Can you hear me now?

[nicksta43]

Okay I've got a situation that I'm trying to make sense of.
 
I always wear plugs usually the foam ones. I've been trying to get my windscreen tuned in and have found a pretty good placement with very little buffeting and low noise.
 
However I was still getting some very loud low frequency drumming/droning noise that I couldn't get rid of no matter how I positioned the screen. It is annoyingly loud as in it takes a lot of the fun out of riding.
 
I rode to work the other day without earplugs for the first time in years and it was a revelation. It was nearly silent. I could hear the engine noise was a little louder than it normally is but I could also hear things I've never heard before. Like the chain and the tires on the road. I can also hear traffic around me so much better. I can hear cars in my blind spot which I could never hear with plugs in unless it was a semi truck beside me.
 
Plus that loud low frequency drumming is completely gone. The little wind noise I am getting, mainly from cross winds, seems to be much quieter than with the plugs in.
 
I was thinking that maybe it was just my perception that it was quieter without the earplugs. So over the last couple of days I've done the commute with and without earplugs and have reached the conclusion that it is definitely quieter, much quieter without the earplugs in.
 
So my question is why?
 
My theory is I've recently purchased a new helmet that actually fits me correctly. All of my old helmets were too big. So with the earplugs in and a good fitting helmet I'm actually getting a bone conduction induced occlusion effect.
 
I'm going to try some different earplugs to see if it's just the type I'm wearing that's causing it.
 
Anyone have any input or suggestions?

[phpaul]

I'm actually getting a bone conduction induced occlusion effect.

 
I'm a complete amateur and my only knowledge of the mechanics of hearing comes from having a pair of ears, but bone conduction was my first thought upon reading your post.
 
As my hearing loss gets progressively worse, I notice bone-conducted noise more and more.
 
 

[koth442]

I'm willing to bet the resonant frequency of your old ear plugs was that drumming.

[Panther6834]

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would wear earplugs while riding...been riding 34 years, and I've always GREATLY enjoyed the sounds of the engine, road, wind (as long as it's not LOUD wind), etc.
 
Besides (and, more importantly),as you pointed out yourself, you can finally hear the sounds of other vehicles, which is something EVERY rider NEEDS to be able to hear. When riding a bike...be it motorcycle, or bicycle...your ears are your second-greatest asset, right after your riding skills. I can't tell you how many times I've avoided getting hit, purely because I heard something that, had I not heard of, I might not be here now. While some of those occurrences might have been my fault, even more of them were the results of other driver's impatience, drivers attempting to cut me off, and so forth.

[peripateticmike]

I don't know, I'm always listening to music through my sena, so the only things I hear are what is louder than my metal!! 

[proast]

Okay I've got a situation that I'm trying to make sense of.  
I always wear plugs usually the foam ones. I've been trying to get my windscreen tuned in and have found a pretty good placement with very little buffeting and low noise.
 
However I was still getting some very loud low frequency drumming/droning noise that I couldn't get rid of no matter how I positioned the screen. It is annoyingly loud as in it takes a lot of the fun out of riding.
 
I rode to work the other day without earplugs for the first time in years and it was a revelation. It was nearly silent. I could hear the engine noise was a little louder than it normally is but I could also hear things I've never heard before. Like the chain and the tires on the road. I can also hear traffic around me so much better. I can hear cars in my blind spot which I could never hear with plugs in unless it was a semi truck beside me.
 
Plus that loud low frequency drumming is completely gone. The little wind noise I am getting, mainly from cross winds, seems to be much quieter than with the plugs in.
 
I was thinking that maybe it was just my perception that it was quieter without the earplugs. So over the last couple of days I've done the commute with and without earplugs and have reached the conclusion that it is definitely quieter, much quieter without the earplugs in.
 
So my question is why?
 
My theory is I've recently purchased a new helmet that actually fits me correctly. All of my old helmets were too big. So with the earplugs in and a good fitting helmet I'm actually getting a bone conduction induced occlusion effect.
 
I'm going to try some different earplugs to see if it's just the type I'm wearing that's causing it.
 
Anyone have any input or suggestions?

 
I’ve been using Alpine Motosafe Tour version earplugs and find them great. I commute an hour each way morning and night from a crawl to highway speed. I had been struggling with hearing recovering once I got to work and these make it a lot better.
 
Silence is not golden. To Panther’s point you still need to hear what you need to hear to stay safe. These just cut down the ‘white noise’ from the wind but importantly still allow the sounds of what you need to hear.... due to the characteristics of the frequencies of different sounds.

[dbeau]

I've only recently started wearing ear plugs because on my highway commute (20 miles @ 80mph) I get some serious low frequency droning wind noise that kinda hurts my ears.

[nicksta43]

In doing research this week I found several articles on the occlusion effect, which is a common issue with hearing aid users. The sound can be 20dB or more louder at the ear drum with the ear canal blocked than without.
 
So let's say the sound of wind hitting my helmet is 85dB. Without earplugs I'm not able to pick that particular frequency out due to all of the other noise I'm hearing is at or above that dB level. However with the plugs in and the ear canal blocked let's say my earplugs are knocking all the other sound down 33dB which is their rating. So all the other sound is now 52dB at my eardrum. The helmet now is transmitting that wind blast to the bones in my skull and due to the occlusion effect I'm hearing that particular frequency now at 105dB, which is loud on its own but stands out even more because it's 53dB louder than all the other noise.
 
That seems to be exactly what I'm experiencing.
 
I've picked up a set of Mack's Hear Plugs High Fidelity Earplugs on the way home from work today. They only have an NRR of 12 dB but have an open air filter so I should be able to determine if my theory holds true.

[nicksta43]

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would wear earplugs while riding...been riding 34 years, and I've always GREATLY enjoyed the sounds of the engine, road, wind (as long as it's not LOUD wind), etc. 
Besides (and, more importantly),as you pointed out yourself, you can finally hear the sounds of other vehicles, which is something EVERY rider NEEDS to be able to hear. When riding a bike...be it motorcycle, or bicycle...your ears are your second-greatest asset, right after your riding skills. I can't tell you how many times I've avoided getting hit, purely because I heard something that, had I not heard of, I might not be here now. While some of those occurrences might have been my fault, even more of them were the results of other driver's impatience, drivers attempting to cut me off, and so forth.

 
 
Prior to getting this big Givi barn door screen and my new helmet I couldn't hear a thing besides overwhelming wind noise above 40mph. No engine noise, not even on my Harley. No sounds of other road traffic at all. No music from my Bluetooth at Max volume above 50mph or so. Just overwhelming deafening wind noise.
 
With the earplugs I could hear music all the way up to my 80mph cruising speed. I could hear traffic a little bit. And on the FJ I could hear the engine up to about 50mph.
 
 

[micah2074]

I do a lot of long days. 15+ hours. Ear plugs are a must for me. If I don’t wear them voices sound like I’m talking to a transformer after a big day in the saddle.

[hscooter52]

I never used ear plugs until I read some posts on here about using them. I've tried different kinds and it's seems louder with them in and end up with my ears hurting and a headache. I do get some wind buffeting noise but nothing I feel is too loud and do listen to music often with my Sena.

[dedsxy47]

Hello,
 
Your posting really got me thinking and I have spent the last several hours researching ear plugs, air conduction, bone conduction, head and body conduction, attenuation, and occlusion; quite fascinating actually.  I spent 11 years in the Airforce listening to aircraft, ground equipment, and all the tooling and equipment of our sheet metal shop.  From the moment I hit the floor, earplugs went in and did not come out until lunch or when it was time to go home.  I also rode a motorcycle way back then and initially did not wear earplugs, but found my rides more enjoyable with them in and I have not looked back since (30 yrs).  There are several valid studies reporting the harmful effects of prolonged exposure to noise pollution.  Most motorcyclists are enjoying the ride so much the probably are not aware of the potential damage they could be doing to their bodies thereby decreasing riding longevity and increased morbidity.  What sparked my interest in your post was the 105dB comment.  After some digging, I found several articles supporting this discussion and offer them up for review.
 
This first one clarifies how the ear works and how sound affects the body.  In the middle of this article, there is an interesting note about Pro 27 custom hearing protection with a graph.  These are custom filtered hearing protection devices.

 
Looks to me like one who properly installs high-quality earplugs and wears a full face helmet will be afforded the best protection, but to each his own.
 
The bottom line seems to be summed up best by an excerpt from a Guns and Ammo article by Horman 2013 stating "if guns make 140 dB of noise, how is a 30 dB plug going to help? First, the noise tends to travel forward of the muzzle, so the shooter’s ears are not always hit by as much noise as the gun produces. This does not mean the level of sound is safe—only reduced. Second, the purpose of hearing protection devices is not to eliminate sound, but to reduce the impact to a level that does not cause lasting damage. In short, a plethora of scientific studies conducted over many years show hearing protection works, and it works at the sound-muffling levels common devices provide."   Convert this into motorcycle terms say 100-120dB of noise and you still get a significant reduction and protection from hearing loss.  
 
 
Full articles
 
 
 
Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun-culture/the-science-of-hearing-protection/#ixzz5NB1wtlx4
 
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?rep=rep1&type=pdf&doi=10.1.1.214.6433
 
https://solentacoustics.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/a-guide-to-hearing-protection/
 
 
 
 
 
 

[captainscarlet]

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would wear earplugs while riding...been riding 34 years, and I've always GREATLY enjoyed the sounds of the engine, road, wind (as long as it's not LOUD wind), etc.

Honestly I can’t understand why anyone would NOT wear earplugs whilst riding.  If you don’t wear earplugs you are doing permanent damage to your hearing.  This is not my opinion it is a statement of fact.  Earplugs do not prevent you hearing things you need to hear, they reduce the dangerous noise to a safe level. 
I find that if I perform a short journey without plugs it is in fact very distracting as there is so much racket.  With plugs in things calm down and I can focus on my riding and the things I need to hear.  Other vehicles, car horns, sirens etc. can all still be heard.
 
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/avoiding-hearing-loss
 
If you want to keep your hearing intact, plugs in!
 
CS

[koth442]

I didn't wear ear plugs for a while. But I'm only 26 and my hearing is terrible. I mean terrible. Worse than my 40+ y/o boss who spent his teenage and early twenties working in a high pressure die cast facility. I now wear ear plugs.
 
@dedsxy47 thanks for the write up and documenting your sources. I enjoyed that.
 

[nicksta43]

@dedsxy47 Than you for all of that information. It took a while for my tired brain to understand most of that this morning but I'm there now.
 
I have seen numbers for the occlusion effect being higher than 10dB but even at that number it's significant.
 
I still believe that is what I'm experiencing.
 
Hopefully today I can get out and test some different plugs after I finish my chores.