Roughness and noise at low throttle openings

[bwringer]

Along with the normal cacophony emitted by the CP3 engine, which I'm happy to ignore, my 2015 FL-09 is making a noise and producing a "feel" that I don't like.

At 30-40 mph, with the throttle just barely cracked open, I can feel an extra vibration, and there's a chattery sort of noise. Throttle off and coasting, no noise. Throttle open and accelerating, no noise. Usual RPM is about 3,000 - 3,500.

The clutch works normally and doesn't slip. It's a little more difficult to get a perfectly smooth takeoff than on other bikes, but I dunno if that's normal or what.

It's very hard to describe and thus hard to Google.

I've found a few references that seem similar, and about something involving clutch springs here and there.

This thread from those other guys discusses replacing some rubber dampers in the clutch basket:

Yamaha FZ/MT 09 clutch buzz/noise/vibrations. How I repair it. | Yamaha FZ-09 Forum

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...

There are also some odd references here and there about replacing the clutch basket. With what? Aftermarket? OEM? Later model OEM?

Thanks!

[1moreroad]

Chain tension?

CCT or valves?

[bwringer]

1 hour ago, 1moreroad said:

Chain tension?

CCT or valves?

Nope, nope, and nope.

Chain tension set correctly (looser than the manual wants) and yes, the chain makes the normal noise, but it's a different noise than what I'm describing.

The CCT was recently replaced with an APE manual version. No change in sound (original was still working fine but replaced out of caution).

I did valve clearances about 3,000 miles ago, right after I got the bike. All 12 shims were changed, TBs synced, no change in engine or clutch sound before or after.

[kilo3]

Clutch basket bushings.

[bwringer]

5 minutes ago, kilo3 said:

Clutch basket bushings.

Yeah, in rummaging through posts on other bikes with this engine in various varieties of English and other languages, it looks like there are some rubber bushings in there that get squishy.

A new one is $240, and there are some brave souls who talk of replacing the bushings.

Edited June 8, 2021 by bwringer

[kilo3]

2 hours ago, bwringer said:

A new one is $240, and there are some brave souls who talk of replacing the bushings.

I already bought the bushings, just waiting for this winter.

[jeff400650]

My 2015 has a sort of a sputtering engine character when at that same barely open, steady throttle. It kinda bugs me, but does not really alter its function. Has been consistent for all of its 35,000 miles.

[Daithi]

I have a similar problem, there a small ticking/vibration when in neutral and cluch out, and when l pull cluch in it stops, would this be the rubber dampers worn out, its 2015 with 18000 miles

[bwringer]

3 hours ago, Daithi said:

I have a similar problem, there a small ticking/vibration when in neutral and cluch out, and when l pull cluch in it stops, would this be the rubber dampers worn out, its 2015 with 18000 miles

That's a separate issue, and it is indeed extremely common on the FJ (maybe universal) and lots of other bikes make varying degrees of weird noises running in neutral with the clutch out.

The good news is that this is generally annoying but harmless.

My FJ-09 (26,000+ miles) does that as well, but I'm not very concerned about it.

 

What I'm talking about is what it feels and sounds like in motion at very small throttle openings with the clutch engaged (clutch lever out).

With the throttle closed and decelerating, there's no unusual noise or vibration.

With the throttle open (such as when I'm accelerating, going up a hill, or maintaining speed over about 40mph) more than about 5% or so, there's no unusual noise or vibration.

But in that middle zone where I'm using very little power, for example, 30-35mph in third gear, there's a weird vibration and an unpleasant noise. It's been exactly the same the whole 3,000-ish miles I've ridden the bike, and there's no evidence that it's harmful or getting worse.

But I don't like it at all.

 

It does appear that both issues are related to and made worse by worn rubber dampers. I don't think the noise at idle ever goes away completely, but from the reports it's much improved with new rubbers.

It's very hard to describe this issue in words, but I am pretty sure others have described the same thing in bikes with the same engine and improved it with new clutch damper rubbers.

 

Also, it looks like an updated clutch basket part number is listed for my bike, but when I tried to order one it's on backorder for an unknown amount of time.

Primary Driven Gear Comp
Original Part Number:1RC-16150-00-00
New Part Number: B7N-16150-00-00

As it turns out, this new part number is used in the 2021 MT-09 and Tracer. So it seems likely that it's an improved part. And we also know that the later models include improved sound deadening in the clutch cover as well.

[dazzler24]

On 6/9/2021 at 3:10 AM, bwringer said:

It's a little more difficult to get a perfectly smooth takeoff than on other bikes, but I dunno if that's normal or what.

Had you considered going to a slipper clutch?  I experienced the above which 'went away' upon the installation of said slipper.

Might fix your other reported issues at the same time?

Good luck in getting it sorted.

 

[bwringer]

6 minutes ago, dazzler24 said:

Had you considered going to a slipper clutch?  I experienced the above which 'went away' upon the installation of said slipper.

Might fix your other reported issues at the same time?

Good luck in getting it sorted.

 

 

Yeah, I've considered this as well. If it also fixed the issues, well, that would be pretty neat plus I'd get the slipper clutch all the cool kids have.

Plus I'd get to hold the clutch basket in my hand and determine how bad the cushions are. I have the equipment and skills to do the rubber cushion replacement, but I'm more interested in that updated part number... dunno.

 

Heck, Partshark is even local to me:

XSR900 Slipper Clutch for FZ-09 : Part Shark

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by bwringer

[dazzler24]

9 minutes ago, bwringer said:

 

Yeah, I've considered this as well. If it also fixed the issues, well, that would be pretty neat plus I'd get the slipper clutch all the cool kids have.

Plus I'd get to hold the clutch basket in my hand and determine how bad the cushions are. I have the equipment and skills to do the rubber cushion replacement, but I'm more interested in that updated part number... dunno.

 

Heck, Partshark is even local to me:

XSR900 Slipper Clutch for FZ-09 : Part Shark

 

Go on.... you know you want to. 🤣

 

 

[bwringer]

Partshark slipper kit ordered... will report back if and when it arrives and after I get it installed.

[2and3cylinders]

Now at 50k on my bought new in 16 fastest red 15.  Did the slip / assist prolly +30k ago just to have it.  That and the APE MCCT are the 2 best mods followed a rad guard and skid plate.  OEM heated grips, a better screen and saddle being a given.  Then a McCruise!

Good luck!

[Wintersdark]

On 6/8/2021 at 3:56 PM, bwringer said:

Yeah, in rummaging through posts on other bikes with this engine in various varieties of English and other languages, it looks like there are some rubber bushings in there that get squishy.

A new one is $240, and there are some brave souls who talk of replacing the bushings.

 

On 6/24/2021 at 10:21 AM, bwringer said:

That's a separate issue, and it is indeed extremely common on the FJ (maybe universal) and lots of other bikes make varying degrees of weird noises running in neutral with the clutch out.

The good news is that this is generally annoying but harmless.

My FJ-09 (26,000+ miles) does that as well, but I'm not very concerned about it.

 

What I'm talking about is what it feels and sounds like in motion at very small throttle openings with the clutch engaged (clutch lever out).

With the throttle closed and decelerating, there's no unusual noise or vibration.

With the throttle open (such as when I'm accelerating, going up a hill, or maintaining speed over about 40mph) more than about 5% or so, there's no unusual noise or vibration.

But in that middle zone where I'm using very little power, for example, 30-35mph in third gear, there's a weird vibration and an unpleasant noise. It's been exactly the same the whole 3,000-ish miles I've ridden the bike, and there's no evidence that it's harmful or getting worse.

But I don't like it at all.

 

It does appear that both issues are related to and made worse by worn rubber dampers. I don't think the noise at idle ever goes away completely, but from the reports it's much improved with new rubbers.

It's very hard to describe this issue in words, but I am pretty sure others have described the same thing in bikes with the same engine and improved it with new clutch damper rubbers.

 

Also, it looks like an updated clutch basket part number is listed for my bike, but when I tried to order one it's on backorder for an unknown amount of time.

Primary Driven Gear Comp
Original Part Number:1RC-16150-00-00
New Part Number: B7N-16150-00-00

As it turns out, this new part number is used in the 2021 MT-09 and Tracer. So it seems likely that it's an improved part. And we also know that the later models include improved sound deadening in the clutch cover as well.

Mine does that too, the wierd kind of low frequency vibration around 3500rpm under very minimal throttle.  It's been bothering me more lately, and I've been contemplating taking it into a shop to have them diagnose it - though I fear they'll just do the "I don't see what the problem is" thing.  It's always been there, but gotten very gradually worse over the miles.

I've heard about the clutch rubber dampers, and am sure mine are shot, so if that's related it'd make sense. You can feel it in my Tracer, particularly when cold, when you move from engine braking to throttle there's a noticable clunk unless you're really gentle.  And no, not chain slack.  It seems it just clunks slower when the bike is cold making it more noticable and things move slicker once it's warmed up so it gets mixed in with normal driveline slack.

 

Edit: I should note, mine is a 2019 Tracer GT, so it has a slipper clutch stock but still does this.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Wintersdark