Rotella 15w40

[CJ3cyl]

To be fair, other than not using oil with the "energy conserving" label and being within recommended viscosity parameters, I've never had an oil problem be it car oil, bike oil, dino or synthetic. Over many years with many bikes and many miles. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by CJ3cyl

[Wintersdark]

22 hours ago, Zach26 said:

Would they really even have a leg to stand on to deny a warranty claim when the oil carries the jaso-ma rating? I wouldn't think so. 

No idea.  However, the manual does specifically say which rating of oil to run, and while JASO-MA is required, as is API service type SG.  Diesel engine oils are rated differently and do not meet that as they have their own, different rating system.  

So, a leg to stand on?  Yes.  Would they?  Honestly, I have absolutely no idea.  However, I struggled a LOT with a warranty replacement on the headlight shroud on my old MT07 (Yamaha: "You're storing it wrong!" Me: "What?  It's in a roofed carpark under a cover; here's photos!")  On the other hand, being able to provide receipts from the (surprisingly) comparably priced bike specific Yamalube oil change kits ensures it won't be an issue.  I don't recommend others do this - it's probably extremely unnecessary - but given it doesn't cost me any more and it potentially avoids a problem, it seems a good idea to me.

 

But yeah, key point is here: 

[Wintersdark]

8 hours ago, CJ3cyl said:

To be fair, other than not using oil with the "energy conserving" label and being within recommended viscosity parameters, I've never had an oil problem be it car oil, bike oil, dino or synthetic. Over many years with many bikes and many miles. 

For sure, I'm in no way saying it would be a problem to run.  People like to argue about oil, but it's stupid.  Use the right grade/viscosity/etc, change it when you should, and it *will not* be a problem.  Basically everything is fine, if it meets the needed specs.

[betoney]

8 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

No idea.  However, the manual does specifically say which rating of oil to run, and while JASO-MA is required, as is API service type SG.  Diesel engine oils are rated differently and do not meet that as they have their own, different rating system.  

So, a leg to stand on?  Yes.  Would they?  Honestly, I have absolutely no idea.  However, I struggled a LOT with a warranty replacement on the headlight shroud on my old MT07 (Yamaha: "You're storing it wrong!" Me: "What?  It's in a roofed carpark under a cover; here's photos!")  On the other hand, being able to provide receipts from the (surprisingly) comparably priced bike specific Yamalube oil change kits ensures it won't be an issue.  I don't recommend others do this - it's probably extremely unnecessary - but given it doesn't cost me any more and it potentially avoids a problem, it seems a good idea to me.

 

But yeah, key point is here: 

To deny warranty coverage they would have to prove that the oil specifically contributed to the failure.  If the oil meets or exceeds the JASO-MA and API SG standard then it is rated for motorcycle use.

[Wintersdark]

4 hours ago, betoney said:

To deny warranty coverage they would have to prove that the oil specifically contributed to the failure.  If the oil meets or exceeds the JASO-MA and API SG standard then it is rated for motorcycle use.

Well, that's the problem, right?  Rotella does not meet/exceed API SG.  

 

It's just been my experience that they try really hard to avoid paying warranty repairs, and what they "have to prove" doesn't really matter in practice because once you start looking at a lawsuit it's going to cost you more than simply fixing the problem in the first place.  

But, again, I don't think that's a likely outcome.  I'm not arguing people shouldn't use Rotella (it's a great oil, and cheap!)  And even in the case of a warranty claim for engine failure, you'd likely just lie about what was in there anyways - it'd be basically impossible to prove and not worth the effort to investigate that thoroughly.  Still, given I can put exactly the recommended stuff in at the same price, *shrugs* I'd rather avoid the fight in the first place if I can while it's under warranty.  Too many bad experiences. 

[betoney]

30 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

It's just been my experience that they try really hard to avoid paying warranty repairs, and what they "have to prove" doesn't really matter in practice because once you start looking at a lawsuit it's going to cost you more than simply fixing the problem in the first place.

I'm sure there will always be service managers who will fight tooth and nail to avoid submitting a warranty claim and that's unfortunate, my experience has been the exact opposite.

I have the 5 year Y.E.S. warranty and my bike has had 4 warranty repairs, all at the service managers insistence.  Front brake calipers, 12v accessory power socket, clutch basket and ABS pump.

They are fully aware that my bike is far from stock and that I have done most of the work myself, including having the ECU flashed.  Anytime a part has failed it has always been them suggesting "Why don't I write up a warranty claim and get it replaced for you".

[Zach26]

10 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Well, that's the problem, right?  Rotella does not meet/exceed API SG.  

 

It's just been my experience that they try really hard to avoid paying warranty repairs, and what they "have to prove" doesn't really matter in practice because once you start looking at a lawsuit it's going to cost you more than simply fixing the problem in the first place.  

But, again, I don't think that's a likely outcome.  I'm not arguing people shouldn't use Rotella (it's a great oil, and cheap!)  And even in the case of a warranty claim for engine failure, you'd likely just lie about what was in there anyways - it'd be basically impossible to prove and not worth the effort to investigate that thoroughly.  Still, given I can put exactly the recommended stuff in at the same price, *shrugs* I'd rather avoid the fight in the first place if I can while it's under warranty.  Too many bad experiences. 

Yeah I didn't think about diesel oil having different ratings. I guess I just assumed that since it has the jaso rating and so many use it in their bikes it must have the correct rating. 

[Wintersdark]

10 hours ago, betoney said:

They are fully aware that my bike is far from stock and that I have done most of the work myself, including having the ECU flashed.  Anytime a part has failed it has always been them suggesting "Why don't I write up a warranty claim and get it replaced for you".

Man, I wish it worked that way for me.  The service guys seem fine with submitting the warranty claim, but it's the pushback that comes later when the manufacturer doesn't want to cover it (and the work has already been done, so I'm on the hook for the expense if the claim is denied)  Or at least, that's what I get told.  *shrugs*  I have no idea what's going on in the background.  Then, add all the car warranty issues people talk about, I'm (admittedly, unreasonably) nervous about warranty issues.  I wouldn't even have the 5-year on this bike if I didn't get it bundled free into the deal on it.  

[betoney]

2 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

Man, I wish it worked that way for me.  The service guys seem fine with submitting the warranty claim, but it's the pushback that comes later when the manufacturer doesn't want to cover it (and the work has already been done, so I'm on the hook for the expense if the claim is denied)  Or at least, that's what I get told.  *shrugs*  I have no idea what's going on in the background.  Then, add all the car warranty issues people talk about, I'm (admittedly, unreasonably) nervous about warranty issues.  I wouldn't even have the 5-year on this bike if I didn't get it bundled free into the deal on it.  

I am fortunate to have a GREAT local dealer, I have been a customer for over 15 years. 

Concerning the Y.E.S. warranty, were you aware that you can sell it back if you don't want it?  When I got mine, that was one point they emphasized a few times that if I decided I didn't want the remainder of the warranty then I could cancel anytime and get a pro-rated refund for the remainder of the term that I didn't use.

[CJ3cyl]

My owner's manual specifically states, "Do not use a diesel specification of "CD" or oils of a higher quality than specified."

In my book, that tells me T6 15W40 is good to go. Who cares if its SG rated or not.  It's JASO MA, MA2 rated. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by CJ3cyl

[Wintersdark]

11 minutes ago, betoney said:

Concerning the Y.E.S. warranty, were you aware that you can sell it back if you don't want it?  When I got mine, that was one point they emphasized a few times that if I decided I didn't want the remainder of the warranty then I could cancel anytime and get a pro-rated refund for the remainder of the term that I didn't use.

I was not aware of that.  I'll keep that in mind, if I decide to start doing major changes.  So long as I'm leaving the bike primarily stock it's fine, though.  On the other hand, it'd be a big chunk of cash back, that I could just throw back into new springs 😃

[betoney]

Just now, Wintersdark said:

I was not aware of that.  I'll keep that in mind, if I decide to start doing major changes.  So long as I'm leaving the bike primarily stock it's fine, though.  On the other hand, it'd be a big chunk of cash back, that I could just throw back into new springs 😃

At least ask your local dealer to see if it is an option.  There might be some differences in Canada?

[2and3cylinders]

My 4-year yes is up in July of course I checked valves recently because that was my biggest concern but I signed on when I first bought it to the Yamaha extended 100,000 oil warranty which was impossible to upload maintenance to so I gave up.

This is the first time I've had an extended warranty on a motorcycle and of course I probably won't need it until it expires...

 

[Zach26]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

My 4-year yes is up in July of course I checked valves recently because that was my biggest concern but I signed on when I first bought it to the Yamaha extended 100,000 oil warranty which was impossible to upload maintenance to so I gave up.

This is the first time I've had an extended warranty on a motorcycle and of course I probably won't need it until it expires...

 

That's usually how that goes. I just try to buy vehicles that are known to be reliable and just skip the extended warranty. That's why I own a Toyota Tacoma (2nd gen. Since the 3rd gen. Isn't as proven). I'm confident that it won't have any major problems any time soon. And that's why I went with Yamaha for my second bike. 

[DavidS]

Has anyone ever had a catastrophic failure with their FJ09/Tracer? I can't remember hearing of anyone having significant maintenance issues with this bike. Not only is this engine a ton of fun, but in my experience, it is rock solid dependable. 

Anyone have a different experience?