trench Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 I demoed the XR today for about 40 min on city streets, highway, and twisties. This is an incredible bike to be sure. Let me simply compare the elements to the FJ-09 that I rode to the demo and back and comment on the value of this bike that costs 2x. Engine: I actually like the FJ better. It feel like it was born to rev. The 4 cyl feels like you have to push it too high to get the revs up. The XR engine is great with linear delivery of HP and torque from low RPM to high. Very good, but I prefer the FJ slightly at most speeds other than highway. Fueling: XR is better. Much better at low-speed city street driving. The throttle feel is 2x better. The FJ is not much competition here unless one is hooligan riding primarily. I have learned to control the FJ and love it when I want the punch, but it is far from stable and refined. Drivechain: XR is slightly better. The power transfer to the wheel is rock solid. Shifting is a breeze especially without the clutch. Would be much better if the regular clutch shifting was more positive. Suspension: XR is 2x better. Far more stable and the dynamic electronics make the ride perfect in all conditions. Amazing. Brakes: XR is 2x better. No comparison. The linked braking makes strong braking a one finger job. Brilliant. FJ is adequate at best. Electronics. XR is 2x better with one notable exception (dash UI). The electronics that control performance and riding experience are seamless and flawless. Cruise. Perfect. I do like the FJ speed and gear indicators better. Comfort. XR is 1.5x better. The riding geometry is tighter and validates my theory that the FJ seat issue is actually a geometry issue. The pegs are far too low on the FJ. One sits IN the XR and as such seating is plush and wind protection/noise is better, but not perfect. One sits ON the FJ so the ride is much taller and spread out - less sporty and makes a good seat almost impossible. The one bad knock on the XR is random buzzing and vibrations in the seat, frame, and pegs at deceleration. It is a jarring and shocking sensation given the refinement of everything else. With the vibration and slightly better windscreen and this would be 2x better. So, the question is if the XR is worth 2x the price. This bike is more refined and solid in almost every way. The stability erases 20PH of speed. Truly. Many elements are 2x or more in quality and performance. No doubt for me, but I keep coming back to a nagging point: The fun factor was the same. In fact I sense that the practical power-to-weight ratio is better on the FJ. I deliberately the tested the roll-on "grin factor" in all riding conditions and I prefer the FJ. Knowing that I have an extra 10K in my pocket elevates that grin. The XR is an amazing next generation adventure sport and I don't necessarily want to own one. The FJ is just as fun and an amazing adventure sport. It will be much cheaper to run and own (by 2x). For most of us this works better, but I have to tell you that I am almost done with the stock fueling, seat, grips, and windscreen. I am quite concern this may not be my long term bike if I can't truly enjoy 100 mi rides. I'm eagerly looking for refinements coming in future years and may trade for that. In any event, a fun demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member alejandro Posted September 20, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted September 20, 2015 @trench, thanks for the awesome summary. At the risk of (re)stating the obvious, the value equation will be different for everyone--and the preferences will be too. I actually love the spaciousness of the FJ seating. I'm only 5'10" / 177cm but sometimes I put the seat in the "high" position just because I like the added leg room. I *prefer* the sensation of sitting on vs. sitting in the bike, and I love that the FJ feels small and light (relatively). I would prefer a seating position *slightly* more in the sport touring direction, and I may work on getting there, but for now, I'm happy. Oh, and the stock seat--at first, on shorter rides, I found it underwhelming--but on the occasions when I've ridden all day, I have gotten off the bike feeling surprisingly great. I think what makes the stock seat work for me is that it's so giant, I can reposition every 10 minutes if I want. I don't think I would be able to do this if I were sitting "in" the bike. The stock windscreen was dreadful for me. Solved (mostly) with Madstad 24". The stock fueling is mediocre. (SIGNIFICANT contrast to the 2013 Street Triple R I had.) I will probably address this with the flash. I was happy being able to choose my own luggage. I got bags that are big enough to hold helmets (Shad 36). Again, I can't speak to the value equation for anyone else. For me, it was pretty much a choice between the FJ, a Triumph Tiger, a Hyperstrada, and a Multistrada. Tiger--too mellow. Hyperstrada--probably too much hyper, not enough strada given my desire to take more longer trips. I think I could have been very happy with a Multistrada, especially if I could have gotten several thousand dollars off list, if it had been well-behaved, maintenance-wise--but it's hard to know. And ongoing cost of ownership would undoubtedly have been higher regardless. Multi (or XR for that matter) might have felt just that little bit bigger and taller for riding around the city compared to the FJ. I have zero regrets about the FJ. The FJ is only the 3rd bike I've ever owned (Ninja 500, Street Triple R). I like that it's "midweight". It does not feel so precious that I worry about parking it in the city. It does not feel so finicky that I worry about reliability. I can take it to my independent garage rather than having to deal with the dealer. Maybe in the future I will buy a "super" bike of some sort. But with the FJ being as good as it is for me, I'm in no hurry at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I demoed the XR today for about 40 min on city streets, highway, and twisties. This is an incredible bike to be sure. Let me simply compare the elements to the FJ-09 that I rode to the demo and back and comment on the value of this bike that costs 2x. Comfort. XR is 1.5x better. The riding geometry is tighter and validates my theory that the FJ seat issue is actually a geometry issue. The pegs are far too low on the FJ. One sits IN the XR and as such seating is plush and wind protection/noise is better, but not perfect. One sits ON the FJ so the ride is much taller and spread out - less sporty and makes a good seat almost impossible. I think what you are noticing is the same thing I noticed (but it took me awhile). Yamaha took a sport bike riding position and added taller bars. That's it, that is all they did. As a result the foot pegs are farther back than typical upright bikes. It just feels awkward and it took me quite some time to figure out why. Once I took out the tape measure and looked at different bikes it became pretty obvious where the issue was. The pegs on the FJ are 4 to 6 inches farther back than your typical upright bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 This is a good site for doing a quick look at your riding position on different bikes http://cycle-ergo.com/. Your legs are tucked up more on the S1000XR with a slight forward lean angle. Looking at a side-by-side comparison, I would expect the FJ-09 to be more comfortable on longer rides. STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trench Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Correct to the XR geometry. For long trips your legs would like the FJ, but your inner thighs will hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 This is a good site for doing a quick look at your riding position on different bikes http://cycle-ergo.com/. Your legs are tucked up more on the S1000XR with a slight forward lean angle. Looking at a side-by-side comparison, I would expect the FJ-09 to be more comfortable on longer rides. Not even close. I could only ride the FJ for about 45 minutes before I was squirming. The XR is way, way more comfortable and I am good for a full fuel tank run. Cycle ergo is a good start but it does not tell the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deersSlayer Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 This is a good site for doing a quick look at your riding position on different bikes http://cycle-ergo.com/. Your legs are tucked up more on the S1000XR with a slight forward lean angle. Looking at a side-by-side comparison, I would expect the FJ-09 to be more comfortable on longer rides. Not even close. I could only ride the FJ for about 45 minutes before I was squirming. The XR is way, way more comfortable and I am good for a full fuel tank run. I can go a full tank on the FJ; it's very comfortable for me with the Seat Concepts seat. I did an 880 km day, and I was fine (that's too long a day for me on any bike, I prefer 450 - 550. Small back roads!) One thing I really, really like about the FJ is the low weight. How much heavier is the XR? I would probably love the XR if it's not heavy. FJ-09, 690 Enduro R. Back Roads. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Not even close. I could only ride the FJ for about 45 minutes before I was squirming. The XR is way, way more comfortable and I am good for a full fuel tank run. I can go a full tank on the FJ; it's very comfortable for me with the Seat Concepts seat. I did an 880 km day, and I was fine (that's too long a day for me on any bike, I prefer 450 - 550. Small back roads!) One thing I really, really like about the FJ is the low weight. How much heavier is the XR? I would probably love the XR if it's not heavy. 502 full of fuel according to cycle world. 40 lbs more than the FJ just for comparison. Really not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 This is a good site for doing a quick look at your riding position on different bikes http://cycle-ergo.com/. Your legs are tucked up more on the S1000XR with a slight forward lean angle. Looking at a side-by-side comparison, I would expect the FJ-09 to be more comfortable on longer rides. Not even close. I could only ride the FJ for about 45 minutes before I was squirming. The XR is way, way more comfortable and I am good for a full fuel tank run. Cycle ergo is a good start but it does not tell the whole story. Assume that you own both the FJ-09 and S1000XR? Ride comfort obviously varies from individual to individual, but to be uncomfortable after only 45 minutes seems a little unfortunate. Many riders here, including myself, have no problem with riding a full tank. Have fun on the S1000XR! STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Not even close. I could only ride the FJ for about 45 minutes before I was squirming. The XR is way, way more comfortable and I am good for a full fuel tank run. Cycle ergo is a good start but it does not tell the whole story. Assume that you own both the FJ-09 and S1000XR? ... Yep. He already said it earlier in this thread. He has owned both. http://fj-09.org/post/24357/thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogri Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Thank you! I don't get around to reading every post. Glad to hear that http://fj-09.org/user/215 is happy with the S1000XR, just as I am with the FJ-09. STUFF EVERYTHING - I'VE ALWAYS GOT MY BIKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 No problem. Different bikes for different folks. I love my FJ, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little jealous of the XR. lol. Way out of my price range though and like I said, I still love my FJ. When I grow up, maybe I can afford an XR too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanner Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I demoed the XR today for about 40 min on city streets, highway, and twisties. This is an incredible bike to be sure. Let me simply compare the elements to the FJ-09 that I rode to the demo and back and comment on the value of this bike that costs 2x. Engine: I actually like the FJ better. It feel like it was born to rev. The 4 cyl feels like you have to push it too high to get the revs up. The XR engine is great with linear delivery of HP and torque from low RPM to high. Very good, but I prefer the FJ slightly at most speeds other than highway. ... Thank you for your comparison. I'm currently cross-shopping the FJ and the XR. I'm planning on about 70% city riding. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions. Around the city, how heavy did the XR feel compared to the FJ? Did it feel more difficult to handle at low speeds like creeping in traffic? If you had both bikes in your garage, which one do you think you would be reaching for more? Interesting you said the fun factor was the same. Really the only thing the XR has over the FJ that I really want is cornering ABS and CC (I do like BMW's bag system, too). Not sure all that is worth 2x the price if there is no increase in grins for the $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trench Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 Hi Tanner, The XR felt very poised and lightly heavier around town. It has a bit better EFI fueling for town, but was surprising rough sounding. I did feel the extra weight, but the seat felt lower so it was mostly a trade-off. The FJ feels light in every situation and the most maneuverable in tight spots. I ride the FJ slowly around cars and onto the sidewalk at my coffee shop. I wouldn't attempt that on a bigger bike. Which one would I reach for more? Short twisty joy ride: FJ, 300 miles to mom's house: XR (cruise, seat, screen). In general the XR would get more miles. If I had both I would sell the FJ because really the bikes fill the name role for me. The XR is a little or a lot better on some dimensions, but the value doesn't win against the FJ for me. The main things I wold miss is the sweet engine and quick throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabby Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I test rode the xr before I bought my tracer (fj) it's an amazing bike, loved it but vowed never to go back to an il4 so that was that for me. It's almost twice the price, is it twice the bike ? Would I have twice the fun ?? Simple answer to both questions. ....NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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