Is shifting less better for this engine in any way?

[petshark]

It used to be that I enjoyed preloading the lever and getting those butter smooth shifts as often as I could. Seeing that this bike has such good torque and I already seem to have the worst mileage around (average 40 mpg) I'd kind of stay away from the high RPM's.

Ever since the ECU flash I find myself shifting less and less. For anything up to 80 km/h I might just stay in second gear. It could just be the honeymoon phase now that the engine runs so smooth! I like to hear the full RPM range more.

Anyway, it feels like I've turned the tide and everything keeps getting better and I wonder if this new style of riding is part of that. My gears were getting harder to shift but now they feel smooth. In general the bike was never happy ever since I got it but now it soars.

Could using more of the RPM range and shifting less be better for the engine? Perhaps the oil is better distributed or the teeth of the gears become smoother? Just guessing but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by petshark
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[koth442]

I'm not sure about shifting less, but it *feels* like shifting at higher RPM makes the shift(s) smoother.

[petshark]

2 hours ago, koth442 said:

I'm not sure about shifting less, but it *feels* like shifting at higher RPM makes the shift(s) smoother.

That is true but I never had issues at speed with the gears. It was getting harder to shift at low speeds. Sometimes is was even impossible to get it in neutral and I would have to move a little to get the gears in a different position for it to work.

All that seems to go away now that I’m shifting a lot less. Maybe it’s just a coincidence.

[PeterL]

3 hours ago, petshark said:

Perhaps the oil is better distributed or the teeth of the gears become smoother?

I think "oil" might be the key word here. I've found that that single factor can have a huge impact on how the clutch and transmission 'feel'. I've run either Shell Rotella (synthetic) or Mobil Delvac (dino) in my bikes forever, basically because I've found them to work well. For my last oil change on the Tracer I tried Castrol Actevo 10w-40, but that seemed to make things 'notchier' so I'll be reverting next time out. Wear-wise, after the first few thousand miles, things like the gear meshes should have achieved 95+% of their normal wear, everything past that point that isn't a critical failure should be almost imperceptible. Of course your foot might just be better calibrated than mine... 😉

[peteinpa]

Strange. I had the Actevo loved it, then just changed to Rotella because I still had a gallon lying about. It's subtle but the Actevo shifts better for me. 

I'll run the Rotella for the whole duration of my OCI but will probably stick to the Actevo from now on.

Got to keep in mind the bike keeps breaking in as the miles pile on. My shifting also got better with the recalibration of the APS I recently performed.

On the original question:  I on the other hand like both since my flash, love the low end torque AND the high end HP. I use both.

[Wintersdark]

Shifting less isn't going to be good or bad for the engine - assuming both cases involve not doing anything silly like lugging the engine.  

IMHO, the bike is MUCH more fun to ride at higher RPM.  That's a big part of why I went up a couple teeth on the rear sprocket, in fact.  You've got (much) more power on tap, and the engine sounds amazing.  Also, it's less "work".  Aside from launches, I'm *always* over 5k.  Interestingly, I haven't found this makes a significant difference in terms of fuel economy, either.  *shrugs*

 

On the flip side, I feel riding like the manual recommends (ever look at the recommended shift points in the manual?) is horrifying, keeping the bike in an RPM range where the engine feels flat and incredibly boring. 

[kilo3]

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Shifting less isn't going to be good or bad for the engine - assuming both cases involve not doing anything silly like lugging the engine.  

IMHO, the bike is MUCH more fun to ride at higher RPM.  That's a big part of why I went up a couple teeth on the rear sprocket, in fact.  You've got (much) more power on tap, and the engine sounds amazing.  Also, it's less "work".  Aside from launches, I'm *always* over 5k.  Interestingly, I haven't found this makes a significant difference in terms of fuel economy, either.  *shrugs*

 

On the flip side, I feel riding like the manual recommends (ever look at the recommended shift points in the manual?) is horrifying, keeping the bike in an RPM range where the engine feels flat and incredibly boring. 

Lol, I was trying to find that thread about the old dude who basically neutered his bike going like 17 and 40 for sprockets, it was so sad to read.

[betoney]

1 hour ago, kilo3 said:

Lol, I was trying to find that thread about the old dude who basically neutered his bike going like 17 and 40 for sprockets, it was so sad to read.

That sounds terrible.  I live in a mountainous region with lots of elevation changes, I wouldn't even be able to use anything close to that gearing without frying my clutch.  I have +2T on the rear like @Wintersdark and even with that gearing there were a few instances lately riding up McKenzie Pass in Oregon and Ebbett's Pass in California where I had to use first gear maneuvering through tight, very steep uphill switchbacks.

[2and3cylinders]

I likewise usually only get about 40 to 42 miles per gallon on my fastest red 15.

I found the CP3 motor likes the revs and it shifts better up there if your technique is right, and my massaged suspension also works better IMO.  It's almost like a 2 stroke in that regard.

I installed a slip assist clutch from a 16 XSR and also went 2 teeth up on the rear.   I haven't found keeping it in the upper 2/3 of the rev range to negatively effects mileage that much, more so speeds over 75 miles per hour kill mileage.

I also like the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic, it's JASO MA/MA2 rated and for the money probably the best you can buy.

 

 

[Wintersdark]

4 hours ago, kilo3 said:

Lol, I was trying to find that thread about the old dude who basically neutered his bike going like 17 and 40 for sprockets, it was so sad to read.

Yeah, for sure it's higher speeds not rpm for mileage, and it's a pretty substant drop around there.  

Upside is, at least here speed limits are rarely past 110kph (70ish?) and you can generally safely do 120 (75) in a 100 zone (much more common) without worry, so it works out pretty well. 

Get your zoomies on, though, and she gets real thirsty.

 

[petshark]

My 40 mpg average is without any highway riding.. well, let’s say maybe a few hundred km of the 8000 I’ve done in 2021.

The flash did not change that average so the theory stands that even though you feed the engine more fuel it also gets used more efficiently.

The screen does make a big difference. It’s a bit too early to make bold claims but on my first tank of fuel after switching screens (Puig touring to MRA Touring) I had a 46 mpg average. I was never anywhere near that number before. This is including even more spirited riding caused by the flash and screen happiness. 😎

Edited July 26, 2021 by petshark

[DR_DR3I]

Interesting anecdotes. My riding usually involves some spirited shifting and some scenic backroads cruising. I often get up to near triple-digits in 3rd and 4th, and I still manage an average of 49MPG.

My FJ has 4500ish miles, running premium fuel, stock mapping, and Castrol 4T Power in the crankcase.

[Wintersdark]

9 hours ago, DR_DR3I said:

Interesting anecdotes. My riding usually involves some spirited shifting and some scenic backroads cruising. I often get up to near triple-digits in 3rd and 4th, and I still manage an average of 49MPG.

My FJ has 4500ish miles, running premium fuel, stock mapping, and Castrol 4T Power in the crankcase.

20.5 kpl, or ~48mpg for me, according to the dash's average consumption.  Also premium fuel (which isn't going to impact mileage), stock map but booster plug, +2 teeth on the rear for higher rpm at a given speed.  Some very high speed riding, but the vast majority is <85mph, with hard acceleration and high rpms basically always.   Pretty even mix of city (but not downtown city; still holding 60-80kph/35-50mph) and highway riding. 

[2and3cylinders]

I am a continuously Amazed at the mileage you guys get

[PhotoAl]

Obviously higher RPMS make for more revolutions per mile traveled but IMO the most important part to long live is how many starts from cold and how it is run before warming up.

I still haven't figured out gas mileage but know it is affected by speed altitude, headwind or tailwind and gas.  I have seen as low as 40mpg on the interstate running the unofficial speed limit of 79 into a slight headwind and as high as over 60 mpg on E0 fuel.  I got 55+ MPG running 75 in Kansas in 105F ambient with a tailwind.