Valve clearance check (timing of) in the real world.

[PhotoAl]

In the midst of checking valves.  Bike as almost 19,000 miles on it so early.  All intakes were OK but exhaust were real tight!

Below is what I've measured and plan to do, Leaving intakes alone and adjusting all the exhausts.  Looking at the clearances makes me wonder if it was built with the wrong specs!  Exhausts are so close to the intakes and every one would fall into the OK spec for an intake.  I measured all the shims with my digital micrometer.  It may be a little bit off but the difference between the old and new is what is important.  

Have to love the web site - "oh I can only upload a JPG or similar, no PDFs sigh.  Took a photo of a print with my phone!

 

 

[piotrek]

25 minutes ago, PhotoAl said:

In the midst of checking valves.  Bike as almost 19,000 miles on it so early.  All intakes were OK but exhaust were real tight!

Mine were also stupid tight at first check (see here). Good news though (potentially)... next check they held up fine and I didn't have to adjust. 🙂

[dazzler24]

1 hour ago, PhotoAl said:

In the midst of checking valves.  Bike as almost 19,000 miles on it so early.  All intakes were OK but exhaust were real tight!

Below is what I've measured and plan to do, Leaving intakes alone and adjusting all the exhausts.  Looking at the clearances makes me wonder if it was built with the wrong specs!  Exhausts are so close to the intakes and every one would fall into the OK spec for an intake.  I measured all the shims with my digital micrometer.  It may be a little bit off but the difference between the old and new is what is important.  

Have to love the web site - "oh I can only upload a JPG or similar, no PDFs sigh.  Took a photo of a print with my phone!

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, piotrek said:

Mine were also stupid tight at first check (see here). Good news though (potentially)... next check they held up fine and I didn't have to adjust. 🙂

I can't help but wonder why some people report tight valves and others (like mine) were just fine.  Were some fortunate to have the 'A' team do their motors while others had the after lunch on Friday crew?

Japanese quality and attention to detail has always been so good so...??  Who would know.

[PhotoAl]

I agree, some have speculated the valve seats were not seated well but I have to wonder if they set the exhaust to the intake specs.  My intakes were all fine so not messing with them.  I've run out of shims anyway.

[PhotoAl]

OK, big sigh of relief!  Cams back in place and timing is OK.  Exhaust valves check at 

0.30, 0.28, 0,30, 0.28, 0.27, 0.28

Very close to my predictions and only one was tighter than I wanted but knew that was going to be the case.  It is a loose 0.25 but 0.28 just barely a no go.  Compared to what they were they are perfect!  Now o put everything else back together!

[2and3cylinders]

QA & QC maybe we're lacking on certain shifts certainly in 2015.

Mine were all tight early. 2nd check ok. 3rd several exhaust and an intake or 2 needed attention. 

Hoping I get lucky again next check which at my current rate will not be until 2024. LOL not.

[PhotoAl]

It was not the incredible difficult job I expected.  Everything has gone pretty well - well all I've put back together is the cams and tensioner and checked timing and clearances.  In a day or so I'll add a good description of what I went thru.  Zip tying the timing chain to the cams and then rolling the exhaust towards the intake worked out very well.  I pulled the tensioner before taking the cam journals off and was careful with everything on re-assembly.  I was a little worried that I might have skilled a tooth down below but after rotating several times and checking both 0 TDC and 125 BTDC timing marks it is good.  I put everything back together with a good coat of oil and assembly lube on the journals.  I used a magnet out of an old hard drive to pull the buckets out - a piece of paper towel between the magnet and the bucket.  That worked very well!  

So far much easier than my CBR600RR - more valves and I had to completely re-time it.  Interesting thing about that was it was not perfectly timed.  Now I know what they are talking about when the say degree'ing the cams.  Less than a tooth off but I expected on the engine for it to be exact but it wasn't.  Maybe 1/4 tooth or less.  It ran good afterwards and had a very strong top end but compared with the Tracer no bottom end - duh it's a 600 I4 with a 15,000 RPM redline.  

[dazzler24]

10 hours ago, PhotoAl said:

It was not the incredible difficult job I expected.  Everything has gone pretty well - well all I've put back together is the cams and tensioner and checked timing and clearances.  In a day or so I'll add a good description of what I went thru.  Zip tying the timing chain to the cams and then rolling the exhaust towards the intake worked out very well.  I pulled the tensioner before taking the cam journals off and was careful with everything on re-assembly.  I was a little worried that I might have skilled a tooth down below but after rotating several times and checking both 0 TDC and 125 BTDC timing marks it is good.  I put everything back together with a good coat of oil and assembly lube on the journals.  I used a magnet out of an old hard drive to pull the buckets out - a piece of paper towel between the magnet and the bucket.  That worked very well!  

So far much easier than my CBR600RR - more valves and I had to completely re-time it.  Interesting thing about that was it was not perfectly timed.  Now I know what they are talking about when the say degree'ing the cams.  Less than a tooth off but I expected on the engine for it to be exact but it wasn't.  Maybe 1/4 tooth or less.  It ran good afterwards and had a very strong top end but compared with the Tracer no bottom end - duh it's a 600 I4 with a 15,000 RPM redline.  

I had never done this task before myself and, as you have just mentioned, it was a fairly easy job at the end of the day.

Having said that, I got a load of help/information/tips from those within these hallowed forum halls so that of course can make an otherwise 'hard' job seem easy.

I'm interested to hear if your riding experience changes noticably now that the lash is back in spec.

[PhotoAl]

Haven't had the bike out yet.  Did run it until the cooling fan came on.  Valve train seemed to be noisier than before but probably somewhat in my head and too tight exhaust valves make less noise.

Standard stuff, seats off, plastics off.

Siphoned most of the fuel out and removed tank - wow was the fuel line fiddly!  Got it off after a while of messing with it CAREFULLY!  

Pulled airbox off - not too bad, loosen the TB clamps using a 1/4" drive flexible extension worked well.

Took air injection hoses off - not too bad.  A couple of hose clamps that were a tiny challenge.

Carefully drained radiator placid 3/4 of old coolant in the pan and the rest on the garage floor.  I did not remove the coolant reservoir tank simple disconnected the hose from the radiator.  Pulled the hoses off of the radiator, again carefully placing coolant in the skid plate and some on the floor.  I got good at mopping the floor.  Disconnected the fan and unbolted the radiator and it was out of the way.  As others have said it is possible to do this without removing the radiator but I choose to to make it simpler.  

Removed valve cover - simple.

Took off the crankshaft end cover and the timing inspection bolt - left side of engine.

Checked timing and then checked valve clearances - Wow, oh no, big surprise they are not in spec.  Not even close LOL what did I expect!  intakes were fine.  

Zip tied timing chain to sprockets on the cams.

Removed the timing chain tensioner.

Spent an hour figuring out how to retract the tensioner,

Removed the cam bearing journal caps - loosen 1/4 turn on each bolt and keep going around until they are all loose enough to remove by hand.

Put a cloth over the intake cam and "rolled' exhaust cam up so could access lifter buckets.

Pulled buckets out along with their shims.  Carefully placing each bucket and associated shim in a labeled plastic parts box - one that has a bunch of compartments so everything is kept separate.  To pull the buckets used an old hard drive magnet on the top - carefully putting a piece of paper toweling between them to avoid scratching the bucket.

Measured each shim with a digital micrometer.  I mad a spreadsheet that calculated the needed shim thickness using the existing shim thickness and the old valve clearance.  It calculate the desired shim thickness.  Clearance specs are 0.26 to 0.30.  I aimed for 0.28.  I wound up with one between 0.26 and 0.27 and another just over 0.29.  I exhausted all of the shims of the proper size from my several year old HotCams shim set.  After re-assemble the clearances came out very close to the calculated values.

Now to put everything back together.  Used engine oil and assemble lube on all parts when putting back together. Oil on the shims and buckets but assemble lube on the bearing journals. 

Carefully put exhaust cam in position making sure the timing chain from the exhaust cam to the sprocket was tight.  It seemed a bit loose but turned out it was ok.

Lubricated timing chain tensioner with assembly lube and worked it back and forth several times.  I moved very freely and don't expect any issues with it.  Installed tensioner.

Checked timing several times which included rotating the engine the proper direction (counter clockwise - don't trust me check the manual).  All was good!  Wahoo all I need to do now is put everything back together.  

Valve cover - had to go buy some gasket tack to get it to stick on the valve cover but otherwise just reverse of disassemble.  Torque everything carefully and to specs using a digital torque wrench (strain gauge based).  Those are the best for us non-mechanics who do not have top of the line calibrated frequently torque wrenches.  Always torque bolts dry unless specified otherwise.  Bolts with oil and grease on the threads turn easier and the same torque will have a stronger clamping force and possible stripping a bolt or nut.  

First start was a nervous one but it fired up and ran perfectly. 

EDIT:  Assembly was pretty much a reverse of disassembly.

EDIT: Got it all back together and took it out to bed in the brakes and tires and check everything out.  Runs just the same and everything works.  Before cleaning the front rotors and putting EBC HH pads on the front had a fairly bad grabby spot on the rotors.  Coming to a stop it would suddenly stop and was a bit more challenging to stop smoothly.  Felt like the rotors were warped.  Cleaning rotors and new pads and now it stops very smoothly with good bite.  Not many miles on it but did a good number of slowdowns to 5 to 10 mph from 30 to 50 mph.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by PhotoAl

[bwringer]

It's completely standard for exhaust valve clearances to close up at a much faster rate than intakes; that's where all the heat is.

And it's also quite typical for clearances to "settle in" and change very little after the first and maybe second valve clearance checks.

I'd say the evidence is quite clear that it's a good idea to check the CP3 engine's clearances somewhat early the first time through, at 18-20,000 miles or so.

[2and3cylinders]

36 minutes ago, bwringer said:

It's completely standard for exhaust valve clearances to close up at a much faster rate than intakes; that's where all the heat is.

And it's also quite typical for clearances to "settle in" and change very little after the first and maybe second valve clearance checks.

I'd say the evidence is quite clear that it's a good idea to check the CP3 engine's clearances somewhat early the first time through, at 18-20,000 miles or so.

 I'm not sure about setting in

 Of course my 1st check early they were all tight including the intake I mean radically so

 The 2nd within was fine

 The 3rd after a total of  53000 miles 3 or 4 of the exhaust and one of the intake had to be changed

 I'm getting good at checking them jackingham though I am a little crazy because I pull the Cam chain tensioner tensioner slider assembly

 Makes timing the cams a lot easier

 Or spark plug  Access I just tip the radiator without disconnecting hoses about disconnecting hoses just the overflow and radiator fan and of course the top and bottom connections

 I can get the valve cover out this way as well 

Which is a lot easier than the front valve cover on my VTR, what up PITA

[peteinpa]

Yeah, my V65 Sabre had a 2 part rear valve cover so it could be slid out under the frame. Bad. Screw and lock nut adjustment. Good.

 

[ItsTracerTime]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:14 AM, dazzler24 said:

That's almost word for word of what the mechanic said!  You're all over it 2and 3. 🙂

On another note, I found that when doing my throttle body sync the white screw no longer cut it as master so now I've got a new 'master'.  Was 3 and now 2.  I noticed at the last sync it was very marginal but now enough of a change in the vacuum to warrant the switch.

Did you do the sync with the airbox mounted or removed? I just ordered a carbtune, and think I can do it WITH the airbox on, but have only seen it done with it removed... I'm sure that affects the sync right?

[2and3cylinders]

1 hour ago, ItsTracerTime said:

Did you do the sync with the airbox mounted or removed? I just ordered a carbtune, and think I can do it WITH the airbox on, but have only seen it done with it removed... I'm sure that affects the sync right?

Easier if not mandatory with box off and it makes no difference.

Again, I check sync also at various upper revs and average with jurisprudence. 

[dazzler24]

6 hours ago, ItsTracerTime said:

Did you do the sync with the airbox mounted or removed? I just ordered a carbtune, and think I can do it WITH the airbox on, but have only seen it done with it removed... I'm sure that affects the sync right?

I've always done mine with the airbox removed.

Can you get access to the adjusters with it still in-situ?