HELP! Bike will not start...

[wordsmith]

Bike will not start!   Hasn’t been used for about three (3) weeks, but battery tender/ charger has been attached.   Bike was washed immediately prior to putting it away in my garage since last used, but was started and driven in without any issues after cleaning.     

•          Battery checked by shop today– pronounced good as new, fully charged, excellent cranking power.  
•          All fuses checked and OK.   
•          Plenty fuel in tank.  
•          Side-stand ignition cut-off switch moves freely in and out.
•          Engine turns over strongly, but will not fire – to my uneducated ear it sounds as if possibly no fuel and/ or no spark.  

Handbook does not show me if any ‘error codes’ are able to be read by me.

Bike is 2019 GT @ 7200km.

Do hope this doesn’t mean a trip to a dealership!

Any helpful thoughts and suggestions will be gratefully taken on board.   TIA…

[norcal616]

Clutch switch, is bike in N, tilt sensor...maybe key is not fully turned?

[roadrash83]

 Do you hear the fuel pump running?

[wordsmith]

Norcal - clutch switch - que?.   Bike def in N.   Tilt sensor - que?.   Key def fully turned as all lights, dash come on.

 

rr83 - not sure if I can, as I'm not necessarily familiar with that partic sound/ noise.   Will check...

 

BOTH - thanks...

[skipperT]

Wordsmith - put your ear near or on the gas tank as you turn the main switch key to “on”. *Make sure the start/run/off switch on the RH handlebar is in “on” before doing this*. The fuel pump will make a “beayhhrrrrr”/whine/whoosh sound for 4 seconds when key is turned on, and then it will be quiet. Note that this is a different sound then the “open/close” sound the throttle bodies make. 

if you don’t hear this sound, or need further clarification, let us know. 

-Skip
 

 

[skipperT]

Clutch switch and Bank angle /tip over sensor are both good ideas, however the clutch switch only comes into play if the side stand is down, or the bike is in gear when the start button is pressed. Bank angle sensor should throw a code. It is also responsible for providing power (via a ground IIRC) to the Fuel pump relay, so if it’s not operating properly the pump won’t run.  
 

-S

[wordsmith]

Thanks, skipperT.   The pump sound you note is clearly there - a deep-ish whirring sound - and I recall it as the sound typically heard on normal start-up, tho' not necessarily taken much notice of!    It would, from this rough analysis, suggest, tho' not definitely prove, that the fuel pump is OK.   Countering that thought, however, is the observation that even tho' the starter clearly engages and the motor turns over vigorously, there's no sense of unburnt fuel being ejected from the zorst.   Or am I over-thinking it?   

A note: I put the RHS stop/ start switch to the middle detent position when trying this.   Pic below...

As for codes - I have never seen any codes (I assume appearing on the display screen) on any of the Tracers I've owned: don't know how to access them (if installed): and the Manual is no help.  But thank you again as this may be helping me to pin-down possible issues.   

I definitely don't want to have to go to a dealership to have this fixed, even tho' it may well be a warranty claim, but it sounds as if I'll have to.   I don't have much faith in the local dealers, and frankly don't trust one or two of them from past experiences.   But I may have to bite the bullet.   It's gonna be a long push - about 65km!

Thank you again for your thoughts - keep 'em coming.

Edited November 16, 2019 by wordsmith

[StealthAu]

If it is turning over but not firing, open the throttle a little while trying to start it. 

[skipperT]

1 hour ago, StealthAu said:

If it is turning over but not firing, open the throttle a little while trying to start it. 

Great suggestion, stealthau.

wordsmith: no problem, happy to help. and yes, that’s exactly the switch position I was talking about.  I would try stealth’s tip next, crack the throttle just a bit and try cranking for around 5-8 seconds. If the engine doesn’t “hiccup” and try to start, then take a break from cranking over the engine and try this next: Turn the key off, pause, then back on. Hold the throttle Wide Open and attempt to start again. This time go a bit longer than 5-8 try 8-12 seconds. If it doesn’t sputter to life and/or attempt to run then it is probably time to check the spark plugs.

note that sometimes the engine speed will gradually start to increase and it may suddenly roar to life as you’re pressing the start buttons, so be ready to close the throttle almost all the way very quickly. Basically as it begins to catch, you want to be giving it enough gas to run it at a fast idle but not rev it to the moon. 

good luck. The reason for the part throttle and wot suggestions is to try to get some of that unburned fuel out of the cyl’s and allow the spark plugs to fire. (current guess for the no start is the plugs are partly fouled.) starting the bike and moving it to the garage and then turning it off again without a proper warm up can foul plugs like that, and no it wouldn’t be a warranty repair.  Dealership might do you a solid though, you never know  

course it's not running yet either, so obviously can’t rule out that something else isn’t going on - but best to start with the simple stuff.  

-Skip

Edited November 16, 2019 by skipperT
Time correction

[wordsmith]

Stealthy - thanks, mate - I have tried that, but will give it another go or three using Skip's suggestion!   Was just talking to my wife about it - and had to say that in all the years I've been riding and all the bikes I've owned this is the first such 'major' keeping-me-off-the-road occurrence!   And I was so keen to get out today to trial that new seat...

Skip - again, thanks mate.   I did as you suggested, holding the throttle wide open and exactly what you'd warned happened: it caught and revved right up before I could close the throttle!   Aaaarrrggggggghhhhhhhh!   And bugger!!  But after a few seconds anxious wait I tried again and it started up - I caught it this time and allowed it to fast-idle before backing-off.

I allowed the coolant temp to get to around 70C before switching-off (which took just a minute or so as it's pretty hot here at the moment): and two or three more starts were immediate and successful.   You, Sir, are a gem!

I'll try to get out tomorrow on the seat-proving circuit, but won't put all the ATTGATT gear on before starting the bike!

Thanks everyone - that was an anxious few hours. 

LATER EDIT: the point that skipperT makes about moving the bike into the garage immediately after cleaning it, and switching-off without a decent warm-up, is a very good one.   Normally, after cleaning the bike I'll take it for a very brisk few kilometres to allow all the water to be blown off, but being pretty tired and sore after my long trip, just completed, I took a rain-check.   Never again!

And - just to explain myself a bit further - I wouldn't have expected a warranty job if I'd had to go to a dealership to fix the problem if indeed they'd found only fouled plugs, but if the fuel pump (or any other vital part) had died on me I'd certainly have made a warranty claim.   Happily - not necessary.   An early and very welcome Christmas gift...

Wordsmith - with a few extra grey (gray) hairs...

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by wordsmith

[StealthAu]

53 minutes ago, skipperT said:

Great suggestion, stealthau.

wordsmith: no problem, happy to help. and yes, that’s exactly the switch position I was talking about.  I would try stealth’s tip next, crack the throttle just a bit and try cranking for around 8-10 seconds. If the engine doesn’t “hiccup” and try to start, then take a break from cranking over the engine and try this next: Turn the key off, pause, then back on. Hold the throttle Wide Open and attempt to start again. This time go a bit longer than 5-10, try 10-20 seconds. If it doesn’t sputter to life and/or attempt to run then it is probably time to check the spark plugs.

note that sometimes the engine speed will gradually start to increase and it may suddenly roar to life as you’re pressing the start buttons, so be ready to close the throttle almost all the way very quickly. Basically as it begins to catch, you want to be giving it enough gas to run it at a fast idle but not rev it to the moon. 

good luck. The reason for the part throttle and wot suggestions is to try to get some of that unburned fuel out of the cyl’s and allow the spark plugs to fire. (current guess for the no start is the plugs are partly fouled.) starting the bike and moving it to the garage and then turning it off again without a proper warm up can foul plugs like that, and no it wouldn’t be a warranty repair.  Dealership might do you a solid though, you never know  

course it's not running yet either, so obviously can’t rule out that something else isn’t going on - but best to start with the simple stuff.  

-Skip

You're trying to help mate, but suggesting cranking it for 10-20 seconds isn't a great idea. 

They aren't designed to be engaged for that long, they generate a lot of heat. Problems can occur as a result. 

Best to keep it under 5 second blasts with 5 seconds or so in between to dissipate heat. 

 

If it doesn't fire basically instantly with a little throttle, gently roll the throttle open while holding the starter. This is a process that'll take a couple seconds, throttle will be less than 1/4 open before it fires. If it doesn't fire up with this method within 5 seconds, turn it off for 5 seconds and try again. 

If it still doesn't fire up, trailer to the shop. 

 

[skipperT]

5 minutes ago, StealthAu said:

You're trying to help mate, but suggesting cranking it for 10-20 seconds isn't a great idea. 

They aren't designed to be engaged for that long, they generate a lot of heat. Problems can occur as a result. 

Best to keep it under 5 second blasts with 5 seconds or so in between to dissipate heat. 

 

If it doesn't fire basically instantly with a little throttle, gently roll the throttle open while holding the starter. This is a process that'll take a couple seconds, throttle will be less than 1/4 open before it fires. If it doesn't fire up with this method within 5 seconds, turn it off for 5 seconds and try again. 

If it still doesn't fire up, trailer to the shop. 

 

Yeah, ok - 20 might be a bit long. TBH I haven’t set there and counted while attempting to start a flooded bike, I do it by feel. I was attempting to give guidance to WS, who has apparently succeeded. i disagree with your statement of 5 seconds being enough, because quite honestly sometimes 5 seconds just isn’t enough, BTDT. Usually the battery will get weak before the starter motor goes up in smoke, seen that before too. I also don’t agree 100% with your “1/4 open and go 5 seconds and then pause and try for 5 seconds again” description since we’re getting all technical here... but I’ll let it slide rather then correct. 
 

In summary, let’s just say there are multiple ways and techniques to get a flooded bike started. What works, works. YMMV. 

-S

[skipperT]

Glad you got her running Wordsmith!

-S

[StealthAu]

56 minutes ago, skipperT said:

Yeah, ok - 20 might be a bit long. TBH I haven’t set there and counted while attempting to start a flooded bike, I do it by feel. I was attempting to give guidance to WS, who has apparently succeeded. i disagree with your statement of 5 seconds being enough, because quite honestly sometimes 5 seconds just isn’t enough, BTDT. Usually the battery will get weak before the starter motor goes up in smoke, seen that before too. I also don’t agree 100% with your “1/4 open and go 5 seconds and then pause and try for 5 seconds again” description since we’re getting all technical here... but I’ll let it slide rather then correct. 
 

In summary, let’s just say there are multiple ways and techniques to get a flooded bike started. What works, works. YMMV. 

-S

Not holding it at 1/4. open it a crack, hit the crank and if it doesn't fire, roll it on. What I was implying is that it will typically fire before the throttle is at 1/4 open. Not saying to stop at 1/4 if it doesn't fire, just minimise the time on the starter. 

There will be a note in the owners manual referencing not to run the starter extensively. Typically it'll say 8-10 seconds, I say 5 erring on the side of caution.

I've bought cheap bikes in past where the plugs fowling inevitably ended with seized startors. I'm sure it takes a lot of abuse to get there, still, play it safe. 

[Dodgy Knees]

Good result gents..Wordy, Pet dryer for Xmas.  🎅