clutch transmission issues

[474kz]

Hello all,
 
Im having some real issues with shifting on the Tracer and am nearly at my wits end. The bike has stock levers on it and has done 8000kms now, oil changed @ 1000km, 5000km, 7500km. I ride to work and back everyday - approx 50 kms in a day, most of which is filtering though slow moving cars - normally in 2nd /3rd (30-40 km/hr) and shift into 4th/ 5th (60-80km/hr) on the straighter stretches. Normally tnd to shift between 3k-4k rpm, what rpm do you guys normally shift at?
 
 
I have done the following:
 - changed the clutch cable,
 - checked the free play (currently has 4ish mm at the perch - 2 threads or so on the engine side used), throttle has about 7mm freeplay
 - changed the oil & filter ( about 400km now on the new batch - 10w40 full synthetic)
 
Could be my technique, but I dont seem to have any issues with any other bike apart from this one, so Im lost. Been riding close to 6 years now, but if someone has some tips I'd be happy to learn a new skill
 
For the upshifts I tend to go preload gear and then clutch in, throttle off and quick flick up, clutch out. Sometimes this works, sometimes the transmission refuses to shift up and kinda locks up - I have to go on and off the clutch again before it will shift up. 
 
For the downshifts, I do clutch in, rev throttle a bit, gear lever down and clutch lever out. Ocassionally, shifts from 1 -> 2 get stuck in Neutral and I've tried lowering the shift lever. The weird thing is, adjustments seem to work beautifully for 3 days or so and then it goes back to clunky hard shifting - no adjustments made in between... Im just slowly going mad.... What am I doing wrong?
 
Would someone be able to put up a pic of the freeplay amounts you have on your clutch / throttle please? Do any of you do anything differently? 
 
Appreciate any pointers.
 
Cheers
 
 
 
 
 
 

[wessie]

Loosen the chain to 25mm free play

[BentAero]

Zero $ tests: Try changing your footwear, and have one of your pals ride the bike and see if they have the same experience.

[keithu]

On upshifts, I recommend not preloading the shift lever. Preloading will often cause shift failure on this and other motorcycles.
 
You mentioned lowering the shift lever. A lot of us have had good luck raising the shift lever from the stock position. It seems the stock position is already too low and causes you to unwittingly preload the lever between shifts. This should also help with the problem of hitting neutral on the 2-1 downshift.

[OUA1]

I have shifting issues with my FJ-09 too, mostly when downshifting.  It seems to happen when I wait too long to downshift, i.e. when I accidentally let the road speed become less than or equal to the speed the engine would maintain in that gear at idle.  At that point, the effort required to downshift increases greatly, and the bike WILL NOT make a 2-1 shift; I have to shift into neutral, and then I can shift into first.  This becomes an issue when braking aggressively to a complete halt; I have almost lost my balance at a stoplight because, instead of putting my foot down, I was trying to get into a lower gear.
 
I have also noticed that, on a cold start (while on the center stand, of course), the rear wheel will rotate at a not insignificant speed, at tick-over, in neutral, with the clutch engaged (clutch lever out).  This is my first bike, and I assume it just has something to do with the tight tolerances on my high-performance Japanese rocket ship.  Once the bike warms up, the condition gradually fades and then disappears.  Has anyone else witnessed this?

[oldfart]

I have shifting issues with my FJ-09 too, mostly when downshifting.  It seems to happen when I wait too long to downshift, i.e. when I accidentally let the road speed become less than or equal to the speed the engine would maintain in that gear at idle.  At that point, the effort required to downshift increases greatly, and the bike WILL NOT make a 2-1 shift; I have to shift into neutral, and then I can shift into first.  This becomes an issue when braking aggressively to a complete halt; I have almost lost my balance at a stoplight because, instead of putting my foot down, I was trying to get into a lower gear. 
I have also noticed that, on a cold start (while on the center stand, of course), the rear wheel will rotate at a not insignificant speed, at tick-over, in neutral, with the clutch engaged (clutch lever out).  This is my first bike, and I assume it just has something to do with the tight tolerances on my high-performance Japanese rocket ship.  Once the bike warms up, the condition gradually fades and then disappears.  Has anyone else witnessed this?

My bike does 8 mph in neutral on the center stand with the engine idling.  I rarely start it on the center stand, usually the side stand, so I was pretty amazed when it rotated that fast!  I also thought it unusual that the bike reads the speed off the rear wheel instead of the front. But then I'm an oldfart and not too up on the latest technology.  At least I wasn't before getting the FJ-09.  At least it doesn't take off on it's own when I start it on the side stand, haha! 

[keithu]

Every motorcycle I've ever owned spins the rear wheel while idling on the centerstand, until the oil warms up. Your car would probably do it too if it started with the drive wheels off the ground.

[adjuster]

Wheel turns while on center stand.. Normal. Especially when the oil is thicker/cold, but even when hot it will do it at times on all my bikes with center stands.
 
Shifting, I'm really bad, I don't clutch much other than to stop. Or if as noted, I'm braking to stop in a hurry, and don't have time to down shift as the bike slows down, then I have to clutch and tap the shift lever and might even have to "slip" the clutch to help rotate the gears and get them back into first at the light for example.
 
All motorcycles that I'm aware of have dog type gear engagement. The faster you shift, the less wear you cause with this sort of transmission design. It's not like your auto with synchronizers that use cones of contact to spin up, or slow down the gears as they engage and then "dogs" on the synchro's engage the gears. The gears on bikes are helical cut too, so they are quiet. Straight cut gears, such as what's on big trucks and heavy equipment is a stronger design, but don't allow for syncro's so you have to double clutch to match gear speeds, and with a deft touch, you can feel the gears match speeds, and click them together with nearly no wear or noise if you know how to double clutch your rig. (Used to drive a school bus with this sort of transmission, and after I learned a particular bus, could drive my entire route only using the clutch to stop the bus or start.... LOL The rest of the day I just popped it out of gear off load, matched revs and slipped it into the next gear up or down.)
 
I have found some Yamaha's and other bikes don't like first gear downshifts at less than nearly stopped speeds. I think it depends on the ratio's? Some dirt bikes would let me downshift without the clutch at nearly any speed, very useful going down a hill, and engine braking the rear wheel. No time needed to waste with the clutch, just pop it down into first, and slow down without locking up or washing out the front wheel on loose dirt.
 
I tend to do this on deceleration when it's planned, such as going into a corner, brakes on, downshift to second and then power out of the corner... Chirps the rear tire as you do this, but the bike is right where you want it when you add the power and accelerate away. (Very cool if you get it right at a light about to go yellow, and you are turning right... As long as the white crossing stripes are not slick, you can really keep your momentum up and have some fun just riding to work.
 
Okay, back on topic. Make sure your oil does not have a high mileage rating. From what I understand if you have too much moly or zinc, the oil can make your clutch plates pretty sticky, and that will make shifting harder, and really make your rear wheel crank it over while on the stand out of gear. (That wheel movement is the sheer forces of your oil resisting sheer, between the gears since nothing is actually engaged metal wise while out of gear.. but the oil transfers energy by "sticking" the gears together and turning your rear wheel as a result.
 
You can brake the rear wheel, and then hold the tire, and feel how much force is being created by this effect, but don't ever touch the chain, it can nip off a finger or worse even just free spinning. There is energy stored in the mass of your wheel/tire/chain etc.
 
I personally use the spinning rear wheel as a good time to apply chain wax after a ride. Or you can just turn the wheel by hand and apply the wax.. Either way, it's a nice feature of a center stand on chain driven bikes. Take an old scrap of cardboard, and cut a notch in it the size of the rear axle. You can slip it between the wheel/tire/chain and it keeps overspray off your rear wheel and tire, and garage floor too.
 
And if that's dirty, throw it away, and cut a new one. Mine is tucked near the garage door for easy access, and to keep it out of the way when I'm not waxing the chain.

[wessie]

Every motorcycle I've ever owned spins the rear wheel while idling on the centerstand, until the oil warms up. Your car would probably do it too if it started with the drive wheels off the ground.

only if the bike/car has a wet clutch where the oil between the plates transfers the rotational energy from the crank to the the final drive. 
 
most cars have dry clutches and many bikes do as well. Shaft drive bikes from Moto Guzzi & BMW have dry clutches and any Ducati owner will tell about the clutch plates rattling. A quick google suggests high torque engines, like big twins, work better with dry clutches. 

[thruster8999]

Yes it does spin the rear wheel on the center stand but it shouldnt spin that fast.
My bike will move forward if I start it in 1st gear with the clutch in.

[britelitebob]

Hello all, 
Im having some real issues with shifting on the Tracer and am nearly at my wits end. The bike has stock levers on it and has done 8000kms now, oil changed @ 1000km, 5000km, 7500km. I ride to work and back everyday - approx 50 kms in a day, most of which is filtering though slow moving cars - normally in 2nd /3rd (30-40 km/hr) and shift into 4th/ 5th (60-80km/hr) on the straighter stretches. Normally tnd to shift between 3k-4k rpm, what rpm do you guys normally shift at?
 
 
I have done the following:
 - changed the clutch cable,
 - checked the free play (currently has 4ish mm at the perch - 2 threads or so on the engine side used), throttle has about 7mm freeplay
 - changed the oil & filter ( about 400km now on the new batch - 10w40 full synthetic)
 
Could be my technique, but I dont seem to have any issues with any other bike apart from this one, so Im lost. Been riding close to 6 years now, but if someone has some tips I'd be happy to learn a new skill
 
For the upshifts I tend to go preload gear and then clutch in, throttle off and quick flick up, clutch out. Sometimes this works, sometimes the transmission refuses to shift up and kinda locks up - I have to go on and off the clutch again before it will shift up. 
 
For the downshifts, I do clutch in, rev throttle a bit, gear lever down and clutch lever out. Ocassionally, shifts from 1 -> 2 get stuck in Neutral and I've tried lowering the shift lever. The weird thing is, adjustments seem to work beautifully for 3 days or so and then it goes back to clunky hard shifting - no adjustments made in between... Im just slowly going mad.... What am I doing wrong?

 
 
 
 
 

      Well your shifting and adjustments must be ok if you can ride it for a while with no trouble. The only way it could be going out of adjustment if everything's secure is if your cable is stretching or starting to come apart inside. Also it sounds like your over thinking your shifting, just keep it simple, let off the gas pull in the clutch and shift, leave the revving between gears to the Harley riders.

[com3]

don't ever preload the shifter. don't touch it at all until you're actually going to shift.
 
also, make sure the shift knuckle is at 90 degrees to the linkage. even at 85 degrees on the FJ, it can get pretty clunky.
 
i reversed my shift pattern on my FJ (1 up, 5 down) and then it had the shift shaft recall thingo that the dealer did...well, they put my shift knuckle at about 85 degrees, and suddenly i was missing shifts all over the place...even finding false neutrals on UPshifts between 5th and 6th gear... i was like "what the phuck did they do to my bike!?" i NEVER miss shift. i've been riding my whole life... then i checked everything over and saw the linkage not at an exact 90 degrees.
 
i fixed it, and it's been fine since.

[com3]

I have shifting issues with my FJ-09 too, mostly when downshifting.  It seems to happen when I wait too long to downshift, i.e. when I accidentally let the road speed become less than or equal to the speed the engine would maintain in that gear at idle.  At that point, the effort required to downshift increases greatly, and the bike WILL NOT make a 2-1 shift; I have to shift into neutral, and then I can shift into first.  This becomes an issue when braking aggressively to a complete halt; I have almost lost my balance at a stoplight because, instead of putting my foot down, I was trying to get into a lower gear. 
I have also noticed that, on a cold start (while on the center stand, of course), the rear wheel will rotate at a not insignificant speed, at tick-over, in neutral, with the clutch engaged (clutch lever out).  This is my first bike, and I assume it just has something to do with the tight tolerances on my high-performance Japanese rocket ship.  Once the bike warms up, the condition gradually fades and then disappears.  Has anyone else witnessed this?

 
just oil alone will cause enough friction to get the rear tire spinning.  if you can't easily stop it's rotation with just putting your foot or hand on the tire, then that means you don't have enough slack in the clutch cable.

[com3]

Every motorcycle I've ever owned spins the rear wheel while idling on the centerstand, until the oil warms up. Your car would probably do it too if it started with the drive wheels off the ground.

 
negative.  the car's transmission completely disengages when in park. also, if it's a manual, it doesn't have a wet clutch like 99% of bikes do.

[com3]

I tend to do this on deceleration when it's planned, such as going into a corner, brakes on, downshift to second and then power out of the corner... Chirps the rear tire as you do this, but the bike is right where you want it when you add the power and accelerate away. (Very cool if you get it right at a light about to go yellow, and you are turning right... As long as the white crossing stripes are not slick, you can really keep your momentum up and have some fun just riding to work.

 
if you "blip" your downshifts, you'll match engine speed to wheel speed to road speed, and you won't get any "chirps".  basically, you're downshifting and releasing the clutch too quickly and momentarly loosing grip with the rear tire.  
 
blipping will make everything a million times smoother.  
 
and when you start getting good at getting the rear to loose grip...you can start backing it in (forcing the rear to break loose under heavy decel by using the front brakes hard enough to lighten the rear off the ground some).