DMan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Got rear ended the other day. Swingarm is badly bent and cracked, among other things. I'm getting reports that quite often, when the swingarm on a bike is damaged in a crash, the bike usually ends up getting totaled by the insurance companies. Evidently, this kind of damage raises concerns about the integrity of the frame due to possible hidden damage. Can anyone confirm or comment on this? I'd like to gather as much info as possible before the damage estimate gets to the insurance company. Also, if the bike ends up getting repaired, in my mind it's value has been diminished even if completely restored. I certainly wouldn't pay full value for a used bike that had suffered major damage in a crash, nor would I ever conceal this to a potential buyer even if cosmetically it looks fine. How much value do you all think a bike loses after a major collision? 20%? 50%.......?? Thanks so much for all your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 First, how are you? You're typing so at least you have finger function... Second, The frame MUST be inspected by somebody qualified if its ever to go back onto the road. You are completely correct in being concerned about serious frame damage. Thus its probably not worth being repaired, but.. Third, Value post serious crash is in the eye of the beholder. If the frame has been evaluated by a trustworthy / competent inspector the value shouldn't suffer too much, maybe 25%. Trackday / race junkies such as myself are very used to bikes being completely trashed and reassembled (with aforementioned inspections of course). Without inspection then price probably drops 50-75% range. Hope that helps! '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Thanks for the nice reply. Girlfriend was on the back and is pretty sore but the helmet saved her head. I was pretty lucky to get off with only a broken rib in my back. Painful, but at least neither of us had any internal injuries. Our riding jackets and gloves really helped too. The car was totaled. I've never had a shop service any of my bikes so I hope I've chosen a good one. The foreman does all the estimates and it sounds like he's very professional so hopefully his experience will be valuable. I'm hoping it will just be totaled so we can start over with a new bike. We were both really enjoying the FJ and only had a week on a new Corbin seat which we loved, so we're anxious to get back in the saddle. Anybody else had damage that might affect the frame or resale value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snocofj Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 A few years ago I was rear ended while stopped at a light on my V-Strom, I did some research on diminished value claims and came up with 20% of the bikes value as a reasonable number. I'm not sure how successful it would have been, I didn't end up pursuing it due to how high the repair cost was for cosmetic damage and not wanting to total the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 That's good info. Thanks. I hope you have no lingering injuries from that incident. Pretty scary getting rear ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snocofj Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I was fortunate, it was very low speed and their were no injuries, I hope yours heal quickly and thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member texscottyd Posted June 15, 2017 Supporting Member Share Posted June 15, 2017 @DMan - Most importantly, I'm glad you and your girlfriend are going to be ok! For it to total the car that hit you, it must have been a heck of an impact. I've bought and sold various wrecked bikes over the years, and what you're describing sounds like major damage. I'm assuming at a minimum you're talking swingarm, wheel, axle, rear subframe, bodywork, taillights, possibly rotor & brake components... that will add up in a hurry, and could easily be enough to total the bike outright. I've seen some extensive damage to frames and engine cases in these types of accidents, as a tremendous amount of force is transmitted along the length of the swingarm, and it tends to bend and damage things at the pivot (where the frame, swingarm, and transmission all come together as a unit). I bought a salvage GSX-R that had been in hit from the rear, and although it didn't visually look as bad as you describe, it developed an oil leak from around the countershaft sprocket that turned out to be a stress-fracture of the engine case itself. Personally, I hope they just offer to total the bike and let you start again. If that's not the case, you have a very defensible position for diminished value impairment, given that you - rightly - would need to disclose to damage to any future buyer. That's always a grey area to try and quantify, but 20% to 25% is probably reasonable. If you're bike is worth $8K original and undamaged, a professionally-repaired post-wreck value might be in the $6K - $6.5K range... and then you've still got to find a buyer that's willing to make that cost/condition trade-off. Oh, and don't forget that you are owed fair replacement value of your riding gear that was damaged... your girlfriend's helmet for sure, and anything else that might have been compromised. I wish you all the best! Keep us posted on how it goes... -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsmith Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 @dman - Most importantly, I'm glad you and your girlfriend are going to be ok! For it to total the car that hit you, it must have been a heck of an impact. I've bought and sold various wrecked bikes over the years, and what you're describing sounds like major damage. I'm assuming at a minimum you're talking swingarm, wheel, axle, rear subframe, bodywork, taillights, possibly rotor & brake components... that will add up in a hurry, and could easily be enough to total the bike outright. I've seen some extensive damage to frames and engine cases in these types of accidents, as a tremendous amount of force is transmitted along the length of the swingarm, and it tends to bend and damage things at the pivot (where the frame, swingarm, and transmission all come together as a unit). I bought a salvage GSX-R that had been in hit from the rear, and although it didn't visually look as bad as you describe, it developed an oil leak from around the countershaft sprocket that turned out to be a stress-fracture of the engine case itself. Personally, I hope they just offer to total the bike and let you start again. If that's not the case, you have a very defensible position for diminished value impairment, given that you - rightly - would need to disclose to damage to any future buyer. That's always a grey area to try and quantify, but 20% to 25% is probably reasonable. If you're bike is worth $8K original and undamaged, a professionally-repaired post-wreck value might be in the $6K - $6.5K range... and then you've still got to find a buyer that's willing to make that cost/condition trade-off. Oh, and don't forget that you are owed fair replacement value of your riding gear that was damaged... your girlfriend's helmet for sure, and anything else that might have been compromised. I wish you all the best! Keep us posted on how it goes... -Scott I'm deeply sympathetic to the original poster, and thankful, like you all, that he and his girl-friend are OK. But I gotta say that from a purely personal perspective, I'd never buy a bike that had been so badly damaged, no matter what the 'discount' and irrespective of who signed-it off as being good-as-new. So I too hope that it can be sorted-out otherwise. Riding a fully-farkled 2019 MT-09 Tracer 900 GT from my bayside home in South East Queensland, Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member texscottyd Posted June 15, 2017 Supporting Member Share Posted June 15, 2017 @wordsmith - I totally get that, and I largely feel the same way... hence my comment about "having to find a buyer that's willing to make that cost/condition trade-off" as a part of the deal. Personally, I wouldn't. That said, most of my race bikes have been heavily-discounted crash damaged machines, several with salvage titles. I'd never do that on one of my personal street bikes, however, since I'm really meticulous about them... different purposes, different attitude. I've been able to sell a bunch of nicely-reconditioned sport bikes over the years (GSX-R, R1/R6, etc). Typically I'll get 70- 75% of what I would expect for perfect full retail, while the same bike with a salvage/reconditioned title might bring 50% max. The demographic buying an FJ is different, however, so hard to really know what market would look like. A nice crisp check to buy a shiny new bike is probably the best outcome here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I agree with guys who would not buy a bike damaged to this extent, knowing full well low budget racers do all the time. Last time my car was hit from behind causing $10,000 in damage, there was no way to collect on "diminished value." Carfax and other history checking services pretty much make it impossible to hide crash damage if you report it to police, insurance companies, repair shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member DavidS Posted June 16, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted June 16, 2017 .............. Carfax and other history checking services pretty much make it impossible to hide crash damage if you report it to police, insurance companies, repair shops.And not being able to hide it is a good thing. I sure wouldn't want to pay for a bike that has been damaged, and not even know what risk I was taking. (not saying anyone here would do that......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo1000 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Got rear ended the other day. Swingarm is badly bent and cracked, among other things. I'm getting reports that quite often, when the swingarm on a bike is damaged in a crash, the bike usually ends up getting totaled by the insurance companies. Evidently, this kind of damage raises concerns about the integrity of the frame due to possible hidden damage. Can anyone confirm or comment on this? I'd like to gather as much info as possible before the damage estimate gets to the insurance company. Also, if the bike ends up getting repaired, in my mind it's value has been diminished even if completely restored. I certainly wouldn't pay full value for a used bike that had suffered major damage in a crash, nor would I ever conceal this to a potential buyer even if cosmetically it looks fine. How much value do you all think a bike loses after a major collision? 20%? 50%.......?? Thanks so much for all your input. I totaled my first FJ I owned it for one season (10,0000 miles) I got every penny of what I paid except the $500 deductible. They didn't know for some reason how many miles I had on it. I have State farm , I think the amount of value you lose depends on your insurance company.... Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 These are all excellent replies. Thank you all. I've been away for a few days but just got word from the shop that the insurance company (State Farm) wants to proceed with the repair and is sending me a check. The insurance company has left me no messages or emails on the matter. One would think that they would reach out to me first. I'll be dealing with them first thing today, and your replies will help me with the battle. The police report will also help. It shows an impact to the bike on the order of 35-40 mph. I believe the shop has placed their $$ over my a$$. If they exclude the frame from the estimate, the bike doesn't get totalled and they get a nice hefty check for the full repair. BTW, the estimate came in at just over $5,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Did the shop explicitly not consider frame evaluations? $5k may include frame evaluations. It would be really shitty if they are that greedy. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo1000 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Well if the frame is NOT bent I guess they could rebuild your bike good as new..I hope your shop wouldn't try to fix a bike with a bent frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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