How cold is too cold to ride?

[daboo]

Believe it or not, I rode in much colder temperatures before getting electric heated gear.  My coldest commute without heated gear was two days at 16F.

I wore a lot of layers, and blocked out any place where cold air could get in.  A neck gaiter would give me another 15 degrees of comfortable riding.  It covered the gap between the helmet and collar, and when pulled up over the nose, it left only the eyes to get the frigid air.  

I did a couple things you might take advantage of.

• First, I keep my riding gear inside in colder weather.  That way it starts at room temperature and my body heat is not being used to bring it up to comfortable temperatures from 35F.
• Look at the riding gear you have.  Notice how it has pores or open spaces between the Cordura or other material.  Now note how that mimics a wool shirt that traps warm air and keeps you warmer than other materials.
• So when the temps dip and you want to ride, put on your rain gear over your riding gear.  Your riding gear is already warm.  The rain gear will keep that warmth trapped and allow that riding gear to be another layer of warmth and not just something to keep your skin intact.

My two days at 16F came after over a week of cold dry air.  The moisture we normally have around here was pushed out by frigid air from the Fraser River Valley in British Columbia.  There was no moisture on the road at all.

The other thing to consider in riding in cold weather, is why you are riding.  I would never suggest anyone ride for "fun" on a backroads in freezing or below weather.  My riding in cold weather is almost always for commuting.  I ride the same roads every day, all year long.  In warmer times, I'm noting where moisture collects and stays after a rain.  Not just in the hours after a rain, but some places like under the Seattle Convention Center on I-5 had a specific place that always had water dripping on it for days after a rain.  So guess which place would be slick on those 20F commutes?  That spot.  It wasn't like I'd be rounding a corner and getting surprised by something I hadn't seen in months.

When you plan for it, riding in cold weather is perfectly enjoyable.  I rode to a Bible study about 20 miles away last night.  The temp was a pleasant 35F on the way home.  I wasn't cold at all.  Heated gear is soooo sweet!  When you get the right gear, you find you can have as much fun as when the temps are in the 60s or higher.

BTW, if you ride with heated gear, you still need to bring some backup non-electric gear.  All you need is one broken wire, and you are in pain.  Severe pain.  I had a wire break to my left hand glove once.  The temperature was 25F and I had to get home.  It took all I had to endure long enough to get home inside.

Chris

[maximNikenGT]

Am interested in hearing what kind of electric heated gear everyone is using.

I'm currently using a Kanetsu Air vantage electric vest from Aerostich. I wish I bought one of these when I first started motorcycling - it makes that much of a comfort difference when riding in the cold.  It works great when paired with my Arboreal Systems Neutrino Aurora with dynamic temperature adjustment. 

https://www.aerostich.com/clothing/kanetsu-heated-gear/kanetsu-electrics/aerostich-kanetsu-airvantage-electric-vest.html 

In talking with some riders up in Canada, a few of the riders have recommended using electric helmets for snowmobiling for really cold conditions. Anyone here use or have used those?

https://www.snowmobile.com/parts-gear/five-of-the-best-modular-snowmobile-helmets 
 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by maximNikenGT

[knyte]

On 12/20/2021 at 6:26 PM, daboo said:

put on your rain gear over your riding gear.  Your riding gear is already warm.  The rain gear will keep that warmth trapped and allow that riding gear to be another layer of warmth

This.  It's a bit like wearing a garbage bag, but hey - whatever works!!  It keeps the wind out just fine.

I've ridden in 5 C (41 F) in high altitudes with rain and fog and felt fine.  The worst of it was the foggy visor and my 'rain gloves' apparently weren't exactly water proof.

I know ppl who swear by Milwaukee heated gear (I plan on one this spring):

https://www.peaveymart.com/clothing/mens-coats-jackets/heated-jackets/milwaukee-mens-m12-12v-lithium-ion-cordless-black-heated-jacket-kit/204B?sourceCategoryCode=

[Ferrett847]

The cold has never really been the issue for me ,it's the combination of weather's that's the issue .However I think the coldest ride was freezing dog to the point of froze the clutch cable solid .

[Wintersdark]

23 hours ago, maximNikenGT said:

In talking with some riders up in Canada, a few of the riders have recommended using electric helmets for snowmobiling for really cold conditions. Anyone here use or have used those?

https://www.snowmobile.com/parts-gear/five-of-the-best-modular-snowmobile-helmets 
 

 

HEATED HELMETS:

In the winter, I ride with a GMax MD01-S.  It's exactly the same helmet as their MD01 (regular motorcycle helmet) but also features extra breath guards and an electric visor.  Same ECE-25 rated modular helmet.  This is very often the case: snow mobile helmets generally *are* motorcycle helmets - exactly the same part numbers - but they're often cheaper and have extra padding/features.

Even without such a helmet, though, open up fortnine/revzilla, and search for "electric visor" and "heated visor" - they're available for a number of regular helmets, and they're bloody amazing.  No icing, no fogging, feels like a sunbeam on your face while you're riding.

HEATED GEAR:

As to heated gear, I tend to run First Gear/Venture Heat/Warm 'n' Safe gear (it's all the same rebranded).  Jacket liner, glove liners or heated gloves.  Don't expect heated grips to do the job below freezing.  You want a jacket liner with sleeves because your arms are fully exposed to the wind and can't be shielded; you lose a lot of heat there.   

You can make do with a vest, but you run into that problem where while you're not freezing to death, you're not comfortable.  If you want to ride in the winter, it's crucial you're comfortable, or it won't be enjoyable. 

Generally speaking, prefer heated gear that's as thin as possible, and sized to be snug against your body.  Loose heated gear is inefficient heated gear.  You don't need insulation on your heated gear and it's generally counter productive as the added bulk just gets in the way, particularly if you've got a thermal liner on your motorcycle jacket.  Too much bulk impedes comfort, and as I said, it's crucial you're comfortable.

Heated pant liners exist, and the whole set interconnects with the jacket liner and gloves, though honestly I've never found the need.

Heated socks are the only place I'd go battery, as I don't wear heated pant liners, but here too a good pair of boots keeps the toes warm enough for me.  

Personally, I happily ride down to about -20C/-5F, at which point I'm still warm head to toe.  I'll ride down to around -30 if I'm already out and need to get home.  However, the real limiting factor here is tires.

TIRES:

With a good set of rain tires like Road 5's, I find I'm pretty happy to -15C, but after that the tires start to lose grip.  Not dangerously so, but you have to be easy on the throttle and hard acceleration can trigger traction control.  This point is around -20 to -25 on the Anlas winter tires/my Tenere's Motoz Adventures.   Below -15C, you MUST give them some time to warm up.  They'll get warm pretty quick, but when you first take off and you've got tires below -15C, they're quite slippy.  If you're NOT using rain or winter tires and instead regular sporty tires, they're going to be very, very slippy below 0C.  

What's really crucial with tires is the formulation.  Not how hard/soft they are - what temperatures they're intended to run at.  Most sport tires are very soft, but they're formulated to grip best at higher temperatures, and in the winter your tires are not going to get warm enough. Most sport tires recommend a minimum temperature of 13C!  What you REALLY want is tires with high silica content.  Silica makes tires grip water MUCH better - frozen or otherwise - and grip much better when cold.  Thus, at a minimum, tires formulated for rain.  

The grip difference between Road 5's and the stock Dunlops on icy pavement is absolutely amazing.  

SNOW:

So, if you don't have actual winter tires, don't bother trying to ride in snow.  With winters, a light dusting of snow (less than an inch) is manageable and feels like riding in dirt.  With my Tenere's studded Motoz knobbies, I'm pretty good for 2" of snow.  You DO need to maintain much longer follow distances than normal, of course, because you've basically only got the rear brake for stopping - got to be really careful with the front brake.  ABS is a very real question: I keep ABS on, despite it lengthening stopping distances with the rear only in the snow (in a similar manner to how it does offroad), because with ABS on I can use the front as well.  With ABS off, it's too easy to lock the front and if you do that, you hit the ground fast.  If you've got a better hand for the front brake than I do, you may be better off with ABS off, but... eeeeh.  Traction control is great in the snow. 

STUDS: 

They work, and they work pretty darn well, but they're spendy.  For tubeless 17" MC tires, you'd want smaller studs due to the lack of tread depth - iGrip SS08's or SS11's, depending on tread depth.  A set of 17" 70/30 M+S rated adventure tires with studs is a very strong option here.  However, the studs are expensive.  I've got $300cad in studs in my Tenere (300 SS11's, 21+18 rims make for big tires), but don't bother with them on the Tracer (and also don't ride the Tracer in as poor of conditions).  You'd be looking at $170cad to stud a pair of 17's with 200 SS08's. 

SUMMARY:

Conditions matter, much more than temperature.  If you're in a humid area, you'll find temps around freezing are by far the worst, because you get lots of ice from melting snow, and melt/freeze cycles result in thicker, smoother ice.  Cold is much less of a problem, so long as your tires can still grip.  The coldest I've ever ridden was around -35 to -40C (this on my old MT07), and was still warm there, but for spots.  Knees got cold and that sucked - if I where to ride in these temps, I'd actually invest in heated pant liners.  Grip was kinda poor - not so bad that you can't ride safely at the speed limit, but it was pretty easy to break the rear loose with an twitchy wrist.  Below -15C, it's very unforgiving: absolutely no exposed skin.  Exposed skin will freeze, and that's no fun. A neck gaiter stuffed under the helmet/over the jacket collar to prevent wind ingress, good seals around your wrists between jacket and gloves, good boots.  Riding overpants (particularly waterproof ones, or ones with a waterproof liner) help keep the legs warm.  Cinch that waist line up: a cold breeze up your back is not a good time.

[knyte]

Outstanding observations!

That's so badass.

[Wintersdark]

23 hours ago, knyte said:

This.  It's a bit like wearing a garbage bag, but hey - whatever works!!  It keeps the wind out just fine.

I've ridden in 5 C (41 F) in high altitudes with rain and fog and felt fine.  The worst of it was the foggy visor and my 'rain gloves' apparently weren't exactly water proof.

I know ppl who swear by Milwaukee heated gear (I plan on one this spring):

https://www.peaveymart.com/clothing/mens-coats-jackets/heated-jackets/milwaukee-mens-m12-12v-lithium-ion-cordless-black-heated-jacket-kit/204B?sourceCategoryCode=

My wife has one of these.  They're actually pretty damn good.  Not nearly as much heat output as a plug in jacket liner, but excellent for general purpose wearing when it's cold out.  They're a great way to be warm and comfy when out and about in our winter temps, but I'd never want to rely on a battery operated heated gear while riding: if the battery dies, you suddenly find yourself *VERY* cold.  If you're really on top of charging and track how long it's good for, that may be ok, but I'd forget to charge it for sure.

[knyte]

...Those are great points.  At a casual glance at Fortnine, the cost of a plug-in heated jacket is actually a bit less.  Hm!

[Wintersdark]

5 hours ago, knyte said:

...Those are great points.  At a casual glance at Fortnine, the cost of a plug-in heated jacket is actually a bit less.  Hm!

This is what I'm using right now: https://www.blackfootonline.ca/venture-heat-deluxe-e-jacket-liner

Blackfoot online is the online store of a local Calgary dealership.

It's very thin, and comfortable to wear under your jacket even on a warm day.  It packs up small, too, though I rarely bother removing it - so much nicer than having to bring multiple layers on a trip; just pressing a button at your waist or the wireless remove control (comes with a handlebar mount) and you're instantly toasty. 

I prefer this control scheme to the Gerbing/Warm'n'safe "heat controller" method with the knobs, mostly because I don't really see a need for more granular control than 3 stages, and it's less wires and fiddling.  They don't expect you to pay extra for the heat controller or wiring harness, which is always a plus.  Note that all of these use the same barrel connectors, so they are compatible with each other.  

[texscottyd]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:23 AM, Wintersdark said:

I happily ride down to about -20C/-5F

😳

[whistler]

On 12/20/2021 at 6:15 AM, maximNikenGT said:

"How cold does it have to be for you in order to winterize your bike for the season?"

If you see a coyote trying to push-start a jackrabbit . . . it's too cold to ride.  Stay inside and have a nice hot toddy.  As always, though - YMMV.

 

 

 

 

[Wintersdark]

So today?  Today is too cold to ride.  It's -35 today.

 

That's too cold to ride.  It's too cold to be outside at all.

[texscottyd]

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Today is too cold to ride.  It's -35 today.

I was going to ask if that’s C or F, but then decided it was an irrelevant question… -35 is ridiculously cold either way.  

On the bright side, it’s not Kelvin!   

[angrygirafe]

2 minutes ago, texscottyd said:

I was going to ask if that’s C or F, but then decided it was an irrelevant question… -35 is ridiculously cold either way.  

On the bright side, it’s not Kelvin!   

The funny part is you’re  totally right. -40C = -40F, so in that range, it really doesn’t matter  😂

[maximNikenGT]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:24 PM, angrygirafe said:

The funny part is you’re  totally right. -40C = -40F, so in that range, it really doesn’t matter  😂

I'm curious as to what temperature does the LCD display no longer work because of the cold...?

Edited December 30, 2021 by maximNikenGT