Headlight Assembly problem! Help!!

[cantin]

Hello all,

So admittedly I bought a tracer 900 2015 with a nonworking headlight. Figured I scored a deal enough to replace it and still have a nice bike. In my investigations I have found that the assembly needs to be replaced. But I figured before committing to finding a used one, I would check here if anyone knows some valuable secrets.

From what I understand there are two power source, 1 for running lights on the top bar. On my unit these work. Although the low and high beam do not. I checked the modulator and from all for pins coming out of it my voltage meter reads 12vs so I have decided it must be something inside the unit itself. Does anyone have experience with this. Or experience opening the assembly itself? Could it be so simple as connectors dislodging from the circuit inside? Is it reasonable to open the assembly itself? 
 

any information will be apprieciated

[betoney]

4 minutes ago, cantin said:

Hello all,

So admittedly I bought a tracer 900 2015 with a nonworking headlight. Figured I scored a deal enough to replace it and still have a nice bike. In my investigations I have found that the assembly needs to be replaced. But I figured before committing to finding a used one, I would check here if anyone knows some valuable secrets.

From what I understand there are two power source, 1 for running lights on the top bar. On my unit these work. Although the low and high beam do not. I checked the modulator and from all for pins coming out of it my voltage meter reads 12vs so I have decided it must be something inside the unit itself. Does anyone have experience with this. Or experience opening the assembly itself? Could it be so simple as connectors dislodging from the circuit inside? Is it reasonable to open the assembly itself? 
 

any information will be apprieciated

I cant offer much in the way of technical info of disassembly or repairing the unit.  In the photo, the green circled area is the running light that comes on with the turn of the key, the red circled area is the main lamp and ONLY works when the engine is running and then only one has low beam so even 'working correctly', only one will be illuminated when the engine is running while low beam is selected.

[cantin]

1 hour ago, betoney said:

I cant offer much in the way of technical info of disassembly or repairing the unit.  In the photo, the green circled area is the running light that comes on with the turn of the key, the red circled area is the main lamp and ONLY works when the engine is running and then only one has low beam so even 'working correctly', only one will be illuminated when the engine is running while low beam is selected.

yes. That is correct.
The problem is not that we have one side on at a time.
It is simply that there is no main beam, high or low beam. Not while Running, idle, off, day or night. 

From what I understand the light controller unit sends current into the main beam led's. But neither side seems to be responding to current. 

lets see if anyone else has some insights 

 

[skipperT]

You’re not going to like this answer, but it could actually be the driver circuit inside the ECM that’s blown, not the headlight control unit. 

I answered you in the other thread, but let’s use this one to figure this out. Do you have access to a service manual?

the LEDS don’t operate on 12v, IIRC they fire at 18-24vDC. That’s the job of the Control unit-switched by the ECM via an input from the headlight switch, to step up the current and fire the lights. However I need to check the wiring diagram and get back to you.  Don’t order anything yet…

-Skip

[cantin]

YIKKESSS! I hope not. 

No unfortunately I don't. Does anyone have a pdf they can link me? 2015 European Spec Tracer.

I'll wait then before ordering the new assembly. 

Thanks, Cantin

[cantin]

18 minutes ago, cantin said:

YIKKESSS! I hope not. 

No unfortunately I don't. Does anyone have a pdf they can link me? 2015 European Spec Tracer.

I'll wait then before ordering the new assembly. 

Thanks, Cantin

I did find a PDF of the service manual. I looked at the wiring diagram but also some of the troubleshooting. 

"Faulty Lighting or Signaling System
 Headlight does not come on
-Faulty dimmer/pass switch
- Too many electrical accessories
- Hard charging
-Improperly grounded circuit
- Poor contacts (main or light switch)
- Faulty headlight assembly"

 

[glaschu]

Jumping into trying to (maybe destructively) opening the headlight unit seems premature here. There must be separate supplies to the unit for the daytime running lights, the dipped beam and the headlight. It would make sense to check that these go live when they're supposed to first. Or if you have documentation of the connector pins on the headlamp unit you could try applying 12V manually (a nice current limited supply would reduce the possibility of things going pop if ypu get connections wrong). But probably first - have you checked all the bike fuses?

[skipperT]

@cantin ok here’s a couple things to get you started:

conditions: if engine starts and runs, the only fuse to be concerned with is the Headlight fuse. 7.5a, located in the (most forward) fuse box that’s under the RH fairing, near the radiator cap

There are 2 couplers in the LCU (lighting control unit relay). One is 6P, the other is 4P (strictly) output to the LEDS

its important to understand how this system works: on the 6P connector, power comes into the LCU on 2 Green wires, the ECM provides ground switching on Yellow and Yellow/Black, and the last 2 black wire pins are Ground for the LCU.

what about the headlight switch? you ask: the headlight (LH) switch is interpreted by the ECM when it decides what to do with either the Y or Y/Bk wire. 

Think of the LCU as just a big ordinary relay that increases the current for the LEDs on demand from the ECM. 

in my mind I would check first for 12+V on the green wires in to LCU, check continuity to ground on both black wires. 

the next steps are up to you.
-Either jump ground to the Y/Bk circuit and see if the Low beam headlight lights up.

-OR follow the electrical plug from the LH switch assy to where it connects to the main harness, disconnect it and check for continuity when the switch is in Hi, Low, and Pass.

there is some risk to components if you jump ground to the Y/Bk lead at the 6P connector. 

more later. Post your results or questions.

-Skip

[cantin]

@skipperT

So, as the stuff before mentioned was taken at the word of the guys in the shop I figured I would check for myself. 

Going into the LCU, both green wires read more than 12v on the multimeter with engine running (also each were tested to both black ground wires) and about 11.8 with engine off.

After that I figured I would take my probs and see what came out of the LCU. I tested it in every combination, motor running motor off, high, low beam and pass. Each side of the LCU left or right reads 0.22Vs.......


This differs from what the guy from the shop said. I dont know if that changes the strategy for diagnosis or not. 
Also how would you suggest I jump the ground? Also how deep in is the connection where the LH switch attaches to the main harness? also should I test for continuity between the harness and the switch lead? or where exactly do you mean I should test for continuity?

TIA
Cantin 

[cantin]

also the fuse 7.5a for headlight was fine, I visually inspected it and it was not popped and also I tested it for continuity and it was fine 

[cantin]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:53 AM, glaschu said:

Jumping into trying to (maybe destructively) opening the headlight unit seems premature here. There must be separate supplies to the unit for the daytime running lights, the dipped beam and the headlight. It would make sense to check that these go live when they're supposed to first. Or if you have documentation of the connector pins on the headlamp unit you could try applying 12V manually (a nice current limited supply would reduce the possibility of things going pop if ypu get connections wrong). But probably first - have you checked all the bike fuses?

yea I decided to pull back and do some checks first.

But Im not so savvy when it comes to electronics. I have a multimeter at my disposal and a soldering iron. But I am by no means an electronic wizard. Does anyone know what the output of the Light Control Unit should be? Can I test it effectively with a multimeter? 

@skipperT seems to suggest to check the continuity of the the light switch, so that is my next task I suppose, Im hoping to not have to take off too many more panels and not to have to dig too deep to find where it attaches to wiring harness. 

Any suggestions are appreciated. 

 

[dazzler24]

Not wanting to hijack @skipperThelpful thread as after having a look at the circuit diagram in a service manual, I respectfully believe that his steps in diagnosis are spot on and he has much knowledge with these machines.  But as you've asked for suggestions here's my offering -

1. When you were checking for output to the LED headlights, did you or can you check that you are getting a high beam indicator lamp come up (when switched to high beam of course) on the display panel (61 arrowed in the wiring drawing)?  Once again, only when the motor is running and the headlamps are plugged in.

2. If yes then that would(should) indicate that you are getting a valid signal from the ECU to the Headlamp Control Unit (HCU) and hence rule the ECU out as the problem.

3. If the answer is no then it could be two things - the headlamp switch or wiring through it is faulty however the low beam should still work as the wiring bypasses the switch completely OR the signal from the ECU is not getting through = Faulty ECU or faulty connection to ECU.

I would be removing the tank so you can access the ECU, 1st ensure that the ECU plugs are all the way home- push firmly (don't laugh as there have been more than one that have been plugged home but not quite and hence some pins not touching creating all sorts of confusion!)

If ECU plugs are confirmed firmly home, proceed to now remove the plugs and find that Y/B wire and ensure that it has not backed out of its mounting position. i.e. push pull it (gently) from the back side to see if it wants to come out of the plug.  If so then hopefully you've found your problem and can push it home, seat it properly and hence a cheap fix.

If not then it would appear that you have either a faulty ECU (you don't want that) or a problem HCU given that you report no voltage output toward the LED headlights when all the inputs are reported as nominal - as long as the above is true. i.e - signal on the LO and HI beam inputs after your tests.

Sidenote - The headlamp control switch on the handlebars could be checked for continuity but looking at the wiring diagram only the hibeam signal wire is routed through there and the lowbeam wiring bypasses the switch entirely straight to the HCU.  I know there's a low beam marking on the switch but I'm assuming that's just for clarity.

Hope this is of some help.  The skipper is your goto man at the end of the day.

Good luck.

[cantin]

5 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

Not wanting to hijack @skipperThelpful thread as after having a look at the circuit diagram in a service manual, I respectfully believe that his steps in diagnosis are spot on and he has much knowledge with these machines.  But as you've asked for suggestions here's my offering -

1. When you were checking for output to the LED headlights, did you or can you check that you are getting a high beam indicator lamp come up (when switched to high beam of course) on the display panel (61 arrowed in the wiring drawing)?  Once again, only when the motor is running and the headlamps are plugged in.

2. If yes then that would(should) indicate that you are getting a valid signal from the ECU to the Headlamp Control Unit (HCU) and hence rule the ECU out as the problem.

3. If the answer is no then it could be two things - the headlamp switch or wiring through it is faulty however the low beam should still work as the wiring bypasses the switch completely OR the signal from the ECU is not getting through = Faulty ECU or faulty connection to ECU.

I would be removing the tank so you can access the ECU, 1st ensure that the ECU plugs are all the way home- push firmly (don't laugh as there have been more than one that have been plugged home but not quite and hence some pins not touching creating all sorts of confusion!)

If ECU plugs are confirmed firmly home, proceed to now remove the plugs and find that Y/B wire and ensure that it has not backed out of its mounting position. i.e. push pull it (gently) from the back side to see if it wants to come out of the plug.  If so then hopefully you've found your problem and can push it home, seat it properly and hence a cheap fix.

If not then it would appear that you have either a faulty ECU (you don't want that) or a problem HCU given that you report no voltage output toward the LED headlights when all the inputs are reported as nominal - as long as the above is true. i.e - signal on the LO and HI beam inputs after your tests.

Sidenote - The headlamp control switch on the handlebars could be checked for continuity but looking at the wiring diagram only the hibeam signal wire is routed through there and the lowbeam wiring bypasses the switch entirely straight to the HCU.  I know there's a low beam marking on the switch but I'm assuming that's just for clarity.

Hope this is of some help.  The skipper is your goto man at the end of the day.

Good luck.

Thanks man!

So I again tested while running and I can confirm that there is 'no headlight high beam symbol' coming up on the dash when running, not in pass or in high beam position.
Also there is no low/high beam shining during that test.


Also a few questions.
To prevent having to dismantle half the bike to take the tank off, is there any way to test the HCU to see if it is the problem? The guy I bought it from did say that he tried a replacement HCU and that didn't solve the problem. He suspected then that it was the headlight, but I have all but discounted what he has said and would rather check myself. 

Also is there anyway to check for continuity between the yellow and yellow/black wire that come from the ecu? I dont really understand the electronics of this 'input' but I assume it more or less signals the HCU for which output to send, high or low beam. Is there a way with a multimeter to test if we are getting any signal from the ecu? If needed I will take off the tank and do the above mentioned. 

Or is the diagnostic move now to jump ground to yellow/black and see if we get a low beam? What are the risks involved with this and how do one actually jump the ground without having to open a wiring sheath?

TIA

Cantin 

 

[skipperT]

6 hours ago, cantin said:

Thanks man!

So I again tested while running and I can confirm that there is 'no headlight high beam symbol' coming up on the dash when running, not in pass or in high beam position.
Also there is no low/high beam shining during that test.

What Daz is saying is accurate, based on my interpretation of the wiring diagram as well. If you look closely just above the “block” which represents the LCU/HCU you’ll see a “dot” that indicates that the wire running between the high beam indicator and the LCU parallel connects to that wire at some point. Meaning, the high beam indicator will or won’t come on based on a complete circuit being present on that wire ie when the high beam is on. 

Also a few questions.
To prevent having to dismantle half the bike to take the tank off, is there any way to test the HCU to see if it is the problem? The guy I bought it from did say that he tried a replacement HCU and that didn't solve the problem. He suspected then that it was the headlight, but I have all but discounted what he has said and would rather check myself. 
 

Hate to break it to you but the ECM lives under the tank, so it’s coming off if you want to pursue troubleshooting this issue. Shouldn’t take more than 10-15 minutes to get to the ECM.
 

Theres only 2 ways to test the LCU: swap in a know good one, or jump ground to the wire which will activate the LCU/HCU instead of the ECM - which will tell you if the rest of the circuit (led light and wires) are any good. Your measurement of 0.2 v is what I would expect since the light isn’t working. when operational  you should see 18-48v output to the led light  

Also is there anyway to check for continuity between the yellow and yellow/black wire that come from the ecu?

yes, disconnect the ECM and check the 2 wires for continuity between the ECM plug and the LCU/HCU 6P plug  (ohms setting on your meter).

I dont really understand the electronics of this 'input' but I assume it more or less signals the HCU for which output to send, high or low beam. Is there a way with a multimeter to test if we are getting any signal from the ecu? If needed I will take off the tank and do the above mentioned.

I think so: Check for continuity to ground when the bike is started  on the wires of the 6P connector. I don’t know if it’s better to do while everything in the circuit is connected. You’ll need to back-probe the connectors which requires a special needle like probe (NOT A PAPER CLIP!!!!) in order to measure it. Or if an accurate measurement can be gotten with everything connected EXCEPT the 6P connector to the LCU/HCU

Easier in my mind to jump ground to that circuit and see if the light fires. 
 
Or is the diagnostic move now to jump ground to yellow/black and see if we get a low beam? What are the risks involved with this and how do one actually jump the ground without having to open a wiring sheath?

best way is to Back probe the 6P connector while running the bike- *connect a (minimum 16-18 gauge wire) between battery ground (black terminal) and  the back probe you’ve inserted into the Y/Bk wire cavity on the 6P connector.  
 

The other hack move would be to cut the wire just before the connector leaving enough length to work with, strip and connect your battery ground there. (connector side NOT harness side in this case). You’ll need to be prepared to solder the wires back together when all this is finished. There’s no going back if you cut here, Yamaha only sells complete harnesses. 
 

basically this is taking the place of the ECM going to ground , which is what I believe is lacking on your bike. 

I can try to find some time today to prove this theory in my bike if you’re nervous (understandable). Maybe @dazzler24 or another member will follow this thought process and confirm our thinking. In my mind the ECM provides ground on that Y or Y/Bk wire, NOT a voltage signal. 

hopefully this all makes sense. I’m on my mobile, so don’t know if this response will be clear. 

BTW @dazzler24 you’re too kind…. (Blushes)

And thanks for chiming in.

-Skip

[skipperT]

I just re-read my reply for clarity and don’t know if it’ll make sense. Couple things:

you’ll need to open the “cantin said” box to view the whole rely I think…

-when Daz says HCU and I say LCU we are talking about the same component.

-the Y/Bk wire only exists off a parallel connection off of the Y wire and is used by the LH switch. I think it may be a Y wire X2 at the 6P connector. This is marked in the electrical diagram screenshot that Daz posted but it’s difficult to see. However it’s an important detail to keep in mind. 
 

i also forgot to answer your switch test question. Fairly certain that it connects to the main harness either under the LH or RH fairing (where you found the fuse box near the rad cap=RH side, similar plug may exist on LH. )

either way, if you pull the tank (which you should do for a complete diagnostic, instead of guessing or assuming) you’ll have those panels off anyway.

-S

Edited January 30, 2022 by skipperT