Can’t find neutral

[Tripletrouble]

Well, I know where it should be. Fine at cold, but when hot and in first or second It just won’t find neutral, ever, unless the bikes rolling fast.( Shifting in general feels very stiff at low revs, but effortless above 5000) I’ve put up with the neutral problem , but today at rail crossing I hit the kill switch, and it just snicked straight in to neutral no problem. It didn’t when engine was running. I’ve done this a few times today and have the same result. I realise finding neutral can be a bit mmm on a lot of bikes, but it’s just not happening on this bike. It’s a 2017 Slipper clutch with the later cable design. I’ve adjusted free play both ways, I’ve also rolled bike forward from standstill. No dice.  Any ideas ? 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Tripletrouble

[taylormade21]

Have you tried adjusting the clutch cable on the right side located down by the motor? This along with the clutch perch adjustment should work.

Edited June 23, 2020 by taylormade21

[2and3cylinders]

Trying reducing free play to the absolute minimum up at the lever, maybe only 5 mm or less, or however tight so the clutch does not disengage when the bars go lock to lock.

[Tripletrouble]

3 hours ago, taylormade21 said:

Have you tried adjusting the clutch cable on the right side located down by the motor? This along with the clutch perch adjustment should work.

No, but I did check the pip does line up on the actuator. What difference does it make to adjust cable at bottom as opposed to top ? I’m not familiar with perch adjustment, could you explain ? 

[taylormade21]

The adjuster knob on the bars (for the most part) really only adjusts the lever tension/distance and degree of pull/travel (based upon the setting of the adjustment screw on the right side near the motor.

The adjustment screw on the right side near the motor really makes the biggest impact of the tension pulling from the clutch plates. (regardless of clutch lever adjustment, the adjuster screw at the motor tightens/loosens tension on cable from motr side = too long of cable, can't disengage clutch plates fully, too short of cable, clutch might not fully engage clutch plates in proper gear).

(at least this is how it what described to me)

[2and3cylinders]

Think of the lower adjuster as rough adjustment, and upper finer / convenient adjustment.  Read the manual...

[Dodgy Knees]

I've had this issue on bikes with hydraulic, not cable clutch.  

Hope you get it sorted.

[Tripletrouble]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Think of the lower adjuster as rough adjustment, and upper finer / convenient adjustment.  Read the manual...

I know how to adjust a cable without reading a manual, having rebuilt more than 4 bike engines in the last 4 years, and currently own six bikes that I service myself, but thanks..... The question wasn’t how to adjust a cable, it was why can’t find neutral. However, as mentioned in my first post, I have adjusted the cable, so it’s not that, but it does seem like clutch drag. Think I’ll pull the clutch, it might have notches in the plates causing it to bind. My Harley found neutral easier than this, and that had all the refinement of an old London bus. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Tripletrouble

[Tripletrouble]

47 minutes ago, Dodgy Knees said:

I've had this issue on bikes with hydraulic, not cable clutch.  

Hope you get it sorted.

Cheers. Yes, I had a hydraulic clutch on my Mille R. It needed to be bled more than I would do normally, that kept it in check. The clutch on the Tracer is so light though, marvellous in that respect. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Tripletrouble

[2and3cylinders]

I was not questioning your knowledge or abilities, just saying what works for me.  You say its a 17 slip(-assist) but not if the bike is a 17, or how many miles are on it.  As I installed a 16 XSR900 clutch in my 15.  Plate thickness is critical, maybe yours wore enough to cause this issue even though that's counterintuitive. 

GL

[trevinator]

15 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I was not questioning your knowledge or abilities, just saying what works for me.  You say its a 17 slip(-assist) but not if the bike is a 17, or how many miles are on it.  As I installed a 16 XSR900 clutch in my 15.  Plate thickness is critical, maybe yours wore enough to cause this issue even though that's counterintuitive. 

GL

2017 is when they added the slip/assist clutch on the fj-09. the xsr always had it. this sounds like the clutch is not disengaging completely. i would definitely take a look at the clutch to see whats happening.

[betoney]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I was not questioning your knowledge or abilities, just saying what works for me.  You say its a 17 slip(-assist) but not if the bike is a 17, or how many miles are on it.  As I installed a 16 XSR900 clutch in my 15.  Plate thickness is critical, maybe yours wore enough to cause this issue even though that's counterintuitive. 

GL

@Tripletrouble - what @2and3cylinders mentioned is correct, the slipper clutch combined 'clutch pack' has a required overall thickness that can be adjusted with an optional plate available in I believe, 3 different thicknesses.

[2and3cylinders]

Thanks B Toe Knee!

[Tripletrouble]

13 hours ago, betoney said:

@Tripletrouble clutch pack has a required overall thickness that can be adjusted with an optional plate available in I believe, 3 different thicknesses.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Very informative. Are we talking a Yamaha part, I can’t find any reference ? I’ll be ripping clutch apart in a few days to measure specs and check for any notches. Never had a bike to be overly critical causing this problem, I normally measure just to prevent plates getting too thin and breaking up or slipping. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Tripletrouble

[2and3cylinders]

The different thickness plates aren't expensive, and I'd have them at hand before you start and a good digital veneer caliper.  Soak the new plates in oil and damp then off before measuring.  I find Partshark has good prices.  They're where I bought my XSR900 clutch as a packaged kit but also got the other 2 thickness plates though I didn't need them (yet).  There's a thread here on the conversion and process which would be helpful to you.  I'm still not sure what your clutch issue may be but you need to be nicer to those trying to help you...