Overheating issue

[Oddjob]

Hey ladies and gents,

 

Seemingly out of nowhere my FJ09 has started running hot in general, and overheating in traffic. If I’m in standstill traffic it will slowly climb in temp and for the first time ever when the fan turns on, it just slows the temp creep down instead of reversing it. 
 

It will go all the way up to 240 degrees and even hit “Hi” if I let it get to that point(which I only did once). 
 

Right now it’s at the dealer mechanic and they just called me saying that fluid levels and everything are perfect and they’re having a hard time figuring it out.

 

I let them know that the ECU has been Dyno tuned and the fan cut on temp was lowered but that I had been riding for this entire season with no issue before. They seem to think that could be it but it doesn’t make sense to me because this just started happening with months prior no issues. 
 

Looking for any help, really hoping I can figure this out. Before this started happening it would never go above like 224 and the fan would always steadily drop the temps even in extended slow traffic. 
 

The coolant was replaced just a few months ago. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Oddjob

[Oddjob]

Well, just got another call and they said at idle the water pump isn’t pumping enough so they’re gonna replace that as well as the thermostat assembly. RIP wallet. 

[dazzler24]

Hmmm.... I would have thought trying a new thermostat and or radiator cap first to see if that resolved the problem would be the sensible approach before diving straight in for a new water pump?!  Much cheaper and more often than not are the things that cause this kind of problem rather than a water pump.

And assuming the bike is at operating temperature and the shop reports that the water pump is not pumping enough still could mean a thermostat that hasn't opened or not opened enough to allow the required flow rate - IMHO.

Not saying it can't be the water pump of course but much cheaper and quicker to try the other two first - my 2 cents worth.

[Ziggy105]

It appears that the shop is throwing parts at the issue.

The only way that I know of the water pump not flowing enough coolant would be if the pump impellers were damaged to the point where coolant was not being circulated.

I would want to inspect the old pump and ask them for an explanation of the flow issue.

Just my 2 cents.

[dazzler24]

15 hours ago, Ziggy105 said:

The only way that I know of the water pump not flowing enough coolant would be if the pump impellers were damaged to the point where coolant was not being circulated.

.... or that the thermostat was not open or only partially open.

I have to wonder - how did they check or know that the pump was not pumping enough water at idle? (assuming the bike had been running long enough to be at a nominal operating temperature range)

AFAIK A reasonable test would be to hold the water pump outlet pipe with a bare hand to feel if the temperature was rising or not as the bike was warming up.  Again - the possibility of the thermostat not opening or opening completely?

I'm interested in knowing the outcome.  Hopefully it's not - "we changed both and it's now fixed - end of discussion." 

[skipperT]

Replace the radiator cap before you go any further. Order a Yamaha cap, top up the cooling system, fire the bike up on the side stand, idle 1 minute, shut it off, top off the rad again if it “burbs”, install cap, fire it up again in your driveway and idle untill fan comes on - monitoring the temp. If it rises beyond 220F/110C then you have another issue.

if the cooling system can’t build pressure, it will overheat and boil-over. 
the odds of a water pump drive gear stripping enough to slow the coolant flow, or of debris wearing down the impeller fins - are extremely low. 

The FIRST thing the tech should have done is pressure tested the cap and the cooling system. sounds as if this step was skipped (…)

-Skip

[Lone Wolf]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:13 PM, Oddjob said:

... the water pump isn’t pumping enough so they’re gonna replace that 

The first thing a failing water pump will manifest on any vehicle is slight leaking or bearing noise. And that is usually at high mileage. Neither of those manifestations affect temperature.

[Oddjob]

Yikes, thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm not liking the sound of the shop potentially having jumped the gun on diagnosis but unfortunately I think I'm too late.  I'm due to pickup the bike tomorrow and they're closed today.  I am going to ask if they tried to pressure test and burp the radiator cap/cooling system first and see what kind of answer I get.

 

Tell ya one thing, if shit still isn't fixed after this I'm not gonna be too happy.

 

One more question:  How long does it take to check to see if a valve adjustment is needed?  I asked them to check that as I'm about to hit 26K and they said it was good and to check again at 30K but that didn't make much sense to me. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Oddjob
Added question

[Ride365]

In my experience and feedback from numerous others, most dealership technicians and the managers of such.........are imbeciles.

[dazzler24]

10 hours ago, skipperT said:

Replace the radiator cap before you go any further. Order a Yamaha cap, top up the cooling system, fire the bike up on the side stand, idle 1 minute, shut it off, top off the rad again if it “burbs”, install cap, fire it up again in your driveway and idle untill fan comes on - monitoring the temp. If it rises beyond 220F/110C then you have another issue.

if the cooling system can’t build pressure, it will overheat and boil-over. 
the odds of a water pump drive gear stripping enough to slow the coolant flow, or of debris wearing down the impeller fins - are extremely low. 

The FIRST thing the tech should have done is pressure tested the cap and the cooling system. sounds as if this step was skipped (…)

-Skip

Skip you mention that "if the cooling system can’t build pressure, it will overheat and boil-over." which of course makes sense but that doesn't tie in with the coolant levels being fine as per the shops report back to the OP? i.e. -"...they just called me saying that fluid levels and everything are perfect ...".   Unless it's all going into the reservoir and then being sucked back in when cooled?

It was that statement about the levels being perfect that steered me away from the radiator cap being faulty even though I mentioned it earlier as a possibility.

Happy to be corrected of course.

[GTO MIKE]

For me the first thing to check on an overheating issue is the thermostat to see  if it's opening.  Sounds like this dealer hasn't  a clue . I wouldn't trust them with anything. These bikes are not that hard to work on !       Mike

[skipperT]

4 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

Skip you mention that "if the cooling system can’t build pressure, it will overheat and boil-over." which of course makes sense but that doesn't tie in with the coolant levels being fine as per the shops report back to the OP? i.e. -"...they just called me saying that fluid levels and everything are perfect ...".   Unless it's all going into the reservoir and then being sucked back in when cooled?

It was that statement about the levels being perfect that steered me away from the radiator cap being faulty even though I mentioned it earlier as a possibility.

Happy to be corrected of course.

No you’re right, Daz. It doesn’t make sense to me either. If the fluid levels were really ok then that points to something more irregular going on here. I have seen some weirdness of coolant being forced into the res when it gets too hot and then gets drawn back into the rad when it cools, but not on Yamaha - on another brand. I suppose anything’s possible however. 

 

10 hours ago, Ride365 said:

In my experience and feedback from numerous others, most dealership technicians and the managers of such.........are imbeciles.

Not all of them, finding a good one is what’s difficult. 
 

13 hours ago, Oddjob said:

Yikes, thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm not liking the sound of the shop potentially having jumped the gun on diagnosis but unfortunately I think I'm too late.  I'm due to pickup the bike tomorrow and they're closed today.  I am going to ask if they tried to pressure test and burp the radiator cap/cooling system first and see what kind of answer I get.

 

Tell ya one thing, if shit still isn't fixed after this I'm not gonna be too happy.

 

One more question:  How long does it take to check to see if a valve adjustment is needed?  I asked them to check that as I'm about to hit 26K and they said it was good and to check again at 30K but that didn't make much sense to me. 

I’ll be curious to see if they charged you for and replaced the cap. If not, and it overheats again you have a leg to stand on with the shop. Once the bike is fixed (if they don’t fix it the first time) then you are not responsible for the repairs that DIDNT fix the problem if they mis-diagnosed it. Being calm and not escalating with them over the issue if it comes to that, and speaking with the service manager if you don’t get anywhere with the advisor that youre working with - will go a long way to settling this situation. Not blowing up at them is always the best course of action.

If they refuse to adjust the bill and it’s not fixed the first time, then Obviously this will be a place that doesn’t deserve any more of your money and quite possibly a bad google review. However it’s always best to give them a chance to make it right. 
 

Regarding valve clearances, minimum 1-2 hours to strip the bike, and measure. If you doubt that they did this, politely ask to see the tech’s notes on what the clearances were - if they are not provided and the situation gets uncomfortable, then I would be suspicious that they were even checked. These valve cover gaskets aren’t supposed to have any adhesive in the 1/2 moon area, so you can’t look for the presence of new sealant. You could check for tool marks on the large 14mm Allen wrench cover on the LH side engine case- it might be marked up, signaling that a tool was used to remove it so that the engine could be turned over to line up each cylinder at TDC.

-Skip

[dazzler24]

2 hours ago, skipperT said:

I’ll be curious to see if they charged you for and replaced the cap. If not, and it overheats again you have a leg to stand on with the shop. Once the bike is fixed (if they don’t fix it the first time) then you are not responsible for the repairs that DIDNT fix the problem if they mis-diagnosed it. Being calm and not escalating with them over the issue if it comes to that, and speaking with the service manager if you don’t get anywhere with the advisor that youre working with - will go a long way to settling this situation. Not blowing up at them is always the best course of action.

If they refuse to adjust the bill and it’s not fixed the first time, then Obviously this will be a place that doesn’t deserve any more of your money and quite possibly a bad google review. However it’s always best to give them a chance to make it right. 
 

Regarding valve clearances, minimum 1-2 hours to strip the bike, and measure. If you doubt that they did this, politely ask to see the tech’s notes on what the clearances were - if they are not provided and the situation gets uncomfortable, then I would be suspicious that they were even checked. These valve cover gaskets aren’t supposed to have any adhesive in the 1/2 moon area, so you can’t look for the presence of new sealant. You could check for tool marks on the large 14mm Allen wrench cover on the LH side engine case- it might be marked up, signaling that a tool was used to remove it so that the engine could be turned over to line up each cylinder at TDC.

-Skip

Sage advice as usual. 👍

[Ccewbj]

Hi...I have the same year and a similar thing happened AFTER a coolant fluid change. In the weeks/months (i do not do high mileage) after the change, it began to overheat and occasionally spit coolant out the overflow.  Would check radiator when cold and it was low and did not return to level...overflow reservoir would remain full.

Via feedback here I:

1. Changed rad cap (56$ CAN) - no change;
2. Checked pump, all good;
3. Bought new thermostat (95$ CAN) and tested current one - original worked fine - it would open/close under boiling/cold water.

Bought a head gasket leak detector (chemical) and tested 3 times....all good, no issues.

Was getting ready to take it in and prepare to pay out big time, but...

With the system empty as I checked the thermostat, I put back together, refilled and this time, I leaned the bike over as far as i could on both sides.  Voila!  All air out topped it up and no problems since.

Others here recommended a vacuum system for coolant flush/refill...may have saved me some time... and maybe a few $.

On the first attempt, I followed the procedure in the manual, and I have done this before on other bikes with no issues. Recalling another member's suggestion on here, I gave the tilt method a last hopeful try.  Glad I did.

I hope this can help you...

Edited December 11, 2023 by Ccewbj
word change

[RaYzerman]

Lots of good advice here and yes to the tilt method.  It may have been as simple as air, but easy enough to check thermostat....

I would highly recommend you do not return to this shop for any further service.  Definitely not.