftermarket bits)?
 
One of my friends is selling his 2016 FJR and I am really tempted to make the jump. The only thing stopping me is its heft (and the cost, of course).

[xlxr]

The front dived badly during braking ..... fix that by increasing oil level.
 
became very light under acceleration or at speeds above 80mph.... fix that by leaning forward on the seat when you accelerate, open throttle a little slower or change engine modes or adjust accelerator position sensor, or raise the forks to lower the front a bit, and/or increasing fork rebound damping.
 
I then increased shock preload by 1 step and rebound by 1/2 turn, but it made the rear feel greasy at low speeds and didn't improve high speed stability significantly.... I am not sure what you mean by "greasey"....
 
The secret is getting good suspension is learning how to make all the fine tuning adjustments necessary to get everything working together. Get rider sag correct first, if you can't get correct rider and bike sag, might as well stop trying to adjust it until you get correct springs.
 
Once you get rider sag correct front and rear, then adjust chassis pitch by moving the forks up or down in the triple clamps to get the stability you need, and/or be able to maintain a consistent turn radius at a common turn and speed.
 
Then start fine tuning with compression / rebound adjustments. Get the shock close, then work on the forks. When forks are set, you may or may not need to readjust the shock. But since stock shock has no adjustments except preload, that is all you can do.
 
Spend some time reading up on suspension tuning for more details. I weigh 270 lbs and stock shock was so stiff, it was miserable to ride. I highly suspect early shocks were defective causing harshness. If you get a shock like that, you will never get a smooth ride and have to get aftermarket shock.
 

[woop]

Can't adjust away lame. As said before, if you are over 170 or so you need to choose one of the many options out there to improve the front forks. The engine is a dream, the suspension (for a 2015 or 16, not sure about 17) a nightmare on the verge of dangerous for heavier riders. Dips under hard braking, unstable on bumps, wobbles at serious speed. Can't expect much from a fork with one dead side.

[Guest autobiker]

The front dived badly during braking ..... fix that by increasing oil level. 
became very light under acceleration or at speeds above 80mph.... fix that by leaning forward on the seat when you accelerate, open throttle a little slower or change engine modes or adjust accelerator position sensor, or raise the forks to lower the front a bit, and/or increasing fork rebound damping.
 
I then increased shock preload by 1 step and rebound by 1/2 turn, but it made the rear feel greasy at low speeds and didn't improve high speed stability significantly.... I am not sure what you mean by "greasey"....
 
The secret is getting good suspension is learning how to make all the fine tuning adjustments necessary to get everything working together. Get rider sag correct first, if you can't get correct rider and bike sag, might as well stop trying to adjust it until you get correct springs.
 
Once you get rider sag correct front and rear, then adjust chassis pitch by moving the forks up or down in the triple clamps to get the stability you need, and/or be able to maintain a consistent turn radius at a common turn and speed.
 
Then start fine tuning with compression / rebound adjustments. Get the shock close, then work on the forks. When forks are set, you may or may not need to readjust the shock. But since stock shock has no adjustments except preload, that is all you can do.
 
Spend some time reading up on suspension tuning for more details. I weigh 270 lbs and stock shock was so stiff, it was miserable to ride. I highly suspect early shocks were defective causing harshness. If you get a shock like that, you will never get a smooth ride and have to get aftermarket shock.

I know quite a bit about suspension adjustment (I wouldn't call my turning a few adjusters "tuning") and I have done it successfully for most of my previous bikes. The problem with the Tracer's suspension is that it is so badly tuned (combination of spring rates, compression and rebound circuits) out of the factory that it is impossible (at least for me) to get it right. I set the sag right on the first day and tried out various rebound settings. Nothing could quell the light front end at high speeds (not even accelerating). By "greasy", I am referring to the feeling you get when the rear tire feels like loosing traction. It felt similar to when my tires are overheating on the track.
 
I guess the best solution is still to replace the bargain-bin stock bits with some aftermarket goodies. Or get a bike that comes well-sorted from the factory (like my previous CBR1000RR which only needed preload adjustments).

[betoney]

Can't adjust away lame. As said before, if you are over 170 or so you need to choose one of the many options out there to improve the front forks. The engine is a dream, the suspension (for a 2015 or 16, not sure about 17) a nightmare on the verge of dangerous for heavier riders. Dips under hard braking, unstable on bumps, wobbles at serious speed. Can't expect much from a fork with one dead side.

That sounds a bit over-dramatic to me, but ok.  I am 225lbs before riding gear and after setting preload, rebound and ride height, I find the stock forks "surprisingly adequate", where I feel they are lacking is in internal compression damping, rough pavement or expansion joints result in a harsh ride.  Raising the fork height dramatically helped the vague feeling at higher speed. I never experienced any severe brake dive but as XLXR said, increase the oil level, a little bit at a time, it makes a very noticeable difference.
I ride with a group of riders and we have swapped bikes several times, not one of them called it a "nightmare" or "dangerous", infact most are surprised how improved it is over the original FZ09.
While not on the same level with a custom setup, it can be adjusted to be pretty damn good.
 

[xlxr]

The problem with the Tracer's suspension is that it is so badly tuned (combination of spring rates, compression and rebound circuits) out of the factory that it is impossible (at least for me) to get it right.

Seems like you answered your own question. 
 

[Guest autobiker]

Seems like you answered your own question. 

Alright, I'll admit that I'm still in denial. I was confident that since the combined weight of myself and the FJR hard bags (with those heavy-duty mounts) would be quite close to the imaginary rider that Yamaha engineers designed the suspensions for, I could get those stockers to work. I'm secretly hoping that some suspension guru would tell me that I've been doing it all wrong (I'd own up to my incompetence, I swear) and I end up liking the stockers. 8-)
 

Some food for thought here. Not going to win you trophies at the track, but for a small investment in time and just over $100USD... not bad at all. I'd make that the first step (safe and inexpensive)... or you can go all out if you really want that trophy. Mind you, this might be the wrong bike altogether for that (unlike the CBR1000RR ).

Thanks, I'll be reading that thread soon. I'll definitely try the fork oil trick (IIRC you were the first to write about it) and many other "mods" documented on the forums before I put down the money for a full-on aftermarket setup.
 
I know what this bike is capable of and I have no illusion about that. The comparison with the CBR is merely about the quality and tuning of the stock suspension from the factory. On that note, please remind me that the Tracer is an absolute bargain (that engine alone is worth the price of entry) and I get what I paid for. (rofl)
 
 
 

[pattonme]

Pardon me for hijacking this thread. I have the opposite problem. I weigh 135 lbs in gear (no body shaming here, I hope!) and the stock settings resulted in too little sag and a very harsh ride. To hit the correct sag (approx. 1/3 of total travel), I had to reduce fork and shock preload to minimum. But that brought other problems. The front dived badly during braking and became very light under acceleration or at speeds above 80mph. I even had a tankslapper at 100mph. I increased fork preload to "12mm showing" and rebound by 1/2 turn; that reduced brake dive to a tolerable level, but didn't do much for high speed stability. I then increased shock preload by 1 step and rebound by 1/2 turn, but it made the rear feel greasy at low speeds and didn't improve high speed stability significantly.

You're going to need a shock spring in the 85N/mm (485lb/in) range. And 0.83kg/mm springs and I would shave 3mm off the fork preload tube. Do you have actual, sag values to report, both laden and unladen?  
 The OE valving is just crap so while you can play games with oil weights and maybe get acceptable results, I would recommend biting the bullet and replacing the mid-piston and shims. 

[kiwicanuck]

i see a new video on the FJ09 suspension, interesting to see what Dave Moss has to say about the triple series. I have just started watching his videos as they seem interesting.
 

[Guest autobiker]

You're going to need a shock spring in the 85N/mm (485lb/in) range. And 0.83kg/mm springs and I would shave 3mm off the fork preload tube. Do you have actual, sag values to report, both laden and unladen?  
 The OE valving is just crap so while you can play games with oil weights and maybe get acceptable results, I would recommend biting the bullet and replacing the mid-piston and shims. 

My last measured rider sag was 36mm front and 29mm rear. I have since increased fork preload by 1 "ring", and reduce shock preload by 1 step. I don't have the exact sag figures now but they should be in the "1/3 of total travel range". I have also increased fork rebound by 1/2 turn and shock rebound by 1/4 turn from factory default.
 
I dropped by my workshop today to replace the anemic stock horn with a pair of Hella twin tones. I also took the chance to move the fork tubes up the triple clamp by 8mm. I will test the new setup out over the weekend and make more measurements / adjustments.
 
I am thinking of starting with swapping out the fork springs and using a lighter fork oil.