Strange noise coming from engine ! FJ-09 Cam Chain

[traceroz]

What has been done to fix the snatchy throttle? I wasn't aware of that one? 
 

The throttle was re-calibrated from the MT-09, to be much smoother on the Tracer.  With the standard pipe, I find it much better than the standard MT-09.

[adjuster]

I started out with a 2014 FZ09, faster red of course, and in less than 3000 miles, the CCT failed to the point where it wore the nylon slider off the CCT tensioner, and rammed the aluminum framework into the chain, overheating the chain, filling the engine with nylon and aluminum shavings, and actually causing my engine to make a horrible screchting noise just as it locked up solid at about 65mph, also locking up the rear tire...
 
Oh joy. Highside if you get sideway much, and pull in the clutch, but I was very careful to get it straight, and THEN pull in the clutch, and was overjoyed to feel it rolling again. (There was a very large Ford Diesel who I'd just passed, spooling up his loud turbo right behind me, and that's when the engine chooses to lock up and die.... Nice Yamaha. Nearly kills me.
 
So, I got it unlocked as I pulled to the shoulder, bumped the clutch and it turned the engine over.
 
It ran, but was loudest ever. It was loud before, but the dealer was telling me bring it in, leave it for a few days, and we will adjust it. (Well, it's dang easy to adjust, you pull one small bolt, turn it with a small allen wrench and don't OVER turn it, just snug it so the noise goes away while it's idling, and you are good. Some guys were using bolts with a locking nut to try and keep the ratchet system from backing out instantly, and causing noise again. But that voids the warrenty if you admit it to Yamaha. And it can break the very weak/cheap/total failure design that has a weak spring clip that holds a tapered ratchet together that is supposed to auto adjust the tension as the engine wears over normal use.
 
Problem is, it can break really easy, and it does not stay at the correct setting, but backs out really easy, while it's not easy to get it to auto adjust. Some guys with the FZ09's had good luck with the set screw and lock nut. Yamaha blamed the failure of their Rube Goldberg CCT on this mod. Thus the tech bulletin that outlines what to look for, and how to void the warranty.
 
The solution is a set it and forget it APE unit. (Graves also makes one, funny, the Yamaha factory team guys even use manual adjusters, not the failure stock CCT... Yamaha did not have an answer for me when I asked them about that, it was funny to hear them bluster when confronted by their own failure to honor the failed design, and subsequent engine failure it can, and in my case, did cause.
 
But I did not give up, under threat of lawsuit, and recordings where their "tech" first told me it was hydraulic, had no spring, and that then had to eat his words when I pointed out he not only did not know what he was talking about, but was completely unqualified to make any sort of mechanical diagnosis to start with, had no formal, or even informal mechanical training or experience. Yes, they have guys making warranty calls with zero actual knowledge of the very engine or part they are paid to deny warranty coverage over. Classic failure there Yamaha.
 
In the end, they "did me a favor" and honored the warranty on a less than 3000 mile bike.
 
And I promptly traded in that bike for the 2015 FJ09 that I have now. Same engine, but with the "revised" CCT they say. (And it appears the reality is, some of the faulty CCT's were put into engines put into FJ09's it appears.)
 
Mine is noisy, but not like the FZ was.
I will not touch it until the warranty is done.
Then I will put the APE unit I bought for the FZ into my FJ, adjust as instructed and ignore the quiet running engine for 10 thousand miles or more. (Heck, no need to adjust unless you hear noise from a loose timing chain, and then it's a simple fix, unlock the manual CCT, turn slightly till the noise stops, back It off till you hear it again, and then till silent, and lock it down. Usually less than a quarter turn of the shaft should do the trick. They don't wear much over time when set right. If you have more turns, pull the cover, and check for excessive wear, and to make sure you don't over tighten the manual unit, and you will be fine.
 
So, here is my .02 cents.
 
Yamaha knows this is a problem.
The bike is a great machine. I bought it again without any issue there.
But like all companies, Yamaha wants to limit losses, and maximize profits, and that means they deny deny deny until they can't avoid responsibility, then they fix it, or face lawsuit, and if you do your part, document and record your conversations with Yamaha, they lose in court, and they know it.
 
So, if you have this noise, and have no warranty, get the APR, put it in right, and forget it.
If you have a warranty, get Yamaha to honor it.
 
But if you have this noise, it's not natural, it's not normal, and it's easy to fix.

[xlxr]

You just validated my biggest fear.
 
I completed the APE manual CCT installation. Engine runs noticeably smoother and stronger, less vibration, and I don't have to down shift to accelerate. Keep in mind, 650 miles are now on the bike, so I still have been keeping rpms below 6,000, most of the time.
 
The problem is I cannot find the adjustment point that completely eliminates the noise. I'll have to try again.

[marthy]

I've seen 3 CCT upgrade on the FZ09 and it's been a hit or miss thing. Most come down to the conclusion that spending $100 on a APE totally worth the peace of mind. Changing your CCT for a manual won't affect the warranty, as long as it's done right. The "How too" for the FZ09 on APE website work well and if you follow the instruction step by step, there's now way to go wrong. 
 
One last thing about the How too... Welcome! LOL

[td90s]

Just out of curiosity is there a way to identify the OEM tensioners. Meaning what version? Without removing it. Mine has a S2 cast into the cover. It is a 2016 with the old style oil sump.
Again this is just to satisfy my curiosity.

[clint]

Just out of curiosity is there a way to identify the OEM tensioners. Meaning what version? Without removing it. Mine has a S2 cast into the cover. It is a 2016 with the old style oil sump. Again this is just to satisfy my curiosity.

S1 stamped on mine. No issues for the past 15 months. 

[marthy]

If I remember well there's 3 version. S1-2-3.
 
Mine was just starting to make noise (S1) and adjusting it + put a bolt to hold it there so the tensioner doesn't back up seems to work for the time being. APE didn't have access to a FZ09 so I pull mine out to take some measurement... from there APE was nice to give me one to test and make sure it fit. Since I was the first one to have one I figured I do a "How too" so I don't have to quit my day job to answer emails LOL Turn out it was useful to a lot of members... I was surprise to find my How too on their website too.

[xlxr]

I am still having a hard time finding a specific setting that completely eliminates chain noise. It may be because I do have some high frequency hearing loss. The cam chain noise is definitely less than the clutch noise. I can pull in the clutch and hear it's noise change. But still hear a bit of cam chain noise. It is really hard for me to distinguish between the two different sounds. Does the cam chain noise ever go completely away, or really the best I should expect to do is just minimize it? When my engine is hot, I take off the side cover, push the bike forward in gear to put all the slack in the upper chain, the chain is touching the guide, just enough to be able to slide the chain side to side a bit, which to me indicates the chain is always in contact with the slide, but just lightly.
 
I am thinking the spring in the stock CCT is SUPPOSED to press the guide with enough pressure so the guide will be in contact with the cam chain at all times. You just do not want the cam chain flopping around loose at any time.

[xlxr]

I just figured out the answer to my own question. I went back to look at the engine cut away on page 4. When accelerating, the crank shaft pulls down on the front chain which is at the bottom of the crank pulley. Therefor, the chain touching the CCT guide goes slack when accelerating, therefor, the purpose of the CCT is controlling and minimizing that slack under acceleration. The guide will do this when just barely touching the chain when the engine is hot. Due to the curve in the guide, the guide will always have some contact somewhere along the chain.
 
When you let off the throttle and de-accelerate, the tension in the chain reverses. In this case, you still want the chain in light contact with the guide to control and minimize shift of cam timing, and minimize tendency of the cam from slamming against the chain as the forces reverse.
 
With this in mind, us old ugly half blind and tone deaf guys can get out the magnifier glasses and big flash lights and still adjust cam chain tension correctly.
 

[kroc]

Hi I have a 2015 Yamaha FJ 09 with over 6,400 km. This morning it started making a very noticeable metal rattle/knocking especially when warned up and from the cam chain tensioner area. I live in Lacombe Alberta and deal with Cycle Works in Red Deer.
 
There seems to be a lot of issues with the FZ and FJ 09 cam chain units. I just got the bike towards the end of March first part of April and have had it to visit family in Boise Idaho and Saskatoon, SK. This is my first Yamaha and this is disappointing.
 
I will be taking the bike in to Cycle Works to have them check it out.
 
Thanks for the thread!
 
Thomas

[kroc]

Here is a video that tries to illustrate the noise.

 

[kroc]

Another short video of the noise. It is rather disappointing on a 2015 FJ09 that I bought new at the end of March 2016. It has one year of factory warranty. Will the Ape cam chain tensioner void the warranty?
 

[joeszup]

Here is a video that tries to illustrate the noise.

I wanted the first two videos of this thread and didn't hear anything "obvious".  Yours?  Oh yeah, something messed up.

[kroc]

Just a bit of an update. I took the bike into the dealer Cycle Works in Red Deer. Wouldn't you know it - the bike makes the noise when first started this morning, on the way to work, at work (recorded it). Then when I left work to run into the dealer it made the noise. Then as I was leaving our work area it made the noise. I was riding slowly in 1st, gave it a bit of gas (not much though) and then let off the throttle as I was approaching a stop sign. The noise became quite noticeable and then it stopped completely. The bike sounded so sweet. I got to the dealer and had it up to 120 km or so on Hwy 2 on the way. I played the video taken this morning to the salesman and the service manager. The clanking was very noticeable in the video and the dealer staff acknowledged this. We then went and started the bike and as I had told the staff the bike sounded fine. I went over my experience when the noise stopped when leaving work. The service manager said he had seen this before and indicated that likely the tensioner mechanism was just on the threshold of advancing and did so thus tightening things up with the result that the clanking went away.
 
I was impressed with how they handled the situation and didn't blow me off or minimize my concerns. The young manager said to keep an eye on it and if it started up again they would replace it. The bike is still under warranty so I will leave it for now.
 
I think caution is needed to make sure one doesn't mistake some of the normal noise coming from the clutch. This clutch noise changes when the clutch lever is pulled in and released, while the clanking noise related to the cam chain tensioner stays the same regardless of whether the clutch is pulled in or out.
 
Maybe when the bike is off warranty and the CCT noise comes back I may then look at the ape manual CCT.

[clint]

Just a bit of an update. I took the bike into the dealer Cycle Works in Red Deer. Wouldn't you know it - the bike makes the noise when first started this morning, on the way to work, at work (recorded it). Then when I left work to run into the dealer it made the noise. Then as I was leaving our work area it made the noise. I was riding slowly in 1st, gave it a bit of gas (not much though) and then let off the throttle as I was approaching a stop sign. The noise became quite noticeable and then it stopped completely. The bike sounded so sweet. I got to the dealer and had it up to 120 km or so on Hwy 2 on the way. I played the video taken this morning to the salesman and the service manager. The clanking was very noticeable in the video and the dealer staff acknowledged this. We then went and started the bike and as I had told the staff the bike sounded fine. I went over my experience when the noise stopped when leaving work. The service manager said he had seen this before and indicated that likely the tensioner mechanism was just on the threshold of advancing and did so thus tightening things up with the result that the clanking went away.  
Maybe when the bike is off warranty and the CCT noise comes back I may then look at the ape manual CCT.

I installed the APE CCT today! Very quiet now...... Funny, as I always wear earplugs when riding and I never noticed the CCT clacking until I forgot to use them a few days ago. I know it hadn't been happening long as I sometimes start the bike in the garage and had never heard it. When I did, I knew exactly what it was.  Absolutely and totally satisfied with this product. Purrs like a kitten now.