So is it Settled? What's the best suspension setup for the Tracer 900GT?

[betoney]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:04 PM, PhotoAl said:

Good points.  I've said it before my biggest issue is I take lots of long trips and the softer stock suspension is nice. However when I get to some twisty roads even fully loaded I like to play.  The T9GT intrigues me with the on the fly changes with the electronic suspension.  However still thinking a good rear shock sprung for something between my weight empty and fully loaded.

I do the same thing, ride long trips and then hit the twisty roads.  I usually don't find a need to mess with the forks once set where I like them but the shock I can remove a click or 2 on the rebound damping for highway riding and then add a few clicks back for the twisties. 

The main reason that I am not currently interested in the Tracer 9 is because even though it has electronic suspension damping it only has 2 settings, hard or soft.  Most other bikes with ES allow you to fine tune the settings by increasing or decreasing damping to your liking.  As far as I know, this is the only Yamaha with ES that they removed the option of allowing you to fine tune it to your liking.

The top spec Ohlins shock with rebound and compression adjustment as well as remote preload and sprung for your weight is around $1,100 on Revzilla, fork springs and oil are around $150.  You do NOT need complete cartridge replacements for the forks, unless you absolutely want the best of the best, springs and oil will get you a long way on the '19-'20 GT since it already has separately adjustable damping.

[duckie]

The biggest factor to ride quality is the ratio of unsprung mass to sprung mass. The bigger the ratio, the better the ride quality. This is why heavy motorcycles have smoother rides.

The unsprung mass is the wheel,tire, inner fork tube, brake caliper and so on……anything that is below the spring.

Want to make the Tracer ride smoother……add weight to the sprung mass or remove weight from the unsprung mass.

[PhotoAl]

Great points @betoney and @duckie I'd probably be ordering from Revzilla right now but Apple introduced a new computer today - decisions decisions!

@betoney I've been mulling over the idea of a new rear shock and your comments are perfect.  I actually dialed a bit of preload out after my last trip and it seems quite nice now.  More preload than before the trip.  For a trip I dial the preload up to compensate for the extra weight but afterwards don't always set it back, the other day I did back it off but not to where it was and it did make a good improvement.  On the way back took a short twisty section that has bad pavement.  Don't go that fast over it as gravel and loose stuff may be around but did notice the shortcomings of the suspension that are not so apparent on smooth pavement.

[duckie]

Is it short comings of the suspension and/or setup or unrealistic expectations of the suspension?

Suspension operation quality is also speed sensitive. In this case speed is the speed of the motorcycle. You just might not being going fast enough or slow enough for the suspension to work properly in its current setup. My 04 R1 works great on the track but no way would be very user friendly on the street. A riding buddy had his YZF750 setup for track on the street. There were certain roads he just could not ride on with pleasure cause the suspension was to stiff and he got jarred to death on them. 

Just saying that the suspension is not always the problem.

[wordsmith]

Jayzonk - try this on for size...GT suspension upgrade - September 4th 2019  

I'll have to be briefer than usual, for my supposedly-fixed PC is still sulking.

The work took Joe - owner of Ride Dynamics and suspension guru par excellence - some three and half hours of steady work, with no coffee or smoko breaks and no time-wasting Facebook chat.

As I had said before, his workshop is neat, clean, tidy, a place for everything and everything in its place, including the multitude of specialist tools required for this work.  I couldn't imagine an amateur like me working with cheap hand-tools in a home garage being successful. 

We again confirmed what I was looking for, we chatted briefly about my riding weight, whether pillion and/ or luggage is routinely carried, etc., and hi ho, hi ho!, it was off to work.   After I swore on a stack of Bibles that I wouldn't get in his way or want to chat constantly, Joe allowed me to stand by - not too close! - to observe and take pix.   It was a very interesting experience as calm, methodical work proceeded.

As the various parts emerged from the front fork legs Joe explained the function of the various bits - springs, pistons controlling oil-flow, and so on.   To my novice eyes, the new K-tech components looked as if they'd just come from a high-end Swiss watch manufacturer, beautifully finished as they were.

The rear shock was a more straightforward swap, and although I was surprised at the weight of the new Razor R shock with remote adjuster, the OE shock was much heavier.   The new unit has adjustable length, so about 10 or 12mm (half-an-inch) was wound out, lowering the bike's rear by that much after I said that I like to be able to fully flat-foot at rest, which is barely achievable with the OE unit.

Sag - which I had always believed to be what happens to a woman's breasts and a man's belly as they age (the latter has happened to me!) - was precisely measured with a cunning device as small incremental changes were made until the desired settings were reached.   Joe reckons that it's rare for an owner to need to return to him for further tweaking, but of course it's there as required.   After he had a short test-ride to check everything, it was my turn to ride home, with my thoughts already given after that short and brief 33km ride.

Yesterday's 181km outing along very familiar roads was intended to give me more time to evaluate things on terrain of widely-varying surfaces and conditions.   There is a distinct improvement in ride quality, best explained that the sharp reactions to road surface irregularities were ironed-out and a more compliant and composed and comfortable ride eventuated.   A very good example of what this means was quickly apparent, as I found that I was no longer constantly being bumped-up off the seat and inched forward until my gonads were crushed against the rear of tank: I was 'planted' more  firmly in the chosen spot.   Of course, larger irregularities in the road-surface - and there are plenty where I went - were still felt, and I don't want to try to convince members that this was a magic-carpet ride, but certainly it was a pleasing outcome for me.

Memories of subjective impressions are such that it would be fruitless for me to try to compare the new GT ride with that of my later BMW Boxer twins, which are much heavier bikes and with high-end OE components, including BMW's incomparable Telever front-end, but I am happy.

I now intend to take that planned ~1000km circuit some time in the next week or two (but not at next week's end, for it will be Friday the thirteenth!), by which time a couple of shorter outings will have put a few hundred kilometres on the new suspension and allowed everything to have bedded-down.

A very good question at this point might be - "was it worth the $2100 spent on the K-tech upgrade?".    I'm fortunate enough to have spare disposable income, so while not quite a no-brainer the matter of cost was not a great concern.   But others may prefer to take a different lower-cost approach, maybe getting specialists like Ride Dynamics to make changes to the OE components by simply changing oils, shims, springs, whatever, and tinkering with the adjustability of the ex-factory suspension.

The jury is still out as far as I'm concerned on whether or not I'll want/ need to buy a new BAGSTER seat to replace the GT's OE seat, which although light-years ahead of Gen1 seats is still only 'just' for me.   A new BAGSTER seat would cost $450 -$550 depending on specification, but from past experience I know that it would be the cherry on top of the icing on the cake.   I'll make that call after the 1000km outing in a few weeks time, but in any case they are not yet available.

Finally, big thanks to captainscarlet who introduced me on this Forum to K-tech and the whole shebang.   Pix follow...

 a place for everything...

 new Razor-R rear shock

 work under way...

 new (red) and old OE shocks.   

 spotless workshop..

 draining oil from fork legs..

 OE (right) and new oil-flow pistons 

 fork off...

 new K-tech oil-flow control pistons

 beautifully machined...

 new rear shock installed

 sag-o-meter

 job done!

Edited 2 minutes ago by wordsmith

[Jayzonk]

What an amazing post.  Makes me want to do a K-Tech upgrade, but I don't know where the reliable suspension shops are in Ontario.  

[wordsmith]

Why not contact K-Tech HQ - somewhere in the UK Midlands - and ask them?   Unfortunately, I have no shares in the company!

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[piotrek]

21 minutes ago, Jayzonk said:

What an amazing post.  Makes me want to do a K-Tech upgrade, but I don't know where the reliable suspension shops are in Ontario.  

https://acceleratedtechnologies.ca/

[texscottyd]

@wordsmith - Nice to see you lurking around, my friend!   Great insight, as always.  

I hope all is well with you. 

[wordsmith]

11 hours ago, texscottyd said:

@wordsmith - Nice to see you lurking around, my friend!   Great insight, as always.  

I hope all is well with you. 

Thanks indeed, tex - all is well, in fact somewhat wellerer than of late, for today I ventured our on the SP for the first time in about ten weeks.   Dreadful and prolonged weather events causing widespread floods, many deaths, tremendous loss of and damage to properties, roads, bridges and other infrastructure have kept me and no doubt many others off the roads for a long time.   This has affected the entire east coast of Oz, with my home town of Brisbane being particularly badly hit (tho' happily we are OK), then as the La Nina system moved south the north coast of New South Wales and then Sydney were devastated in turn.   It's supposedly a one-in-a-thousand-years event, but they said that eleven years ago when a similar thing happened!   

 

I'm 'lurking' because I have maybe - just maybe - a  renewed interest in a  2020 Tracer 900GT, of which there are only two new bikes still lurking unsold in dealerships here, and I've a little light touring in mind when the country dries out.   Hmmm - (scratches head).   The dealerships must be pretty desperate to quit them....

Edited March 13, 2022 by wordsmith
added photo

[wordsmith]

On 3/13/2022 at 3:30 AM, Jayzonk said:

What an amazing post.  Makes me want to do a K-Tech upgrade, but I don't know where the reliable suspension shops are in Ontario.  

Further to my post above, I recalled that I had written another post on the subject some time later, after the guru who did my K Tech conversion had worked again on the bike and fine-tuned the suspension after I'd ridden it for some time and distance after the initial work.

Try as I might I cannot find that post, but clearly remember most of what was done.   For some reason, as a decidedly non-expert in such matters, I thought that the front of the bike was not quite 'right', saying at the time that it felt at times as if it was 'pitter-pattering' over minor and closely-spaced corrugations.

Joe Salter, my guru, set to, saying that I had paid for the job and he wanted it to be right (a wonderful change of approach compared to so many!).   A slightly lighter spring was put in (was it 8.5 from 9, or am I kidding myself?) and he also fiddled elsewhere in the front fork, but I cannot recall precisely what was done.  No charge, of course, as it all came under the quote I was given for the job.

Whatever, as good as the initial result was, the newly re-worked suspension was a transformation.   I used the phrase - well-remembered now - that "my bum thought it had died and gone to heaven".   I had initially asked for the ride to be compliant for comfort rather than for pin-sharp race-track handing, and that's what I got, with no loss of steering sharpness or 'feel' that I could detect.   

You may be lucky enough to get the same expertise and service, and if my experience is anything to go by it's at least worthwhile having a chat with your preferred K Tech suspension house.  

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by wordsmith

[duckie]

Just curious, did ya re use the OEM low speed adjusting needles or use ktech low speed adjusting needles? 

[wordsmith]

6 hours ago, duckie said:

Just curious, did ya re use the OEM low speed adjusting needles or use ktech low speed adjusting needles? 

Sorry that I cannot answer that question, duckie - I just don't know.

[dazzler24]

17 hours ago, wordsmith said:

Further to my post above, I recalled that I had written another post on the subject some time later, after the guru who did my K Tech conversion had worked again on the bike and fine-tuned the suspension after I'd ridden it for some time and distance after the initial work.

Try as I might I cannot find that post, but clearly remember most of what was done.   For some reason, as a decidedly non-expert in such matters, I thought that the front of the bike was not quite 'right', saying at the time that it felt at times as if it was 'pitter-pattering' over minor and closely-spaced corrugations.

Joe Salter, my guru, set to, saying that I had paid for the job and he wanted it to be right (a wonderful change of approach compared to so many!).   A slightly lighter spring was put in (was it 8.5 from 9, or am I kidding myself?) and he also fiddled elsewhere in the front fork, but I cannot recall precisely what was done.  No charge, of course, as it all came under the quote I was given for the job.

Whatever, as good as the initial result was, the newly re-worked suspension was a transformation.   I used the phrase - well-remembered now - that "my bum thought it had died and gone to heaven".   I had initially asked for the ride to be compliant for comfort rather than for pin-sharp race-track handing, and that's what I got, with no loss of steering sharpness or 'feel' that I could detect.   

You may be lucky enough to get the same expertise and service, and if my experience is anything to go by it's at least worthwhile having a chat with your preferred K Tech suspension house.  

 

Is this the one you're referring to Wordy?

[Jayzonk]

Sure.  I sent a message to Ktech to see if they've got a shop near me.  They cc'd a shop in New York State, which would only work if it is upstate, close to the Canadian border.