How much brake fluid required when changing lines?

[dazzler24]

A couple of quick questions for the experienced out there if I may.

When changing out the OEM brake lines for new lines, how much new brake fluid has been found to be required?

My proposed process was to use the tool to suck out the reservoirs first and then use the tool on the caliper nipples to suck out the lines and the ABS in the process (I assume?).

This will hopefully minimise the risk of brake fluid leakage when unbolting the OEM lines.

Can anyone see any 'holes' in this process?  Air in the ABS that can't be removed for example?

On a related note - Is there any way to be able to actuate the ABS (in the garage) on the 2015 Tracer without the use of the Yamaha diagnostic tool?  I've seen a few videos of FJRs, Teneres among other Yamahas being done with the jumper wire in the diagnostic port but nothing for the 2015 Tracers/FJ09.  Has anyone actually cracked access to the CAN diagnostic port at all?

TIA

[carey]

It's been a few years since I changed my lines, but I believe I only needed a small bottle of brake fluid and had some left.  I bled the system as if there was no ABS and got firm levers.  I drove around the block, a low speed, and activated the ABS.  There was no changes.  I bled some more for good measure and called it done.

[betoney]

59 minutes ago, dazzler24 said:

A couple of quick questions for the experienced out there if I may.

When changing out the OEM brake lines for new lines, how much new brake fluid has been found to be required?

My proposed process was to use the tool to suck out the reservoirs first and then use the tool on the caliper nipples to suck out the lines and the ABS in the process (I assume?).

This will hopefully minimise the risk of brake fluid leakage when unbolting the OEM lines.

Can anyone see any 'holes' in this process?  Air in the ABS that can't be removed for example?

On a related note - Is there any way to be able to actuate the ABS (in the garage) on the 2015 Tracer without the use of the Yamaha diagnostic tool?  I've see a few videos of FJRs, Teneres among other Yamahas being done with the jumper wire in the diagnostic port but nothing for the 2015 Tracers/FJ09.  Has anyone actually cracked access to the CAN diagnostic port at all?

TIA

I bought a smaller bottle 8oz. (250ml) and still have some left over.

You shouldn't need to individually drain both the reservoirs and the calipers, if you drain from the calipers it will automatically empty the reservoirs, just like flushing the fluid.

When you get everything back together, you will need to suck fluid through the system with a pump like a Mity-Vac and then bleed out air like your normally would.  And then like @carey suggested above, ride on soft ground and activate the ABS front and back a few times and then bleed it again.

[roadrash83]

I used less than 8oz but could not get the abs pump to activate to my liking. Took the bike up to the dealer to activate the pump, they did it twice and bled the system each time to get all the old fluid from the pump out of the system. they charged me for another bottle. I don't think you can using a vacuum bleeder to remove the old fluid from the pump with out activating the abs.

[2and3cylinders]

Now maybe it was the 2015 (of 14?) Yamaha R1 Brembo radial front brake master cylinder in conjunction with the Spiegler lines that made firming up the front lever so difficult despite using a vacuum bleeder and ensuring the bleed nipple threads were sealing (and I also kept a elastic band on the lever overnight) but now I realize I never activated the ABS during or after the process.  In fact I'm not sure it's even triggered since.  I've always had difficulty kicking in the ABS and the TC for that matter (I'm very smooth on the brakes and throttle and rely on counter steering and body counter weighting, corner speed and trail braking on the street and not ridden the FJ get on a track where rapid hard braking is more appropriate).  The lever now is OK (so presumably the air worked it's way up and out) and now the radial MC, lines and 320 mm R1 rotors with the EBC HH+ pads provide good feel and initial bite with probably 30% more power but especially more feel with a bit more lever travel; which is what I was working to get.  Is says to through at least 12 ounces of Valvoline synthetic DOT 3/4 brake fluid but I'm anal in my flush-bleed procedure.

[dazzler24]

Thanks all for your comments.

I'm now in the throes of doing a seven line install and have come up against the PITA hard line/union disassembly.

I've sent coachluciano a PM asking for his help on removing these as he mentioned he had some notes a while ago on a 'how to do'

Tell me, are the nuts on the hard-line side 10mm or 3/8"?  It's a Japanese bike so surely metric.

They feel too small for 10mm but too big for 9mm??  Think I'm going to have to get a flare spanner (line wrench) for their removal but what size - 10mm or 3/8"?

Anyone care to chime in with tips and tricks on how to get at the bloody things easily?

TIA

[betoney]

@dazzler24 - Does the new 7-line kit reuse those mounting blocks or does it come with new ones?  From the photos you had posted it looks like the new lines have some sort of square block on them.  If that is the case you can cut the old line off and throw it away instead of disassembling each piece. 

[texscottyd]

4 minutes ago, betoney said:

@dazzler24 - Does the new 7-line kit reuse those mounting blocks or does it come with new ones?  From the photos you had posted it looks like the new lines have some sort of square block on them.  If that is the case you can cut the old line off and throw it away instead of disassembling each piece. 

I wondered about that, too.   I’m guessing that the hard lines have a threaded end that screws into the junction block, so that would be the side to be removed & reinstalled?   The new lines replace the rubber and the junction hardware...   

It seems an odd factory setup to me, actually.  I would love to know the rationale behind Yamaha’s design (tradeoffs of engineering, cost, liability, assembly efficiency, etc...) 

Oh, and good luck @dazzler24!   Sorry, but I can’t help you with this one.  

 

[wordsmith]

Colour me ignorant on this topic - but what does 5-lines and 7-lines mean?   Of cocaine? - surely not, Dazz!

Edited April 24, 2020 by wordsmith

[betoney]

@wordsmith - The factory brake lines between either the caliper and the ABS pump or the master cylinder and ABS pump are rubber coated lines that mate into a junction block where they turn into a steel hard line.  The aftermarket (most) kits eliminate the junction block and the 2 different types of lines and replace it with a one piece line from one end to the other. 

5-line kit: 1-ABS pump to rear caliper, 2-ABS pump to rear master cylinder, 3-ABS pump to front left caliper, 4-ABS pump to front master cylinder and 5-cross over line from left to right caliper.  Apparently there are some kits that use a 7-line configuration, once @dazzler24 reads through his instructions I'm sure he will chime in here and inform us all on what the difference is.

[dazzler24]

7 hours ago, wordsmith said:

Colour me ignorant on this topic - but what does 5-lines and 7-lines mean?   Of cocaine - surely not, Dazz!

@wordsmith - No, but after starting this job I'm thinking of giving it a crack - pun intended.

[dazzler24]

7 hours ago, betoney said:

@dazzler24 - Does the new 7-line kit reuse those mounting blocks or does it come with new ones?  From the photos you had posted it looks like the new lines have some sort of square block on them.  If that is the case you can cut the old line off and throw it away instead of disassembling each piece. 

The new ones have their own mounting block BUT reuse the hard lines and that's the part that is difficult to access/disassemble and that's where my questions lie.  How to easily access those hard to reach 10mm or 3/8" nut on the hard line.

I'm was thinking (at about 2AM) that I might try to release the mounting block mountings at both ends so that I can move them backwards and forwards to get better access to the nuts on the hard lines. This is for the section between the ABS unit and the front lines.

In retrospect, the 5-line option is a better choice.

Anyway I'm off to teach some more tools bad language.

[dazzler24]

7 hours ago, texscottyd said:

I wondered about that, too.   I’m guessing that the hard lines have a threaded end that screws into the junction block, so that would be the side to be removed & reinstalled?   The new lines replace the rubber and the junction hardware...   

It seems an odd factory setup to me, actually.  I would love to know the rationale behind Yamaha’s design (tradeoffs of engineering, cost, liability, assembly efficiency, etc...) 

Oh, and good luck @dazzler24!   Sorry, but I can’t help you with this one.  

 

Correct assumption @texscottyd on the way the hard lines interface.

[betoney]

1 hour ago, dazzler24 said:

The new ones have their own mounting block BUT reuse the hard lines and that's the part that is difficult to access/disassemble and that's where my questions lie.  How to easily access those hard to reach 10mm or 3/8" nut on the hard line.

I'm was thinking (at about 2AM) that I might try to release the mounting block mountings at both ends so that I can move them backwards and forwards to get better access to the nuts on the hard lines. This is for the section between the ABS unit and the front lines.

In retrospect, the 5-line option is a better choice.

It sounds like the 7-line option could be a pain in the ass!   The mounting blocks remove from the frame or bracket, once loose it 'might' move enough to get a line wrench in there. 

Fortunately with the 5-line setup, 100% of the old system, (rubber lines, mount blocks and hard lines) all went in the trash, so I just cut it all out since I didn't have to worry about reusing any of it.

[2and3cylinders]

I installed the Speigler 5-line kit which went pretty well with their detailed instructions with color photos.  I cut the old hard lines out, which greatly simplified the process and minimized scratching the frame. Why have 7 lines with the junction block and OEM hard lines to boot?  Sorry for you but more connections = more work and places to leak...