NT100 Europe Article on ADVRider

[betoney]

29 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

Eeeeeeh, comparable power to the Tracer, 80+lbs more weight?  

I can get past some extra weight, but only with a power increase as well.  Running that giant twin and 547lbs to get 100hp... I dunno about that.

I think looking only at 'peak' horsepower is kind of misleading when considering overall power output (its great for bragging rights with your buddies though), the NT is claimed to have 77lb/ft torque (25% more), delivered 700 rpm earlier than the Tracer 9. 

'Most' riders of either bike will seldom, if ever, reach red line so peak horsepower is kind of irrelevant on a touring or sport touring bike.  A flat healthy torque curve is apparent as soon as you let out the clutch. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/2021-yamaha-tracer-9-gt-dyno-test/

[Wintersdark]

1 hour ago, betoney said:

I think looking only at 'peak' horsepower is kind of misleading when considering overall power output (its great for bragging rights with your buddies though), the NT is claimed to have 77lb/ft torque (25% more), delivered 700 rpm earlier than the Tracer 9. 

'Most' riders of either bike will seldom, if ever, reach red line so peak horsepower is kind of irrelevant on a touring or sport touring bike.  A flat healthy torque curve is apparent as soon as you let out the clutch. 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/2021-yamaha-tracer-9-gt-dyno-test/

I mean, that's pretty fair, but personally I absolutely have my bikes at peak power basically every single time I ride them.  I was in no way saying it's a bad bike, just that it doesn't really appeal to me at all.  To me, taking the Tracer and slapping on more weight is not a good direction to go.  

It also looks bulkier.  Maybe that's just the photos, but more plastics and a bigger front end are big no's in my book. Much like while I can appreciate the FJR is a good bike, I'd *never* consider owning one and actively dislike it personally.  Honestly, though, the silver is probably hurting it a lot for me - just makes the bike look extra bland, and I've always felt that's kind of a problem Honda runs into a lot.  

I mean, if it where between this, the Tracer 9GT, and the Suzi GSXS1000GT, I think the Suzi kind of dominates here.  At least from my perspective.

[micah2074]

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

 

I mean, if it where between this, the Tracer 9GT, and the Suzi GSXS1000GT, I think the Suzi kind of dominates here.  At least from my perspective.

Especially in the BANG for the buck department. 

 

[Wintersdark]

3 hours ago, micah2074 said:

Especially in the BANG for the buck department. 

 

Yeah, I've only seen estimated pricing, but it looks to be noticeably cheaper than both the Tracer 9 and the NT1100, with some 50% more power.  Looks exciting, has all the normal touring features.  Dollar for dollar, it's a heck of a lot of bike.  Even if they end up priced the same as the NT1000 and T9 (estimates are a couple grand lower too), it's a really compelling offering. 

 

[piotrek]

I cobbled together a basic spec comparo going back to the gold standard 😁. Canadian MSRP for the Suzuki is now available, at CAD $15K w/o bags. This bike will give the T9 a run for its money here... although it may fall into a higher insurance bracket. I will have to swing a leg over each of these and have a ride before passing judgment. I sat on the T9 and it felt pretty good with the wider seat nose/tank area.

Weight in brackets is w/o bags. I added 28 lbs for bags where info wasn't available. Pricing is MSRP as shown on manufacturer's website. Range is a wag. My bike reads 5.2L/100km (45MPG). There may be errors on there... 😬

Edited October 31, 2021 by piotrek

[Wintersdark]

Parenthesis weights are without the optional bags?  

This is, interestingly, doing a good job of highlighting what I feel is the biggest drawback of the third gen Tracer.  There's weaknesses in the Tracer for sure, but with the FJ09 and Tracer 900, those where quite well offset by the bike being such a good value.  As the price increases, some of those problems become harder to really swallow, and more comparisons with higher end sport touring/road-adv machines need to be made.  I feel Suzuki is doing a really good job pricing the S1000GT really competitively, to grab that portion of the market.  

I'm decidedly not a Suzuki fan.  They're the only big-four manufacturer I've never owned a bike from, and I've never been particularly fond of friends' Suzies.  But that S1000GT is a very competitive looking machine.  

And given it's price point, it's honestly baffling the NT1100 has a non-adjustable suspension.  That's a really strange choice for Honda.

[piotrek]

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Parenthesis weights are without the optional bags?

Yes. The difference between the standard Tracer 900 (no bags) and Tracer 900 GT is 28 lbs. I corrected the table with this delta. The 35 lbs was incorrect.

[piotrek]

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

There's weaknesses in the Tracer for sure, but with the FJ09 and Tracer 900, those where quite well offset by the bike being such a good value.

The value of the initial purchase was insane (under $10K). Now that I have "invested" into a bunch of upgrades, the bike fits me very well, and I would have a very hard time justifying ditching it for another machine at this time. Another machine that would likely still require upgrades.

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

I feel Suzuki is doing a really good job pricing the S1000GT really competitively, to grab that portion of the market.

I am very surprised at the posted MSRP. They are looking to dump on Yamaha's parade with this price. Add another grand and change for for the bags and heated grips and it will be right there with the T9. I think the semi-active suspension will set the 9T apart from the Suzuki.

Edited October 31, 2021 by piotrek

[PhotoAl]

Don’t see any mention of an IMU on the NT1100.  Most riding even when I’m on a long trip I don’t hit the redline but … when having a bit of fun or passing on a two lane road out west the redline is certainly run to or close to.  Have ridden thru several mountain passes at higher elevations.   Passing the slow vehicles with reduced power means digging down into the higher RPM ranges.  Particularly when the passing opportunities are shorter.  I’ve ridden thru the same areas on both my F800GT and the Trace 900 GT and the difference in power is quite apparent.  IMO the Suzuki would have an abundance of power where a fully loaded NT1100 would struggle relative to the Tracer and the Suzuki.  IMO the Tracer hits a sweet spot.  Enough power to get the job done nicely while the Suzuki and Kawasaki have more than enough and the NT1100 lags.  

My BMW F800GT was about the same weight and only had 90HP I still got where I wanted to and had a great time touring on it.  So HP is not everything and may not make much difference in point to point times but does make a difference in the experience.  I’m a sport bike guy at heart and still love to roll on the throttle leaned over coming out of a corner and go up thru a gear or two before on the brakes for the next.

[TomTracer]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:15 PM, Wintersdark said:

Eeeeeeh, comparable power to the Tracer, 80+lbs more weight?  

Definitely not for me.  It looks ok, but kind of bland, much like a Tracer with all the extra fun removed.  I can get past some extra weight, but only with a power increase as well.  Running that giant twin and 547lbs to get 100hp... I dunno about that.  

It's not bad at all, but it's really not presenting anything particularly inspiring either.  I'm really not a fan of the Big Sport Touring Bike aesthetic though, where it's all enclosed plastics molded like a hilariously oversized sportbike.  Personal preference though; it's definitely not a bike I'd buy. 

I agree. BUT, with all that's out there and fairly affordable, what would it take to inspire us? I'm guessing no matter what we would always criticize. Me included. 

[PhotoAl]

Agree with @TomTracer.  It’s a nice bike and will appeal to folks who like a nice “midsized” touring bike that can go 2 up and is stable and handles well.  Not monster power but adequate and gets the job done.   I think most folks here like the little bit of hooligan nature of the Tracer - more so in the FJ09.

[piotrek]

I think the NT would be a good alternative to the big Wing... or a step up/down. Comfort with good ergonomics, low noise levels and good wind protection would probably be seen as important to a prospective buyer. It has some grunt, for what it needs to do. Unlike Yamaha, or the Suzuki... Honda isn't shy showing their machine fitted with both the side cases and the top case... and the pillion. The bike is meant for touring. The CP3 machines are okay for touring... but they make for a busy ride. Doable... but not optimal. The NT will probably be more so... although no adjustable suspension is indeed puzzling.

Interesting entry.

[2and3cylinders]

Coming from sport bikes modified into sport tourers, I moded my FJ to be more comfortable and safer but added performance.

Heading home yesterday after already covering 200 miles in my pretty shaggy physical condition, I recall thinking how serene, quiet, smooth and comfortable it was at 80 mph in 48F, and how effortless it was at a quick twist of the wrist to pass slow rod hogs.

My 15 was $8,200 plus T&L.  Now I've invested maybe another $2,500 or so more in it plus my time but it fits my like a glove, turns telepathically on a dime, and spins up faster and longer than anything else I've owned.  The only problem is I don't get to ride it and my other bikes long and far enough.

So while I can dream about getting yet another bike, I know I won't get one for quite a while, if at all at my age and condition.