Tracer geometry in relation to suspension upgrade

[chitown]

Wouldn't hesitate to call Traxxion (and other vendors) and have a discussion, get another opinion, etc. Over 15 years they've helped me assess options and set up several street and track bikes without buying a thing. 

Also suggest watching "Suspension For Mortals", a series of videos on youtube by Max from Traxxion. 

[petshark]

2 hours ago, chitown said:

Wouldn't hesitate to call Traxxion (and other vendors) and have a discussion, get another opinion, etc. Over 15 years they've helped me assess options and set up several street and track bikes without buying a thing. 

Also suggest watching "Suspension For Mortals", a series of videos on youtube by Max from Traxxion. 

I started watching those videos but forgot about them. Thanks for reminding me.

I would call them but I'm in Belgium so that's probably stretching it a bit to get free information. I have reached out to some local tuners though, not about the validity of the current setup but to see what options I have for upgrades.

[kilo3]

3 hours ago, chitown said:

Also suggest watching "Suspension For Mortals", a series of videos on youtube by Max from Traxxion. 

Very good video series! I am learned.

I'd love to see a video comparing stock suspension internals to aftermarket. That's still magic to me.

[Tripletrouble]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:24 AM, petshark said:

The Tracer from the factory has too much of this weight on the rear wheel causing the front to feel light

Not sure about that. . Have you considered this. For me, the stock rear spring is too soft. This means it squats down on the back when it accelerates. THIS makes the front feel light and a bit crap. We are all different, budget stock suspension can’t cover everybody’s weight and riding style. I fitted a Nitron shock with stiffer spring for my weight. Now the front doesn’t feel light, and no geometry change.  So measure your sag, see where you are. If preload is wound all the way down, you are under-sprung.  Your tech has given you what he thinks is best for your stock, but your stock might be outside it’s capabilities. With the Tracer, you have little weight on the bars, also making the front feel light. Turn the risers around, this will put a tad more weight on bars, which I prefer. Or buy a kawa 1000sx. 

[petshark]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:33 PM, Tripletrouble said:

Not sure about that. . Have you considered this. For me, the stock rear spring is too soft. This means it squats down on the back when it accelerates. THIS makes the front feel light and a bit crap. We are all different, budget stock suspension can’t cover everybody’s weight and riding style. I fitted a Nitron shock with stiffer spring for my weight. Now the front doesn’t feel light, and no geometry change.  So measure your sag, see where you are. If preload is wound all the way down, you are under-sprung.  Your tech has given you what he thinks is best for your stock, but your stock might be outside it’s capabilities. With the Tracer, you have little weight on the bars, also making the front feel light. Turn the risers around, this will put a tad more weight on bars, which I prefer. Or buy a kawa 1000sx. 

I have Ohlins incoming and will get them set up by a specialist who does loads of Tracers. We did not go for the Wilbers 15 mm raise in the back so I agree with you. I have to say that lowering the front 15mm has not given me any negative effects though, the bike still feels very balanced so there must be something to this geometry thing. I'm very excited to see how it will compare with the new setup/Ohlins and will surely post about it.

[Tripletrouble]

44 minutes ago, petshark said:

I have to say that lowering the front 15mm has not given me any negative effects though,

Excellent. You’ve got the whole point. You can get geometry advice from your tech, but, it’s how it feels to you. Don’t be afraid to experiment. Your best tools for this are a pen and paper. Write down all your settings, then you can mess about a bit knowing you can go back to base. There are some good YouTube vids by Dave Moss on suspension, but you can end up with a headache from all the info 🧠🔨  Dropping forks as you have, should make the bike a bit more twitchy, (less rake) as will raising rear. Think the ohlins shock will help stabilise the bike more anyhoo. 🤞

[PhotoAl]

I'm no expert but think you are the 1st I've heard going 15mm drop in the front.  Seems like most drop 10mm or less.  I did 7mm and it certainly improved it.  Longer swingarm in the Tracer GT also would make it a little less sensitive to changes from dropping the head.  In case you are wondering how I arrived at 7mm, LOL that was where the first landed when I was adjusting them so made the other side match and it felt good so I left it.  My very scientific methodology!

[duckie]

FWIW, 

Back when I was racing, I was talking to a old school racer about making the bike turn quicker.  

His reply.......want the bike to turn quicker....push the bars quicker......ie faster steering input. 

I am running my forks at the stock height. The biggest improvement for turn in was putting road 5s on the bike. Front tire profile and tire pressure play a big role in turn in. 

Im running totally stock suspension, weighing bout 200lbs and I have no issues with handling. And I ride pretty damn hard at times. 

Sometimes it is the rider that needs to change......

[duckie]

Oh.......good suspension components will not cure bad suspension settings......

Suspension movement is dynamic when riding not static. The static settings are to get a the suspension  in the general area of use. 

You need to understand the dynamics of what is happening when a wheel hits a bump or extends in a hole, plus when going over a series of bumps and dips.

I took a year playing with suspension settings before I made the decision on upgrading suspension stuff. That time payed off. Ive found settings that work well for all the different types of road surfaces I encounter and my riding style.

Point is, even with upgraded suspension, you still got to play with the settings to get the most out of the upgrade.

The real pisser is the stock shock is not rebuildable Suspension oil degradation over time is one of those little overlooked things. 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by duckie