Why is it so...?

[norcal616]

None of the other brands offer "character" which puts that shyt eating grin on yer face...only gripe I have is ppl wanting a "windshield out of a windscreen" for a NAKED bike... round here I see alot of FZ-09s being used at the track by gals more so than the guys...

[jo1000]

The head shake is NOT caused by holding the bars too tight. It happened to me, once me and a buddy were bee lining it home from VA doing 80-85 on 81 heading north and guy on a Suzuki got in front of us and was doing 70-75 . So my buddy went around him then when it was my turn he decided to crank it up, making me "earn" my spot in front of him. I got it up to 110mph and the bike started to rock left to right. It didn't matter how I was holding the bars nothing was going to stop this, I suspect it's the hand gardes.

[britelitebob]

I have mentioned more than once on this Forum that the MT-09/ FJ-09 Tracer has been a very poor seller on the Australian market.   I am surrounded by Yamaha dealers, but other than at a planned meet-up with two other Traceristas some time ago have only seen one other on the road.   In contrast, the non-Tracer MT-09 hooligan sportsbike seems to perform well in its sales segment, and is seen everywhere. 

Could it be that after seeing all the trouble you had trying to find a proper seat Wordsmith that the Australian buyers just decided to spend their money elsewhere?

[britelitebob]

I think write ups on the net might have something to do with it. People do their homework before buying, they hear about the limiter, the head shake at speed. Alot of people don't like triples there is a thought out there that might be somewhat true triples are kinda buzzy. I read one article about the FJ I think it was cycle world the only positive thing they said was something about the small turning radius and lets face there is alot of fine machines out there . There are people who can afford $20k for a motorcycle, KTM Ducati BMW comes to mind, skyhook type of suspension, more power. But in my mind all those bikes are not worth twice the price of our machines, I love my FJ09 it tours and it handles well and has enough power for me .

This to my mind highlights the pluses and minuses of the wonderful world of the web.  On the plus side we all have access to an enormous wealth of information.  The down side is much of this information is, to put it politely, not what you'd call reliable or well informed. 
If we take a couple of examples specific to the Tracer.  I am of the firm opinion that the head shake at speed is caused by people holding the bars too tightly, even though they don't think they are.  This is not a problem of the bike but all it takes is a few people on the forums and suddenly the bike is one wobble away from killing us all.  I did a quick Google search on steering wobble for other bikes and within seconds was presented with loads of hits and pages of forum posts from Triumph Tiger 800 owners also claiming that their bikes are faulty because at speed they get a steering wobble.  In amongst these posts I found one very enlightening one which I quote:

There are a lot of references to steering/bar wobble on this forum, generally at higher speeds though.
 
I did my first Tiger Ton last week and did indeed get the wobble around 95 (mph (unless the authorities are watching in which case I mean kph :007:)).
Just relaxed my grip and it sorted itself out - setup is a Roadie, original tyres, AMC topbox with only a laptop and my butties in...
 
Another example is the hoards of FJ-09/Tracer owners demanding that their perfectly functioning CCTs be changed out.  Now I'm not saying that CCTs haven't been prone to failure, some have.  But many, including mine, are still functioning perfectly.  However suddenly there's some info on a forum and everyone is rushing to their dealer demanding action on a recall that isn't a recall at all but a TSB.  
 
To my mind the Tracer is brilliant.  It's a well screwed together fun all-rounder at an amazing price point.  Some of the components are obviously cheap but what do you expect for the price??  I think you are bang on jovrider when you say that KTMs and BMWs costing almost twice the money are not twice as good because they simply aren't.  A visit to any one of the numerous KTM or BMW forums reveals people complaining about seats, screens, suspension etc. and spending money on changing these items.  The only difference between them and us is that their starting point was considerably more expensive.
 
All IMHO.
 
CS

Seems to me that this should be all the more reason for manufacturers to make sure their quality control and customer service departments are up to snuff. These little problems turn into big problems when a manufacturer just goes into denial mode or takes their sweet time dealing with an issue. I think BMW invented that business model and unfortunately, it looks like Yamaha may be following in their footsteps. 
 

[captainscarlet]

The head shake is NOT caused by holding the bars too tight. It happened to me, once me and a buddy were bee lining it home from VA doing 80-85 on 81 heading north and guy on a Suzuki got in front of us and was doing 70-75 . So my buddy went around him then when it was my turn he decided to crank it up, making me "earn" my spot in front of him. I got it up to 110mph and the bike started to rock left to right. It didn't matter how I was holding the bars nothing was going to stop this, I suspect it's the hand gardes.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. 
CS

[gerdawg]

The head shake is NOT caused by holding the bars too tight. It happened to me, once me and a buddy were bee lining it home from VA doing 80-85 on 81 heading north and guy on a Suzuki got in front of us and was doing 70-75 . So my buddy went around him then when it was my turn he decided to crank it up, making me "earn" my spot in front of him. I got it up to 110mph and the bike started to rock left to right. It didn't matter how I was holding the bars nothing was going to stop this, I suspect it's the hand gardes.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. 
CS

I'd be interested to hear the science behind this statement. Doesn't even sound like something that would be possible. All of the death wobbles I've heard happening were due to the person letting go of the handlebars or holding on too loosely. Now too tight is a problem? That's something new I've never heard of. 
Personally I'd be willing to bet Yamaha isn't using tapered bearings on the FJ09 which is what contributed to wobbles on the FJR. Anyone with the issue check the steering head bearing tightness and can report findings? Additionally anyone swap over to tapered and are you still seeing the issue?

[jo1000]

I still think it's those big Handguards, the way the bike gently rolled left to right it felt like it was wind induced.

[wordsmith]

I have mentioned more than once on this Forum that the MT-09/ FJ-09 Tracer has been a very poor seller on the Australian market.   I am surrounded by Yamaha dealers, but other than at a planned meet-up with two other Traceristas some time ago have only seen one other on the road.   In contrast, the non-Tracer MT-09 hooligan sportsbike seems to perform well in its sales segment, and is seen everywhere. 

Could it be that after seeing all the trouble you had trying to find a proper seat Wordsmith that the Australian buyers just decided to spend their money elsewhere?

Not really, roberto, as you'd surely have to own and ride the bike a bit before butt-death became apparent!   But you may be right!   Fortunately, solutions (expensive) do exist...

[britelitebob]

I would just tell people that if you're going to run your bike at speeds in excess of 100 mph you better be prepared for weird chit to happen because if you're not you could end up having a bad day, I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying.

[proast]

Would you mind sharing how you came to ride around the Italian lakes?  Where did you rent the bikes?  How did you pick a route? Thanks
 
 
This is from the north tip of Lake Garda at Riva Del Garda.  Recent bicycle tour of the Dolomites.
 
 

I'd been thinking/dreaming about it for a couple of years....then a work trip to Milan for a trade show came up. 
I took leave and added it onto the end. I researched online and spoke to some guys I was doing a ride with around the Aussie Snowy Mountains (such as they are).
 
BIKE HIRE.
It came down to either CIMT or HPMotorad both based in Milan. Both are very good...however I went with HPMotorad and was really pleased with the experience.
 
The Multistrada 950 only had 4 kilometers on it... was fitted out with hard side cases and top box. You can take an unlimited km price or base plus €0.25/km. I went the per km charge and while it quickly added up it was still the better of the options. If you do the math you need to do about 300km a day every day to be better off on the unlimited plan.
 
Its not cheap though at around €150/day +/-.
 
By comparison I also rented a little Lancia Ypsilon car for a week from Centauro near Malpensa airport and it was €21 for the WEEK. Yep not per day. Go figure.
 
You can rent all riding gear if you want. I took all my own jacket, pants, Jean's, gloves, boots and just rented a modular helmet. You have the option of adding on an intercom but it all starts to add up.
 
ACCOMMODATION.
I booked an apartment for a week on Air BnB in the small town NJ of Mandello Del Lario on the far east side of the right hand leg of Lake Como. Partly because it was outstanding value for money and still only an hour into Milan by motorway or by train...and also because it is the home of Moto Guzzi and Agostini. You can self cater...pick up supplies at the local grocery store etc. So it is totally practical to base yourself in one location while you do the lakes and beyond.
 
ROUTE PLANNING.
I pretty much used Google maps. If you download the offline map of the region before you go or via WiFi in the apartment etc you get navigation easily with little data usage. My Australian telco offers an international roaming plan that is affordable at $10/day and includes data.
 
I took also took my own Givi phone holder and mounted it so had navigation all sorted.
 
The lakes themselves are a comfortable days ride each.
 
 
While the km around might not look much on Google maps, remember that the speed limit around the lakes it mostly 50 km/h dropping to 30 km/h in the little villages.
 
Sounds incredibly slow but the road through many villages is cobblestone and narrows down to a single lane with a light control to stop traffic in one direction while the other goes, plus the buildings are zero setback from the edge of the road...mix in pedestrians and 30 km/h sometimes seems too fast. Occasionally out of the towns the limit lifts to 70 km/h.
 
I did Como in a clock-wise direction one day. Maggiore the next. Como again anti-clockwise for another perspective. Stumbled across some brilliant twisties ascending to an observatory....just brilliant.
 
Another day trip from base...Went to Bormio to the bottom of the Stelvio Pass (highly rated by Top Gear) but also it was still closed for winter for another 4 days...so much for timing. I went Mid April.
 
Another nice day trip was to head North up over the Italian/Swiss border up to St. Moritz. Simply stunning scenery and like a post card. The roads were dry and nice free at this stage but Snow banks left and right and the lake was still frozen over but signs of starting to melt. It may seem ho-hum to our FJ09er friends elsewhere in the world but for an Aussie boy who's never been skiing or spent any time near snow (Aus. snow hardly rates anyway) I had to constantly lift my jaw back onto place off the ground.
 
If you want to travel further and go across country then both these bike hire companies have one way rental options via the major points...Venice, Florence, Rome etc.
 
Hope you're inspired...it is achievable without spending a fortune.
 
I'm sure the experience and comradry on a big organized tour would be fine (Edelweiss Tours is one I've considered) but it comes at a cost and also the price of less flexibility.
 
I've sold the Mrs on going with me next April.
 
FINAL TIP.
I got onto the Italain Ebay and also Rocco from webmoto.it and bought some gear for the Tracer. Givi bars, Top Box, mounting plate etc and had them delivered to my Hotel...free delivery within Italy. Much cheaper than locally purchasing and could just squeeze all into my checked baggage allowance home.

[wordsmith]

Excellent write-up on your circuits of the Italian lakes, proast - and very nice pix too.   I am turning a brighter shade of green!

[captainscarlet]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. 
CS

I'd be interested to hear the science behind this statement. Doesn't even sound like something that would be possible. All of the death wobbles I've heard happening were due to the person letting go of the handlebars or holding on too loosely. Now too tight is a problem? That's something new I've never heard of. 
Personally I'd be willing to bet Yamaha isn't using tapered bearings on the FJ09 which is what contributed to wobbles on the FJR. Anyone with the issue check the steering head bearing tightness and can report findings? Additionally anyone swap over to tapered and are you still seeing the issue?

The "science" is blindingly simple.  When you're riding at speed you upper body and arms are like great big sails catching the wind.  If the wind is a little turbulent, your arms are not bent and relaxed and you're holding the bars a little too tightly then the turbulent air will result in you yourself continuously making small steering inputs.  This is what gets the wobble going.  If at that point you relax your arms and loosely grip the bars then the wobble will almost certainly dissipate. 
As I have stated previously I find it interesting that people try to propagate all kinds of spurious mechanical and physical theories for why things happen on the bike.  They then throw money at the symptoms as they see them.  Yamaha built the Tracer with a relatively aggressive steering geometry which has more in common with a quick steering sportsbike than a lumbering slow steering tourer.  That's one of the things which makes it so much fun to ride.
 
With the suspension set for my weight, tyres in good nick and properly inflated and a relaxed flexible grip on the bars I have found the Tracer to offer stability at any speed I have yet tried.  If you're still not happy with the stability, fit a steering damper as many sportsbike riders have.  To my mind postulating that the bike is fundamentally flawed or dangerous and should be fixed by Yamaha or by changing bearings and other bits is simply nonsense.
 
CS

[jo1000]

The "science" is blindingly simple. When you're riding at speed you upper body and arms are like great big sails catching the wind. If the wind is a little turbulent, your arms are not bent and relaxed and you're holding the bars a little too tightly then the turbulent air will result in you yourself continuously making small steering inputs. This is what gets the wobble going. If at that point you relax your arms and loosely grip the bars then the wobble will almost certainly dissipate.
 
 
Nope I don't ride with my arms locked and have a death grip on the bars. This statement is false , I ride with a loose grip and relaxed arms and I still encountered the wobble, but you might be right about wind causing it , like I stated before I suspect the handguards . It might be the fairing as well or the windscreen or a combination of all three, I really don't know. Maybe yamaha's way of dealing with this flaw was to put the limiter on the bike , I'm guessing here. I just know no matter how you hold the bars the bike is going to wobble left to right at speeds over 105. I don't normally ride like that with this machine so I really don't care. When I have a need for speed I  take my Suzuki to the track.

[captainscarlet]

Nope I don't ride with my arms locked and have a death grip on the bars. This statement is false , I ride with a loose grip and relaxed arms and I still encountered the wobble, but you might be right about wind causing it , like I stated before I suspect the handguards . It might be the fairing as well or the windscreen or a combination of all three, I really don't know. Maybe yamaha's way of dealing with this flaw was to put the limiter on the bike , I'm guessing here. I just know no matter how you hold the bars the bike is going to wobble left to right at speeds over 105. I don't normally ride like that with this machine so I really don't care. When I have a need for speed I  take my Suzuki to the track.

Looks like we're going to do this to death. 
I didn't say *you* ride with arms locked and a death grip on the bars so it is your statement that is false.  What I said was if one doesn't have a suitable, damping hold on the bars then wind turbulence will cause one to make small steering inputs which at speed result in a wobble.  As you rightly point out this turbulence can be caused by a number of things however the turbulence in itself, regardless of source, does not act directly on the steering.
 
Why do you persist in calling it a flaw?  If the bike was flawed as you state then all FJ-09/Tracers would wobble at speeds over 105mph; they don't.  There is no limiter on Euro spec bikes and I and many others on this forum have ridden at speeds in excess of 105mph without experiencing a wobble.
 
Like I said in a previous post we'll have to agree to disagree but it is my very strong opinion (if you hadn't realised by now) that the bike is not fundamentally flawed or dangerous.
 
CS