Best Windscreen that you can see over

[gerdawg]

IMO if you want to be mad at anyone you could be mad at Yamaha for not anticipating that their user base would appreciate a slightly more robust mounting point for something as important as a windshield. If your windshield broke in half and hit you in the face, by all means I'd be pissed at national cycle but I'm thinking there is some misguided blame being placed on national cycle.
 
Point in case, I have a CalSCI on my Tracer GT.....the thing bounces the hell out of the stock mount to the point that I believe there might be some type of long term damage going to happen...is that their fault, I don't think so...but more so Yamaha's fault for building such a flimsy bracket.

[vinnie]

I am not defending national cycles, why would I ? Your posts just seem to contain a few misconceptions. 'Tall' is not a measurement any more than fast is a specific speed.  Of course 'tall' will differ across brands and bikes ? They have a short, medium and tall. Looking at their specs first pic, it seems the jump between short and medium is consistent with the jump of medium and tall , isn't that what we want?
They intentionally limited the size of their tall screen ? Looks plenty high to me, as in second pic.
Actually evidence they were aware they would cause damage as they are 'significantly taller' on other bikes ? This is your evidence ? I had a quick look. The very first one I looked at, was their tall for a BMW gs , National cycles z2361, height 49.2cm . Their tall Tracer screen, n20318, 60cm ! Errrr
But heh, now you've got a friend who's 'sure ' they knew it was an issue, and you have 'actual evidence' as above, you can take them to court, and with the payout buy the screen you need.
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

Well actually, they do have target sizes for the windscreens. If you think about it, yes the lengths are irrelevant, but not the height relationship between the rider's head and the location of the top of the wind screen. For tall sport touring (FJs, Stroms, Versys), customer service will tell you that the screen should be below your eyes/line of sight.  
As much as a I don't like Yamaha, I disagree that they should have to make a stronger bracket because aftermarket manufacturer's are going to make larger windscreens. Would it make sense to do so? Yes, but National Cycle shouldn't be selling windscreens that will inevitably break oem brackets.
 
My windshield was flapping so bad in the wind that I was convinced it was necessary to fix or I would have it snap off and hit me.
 
I appreciate the condescending quotations in your response, though. If you think about it... wouldn't you expect National Cycle to do some type of fatigue testing? You don't need a friend in R&D to expect the company tests their product on the vehicle it's for. Don't reply with a "no they don't test on the designated vehicle" because I know they do. They do some pretty cool real world testing on company bikes too. My friend ended up buying one of their test bikes, once they were done with it. If he says that their testing would have indicated a break in oem brackets, then I believe it. Testing standards, in R&D where I work, test for 5 years of use and abuse of our products. Most good companies do test their products to know when they will fail.
 

[captainscarlet]

Point in case, I have a CalSCI on my Tracer GT.....the thing bounces the hell out of the stock mount to the point that I believe there might be some type of long term damage going to happen...is that their fault, I don't think so...but more so Yamaha's fault for building such a flimsy bracket.

Surely you must realise that is a ridiculous statement. Yamaha built a bracket to support the screen they made for the bike, which it does admirably. You can't hold Yamaha responsible for fitting aftermarket stuff not made/approved by them which subsequently breaks the bike. I realise there is a culture in the US that it's always somebody else's fault and they must be made to pay, but come on.
 
CS

[gerdawg]

I'm pretty sure most bikes I've ever had the pleasure of riding, none of them came with or required additional brackets as stock hardware was enough to keep things in order. Not sure how that can be considered a ridiculous request.... It's a tiny bit of forethought on the manufacturers part. Something like a windshield bracket should be overbuilt stock, not underbuilt. And for the record I'm not blaming anyone. It's a bike and things happen but blaming the windshield manufacturer for a fairly flimsy bracket is absurd no matter what continent you find yourself located on. It's really no different than the pot metal flimsy 1mm support brackets that are in the handguards.... It's a liability waiting to happen for Yamaha.

[builderbob]

Point in case, I have a CalSCI on my Tracer GT.....the thing bounces the hell out of the stock mount to the point that I believe there might be some type of long term damage going to happen...is that their fault, I don't think so...but more so Yamaha's fault for building such a flimsy bracket.

I realise there is a culture in the US that it's always somebody else's fault and they must be made to pay, but come on. 
CS

Well, not always.  I'm guessing that there are as many in other western countries that maintain that same attitude as well.  They just haven't been coddled by their legal systems. 
The difference is that many laws in the US are made by lawyers in government or those in government who may be influenced by lobbyists who may also be lawyers.  The lawyers are largely compensated by insurance payouts and lawyers actively encourage legal action to get a piece of the insurance bounty.  Laws are made to support that premise.  It's a viscous circle.  Definitely not one that I agree with.
 
It's too easy to sue in this country and insurance companies are too willing to pay.  This has contributed greatly to the victim attitude that you have pointed out.
 
Sorry for the rant.  Mods, feel free to delete if you think appropriate.

[micah2074]

Whilst it's always good to be alerted of any problems, there is nothing wrong with the screen, or the company. It works very well, and they have made a screen of high quality. The screen didn't break or stop working, so why the heck should National cycles compensate you for a Yamaha bracket breaking ? The problem is the lightweight yamaha bracket wasn't designed for a screen of that size, which is probably why yamaha don't make or recommend one. There is a huge increase in leverage on that bracket compared to the original, as there would be with any make screen of that size. However, it's highly likely the cause of the break, is that you have let the bracket rust and corode, as you can see in your pictures. Rusting metal is not particularly good at loadbearing. 

The bike was less than 12 months old at the time of those pictures. There was no rust on the bike otherwise. The rust that you see in the pictures starts from where the cracks are because that exposed, uncoated metal is highly prone to rusting. Obviously it's going to rust at that point. Have you ever seen how fast uncoated metal rusts? 
 
There's actually evidence that National Cycle was fully aware of this issue. They intentionally limited the height of the tall wind screen because any taller would cause damaged to the yamaha brackets. If you order a tall windscreen on a different bike, they are significantly taller. The tall wind screen on the FJ09 was too short for me (even in the highest adjustment position on the bike itself), while three different national cycle tall windshields for different bikes, are too tall for me in the lowest position.
 
 
In addition, my coworker/friend worked in R&D at National Cycle previously and said it was the company not doing their homework... he was sure that they were aware of an issue because of the testing that they do there. "Testing would have revealed an issue in that design before launch."
 
 
I'm sure they appreciated the nice supportive post you wrote defending them, but the windshield should have come with extra support brackets, if it was going to break the weldment on the bike.

 
Man...you have rotten luck and a lot of “friends” in the know.

[captainscarlet]

Sorry for the rant.  Mods, feel free to delete if you think appropriate.

I don't think you're ranting I think you've explained it very well and I agree with you.
 
CS

[captainscarlet]

It's a bike and things happen but blaming the windshield manufacturer for a fairly flimsy bracket is absurd no matter what continent you find yourself located on.

But that's entirely my point. The windscreen manufacturer knows, if it's done it's due diligence, exactly the strength or otherwise of the bracket it is proposing to mount it's screen to. I would liken your post to expecting Yamaha to fix your engine if you were to stick on a straight through pipe and silencer without adjusting fueling etc. and the engine goes up in smoke.
 
CS

[gerdawg]

It's a bike and things happen but blaming the windshield manufacturer for a fairly flimsy bracket is absurd no matter what continent you find yourself located on.

But that's entirely my point. The windscreen manufacturer knows, if it's done it's due diligence, exactly the strength or otherwise of the bracket it is proposing to mount it's screen to. I would liken your post to expecting Yamaha to fix your engine if you were to stick on a straight through pipe and silencer without adjusting fueling etc. and the engine goes up in smoke. 
CS

Captain, 
I understood your point and respectfully disagree with it and was offering my perspective on the matter. I believe you may be looking at the issue myopically as in my mind you're not recognizing and addressing that Yamaha does in fact offer an OEM touring windshield for this specific bike. This alone creates the assumption that Yamaha should be (and probably are) developing their stock bracket to encompass at least a few other configurations other than stock. It also creates the recognition that Yamaha understands their customer base enough to realize that a stock only option might not work for every customer and their customer base may NOT buy a bike from them if ONLY the stock short OEM screen can be used or is supported.
 
In fact, the OEM screen by Yamaha is considerably wider and longer than the stock screen shipped with the bike which undoubtedly creates much greater stress forces on the factory provided mounts. How many issues have we heard on this forum about this screen causing a problem? What about other 3rd party screens? I did some research (before I bought my GT) and this wasn't a common problem or theme. Using your own example, if Yamaha offered a similar exhaust configuration (straight pipe with silencer) and your engine blew up you better believe they should cover that damage. Coincidentally if you put your own straight pipe on the bike with silencer that was NOT Yamaha branded a precedence has already been set that it is something Yamaha (in the previous statement) has offered and should be supported.
 
Back to the larger scope, if Yamaha themselves did NOT make a touring windscreen, maybe you'd have a point, however that is not the facts as they stand today. Yamaha OEM's an aftermarket screen considerably larger than that which comes off the assembly line. An ironic point to note is many of these aftermarket OEM Yamaha screens are in fact supplied via National Cycle's product line direct to OEM. None of them come with additional bracket mounts on many of the bikes that I've owned.
 
With all of this said, quite frankly I personally don't see either the Windshield OR Yamaha bracket as being the problem. Perhaps simply put the OP just had a badly manufactured or faulty bracket? Maybe something hit his shield or caused a stress fracture at one point? I'd venture to believe if his issue was more common on this forum there would be other members up in arms over the same type of situation or experience. I'm not seeing that here in these forums or elsewhere so it's unfortunately easy to discount the OP's experience of being either the Windshield or Yamaha at this point and chalk it up to just a series of unfortunate events barring it's a common experience on these forums. Stating however that "any change" done to a bike that didn't come "factory" is clearly outside of scope however is not an accurate representation of how manufactures build and develop bikes as they themselves typically offer their own OEM configurations for customer replaceable items such as Windshields and Seats. Any manufacture that didn't at least take this into account won't last too long in this business.
 
 
 
 

[vinnie]

But that's entirely my point. The windscreen manufacturer knows, if it's done it's due diligence, exactly the strength or otherwise of the bracket it is proposing to mount it's screen to. I would liken your post to expecting Yamaha to fix your engine if you were to stick on a straight through pipe and silencer without adjusting fueling etc. and the engine goes up in smoke. 
CS

Captain, 
 
 
I understood your point and respectfully disagree with it and was offering my perspective on the matter. I believe you may be looking at the issue myopically as in my mind you're not recognizing and addressing that Yamaha does in fact offer an OEM touring windshield for this specific bike. This alone creates the assumption that Yamaha should be (and probably are) developing their stock bracket to encompass at least a few other configurations other than stock. It also creates the recognition that Yamaha understands their customer base enough to realize that a stock only option might not work for every customer and their customer base may NOT buy a bike from them if ONLY the stock short OEM screen can be used or is supported.
 
In fact, the OEM screen by Yamaha is considerably wider and longer than the stock screen shipped with the bike which undoubtedly creates much greater stress forces on the factory provided mounts. How many issues have we heard on this forum about this screen causing a problem? What about other 3rd party screens? I did some research (before I bought my GT) and this wasn't a common problem or theme. Using your own example, if Yamaha offered a similar exhaust configuration (straight pipe with silencer) and your engine blew up you better believe they should cover that damage. Coincidentally if you put your own straight pipe on the bike with silencer that was NOT Yamaha branded a precedence has already been set that it is something Yamaha (in the previous statement) has offered and should be supported.
 
Back to the larger scope, if Yamaha themselves did NOT make a touring windscreen, maybe you'd have a point, however that is not the facts as they stand today. Yamaha OEM's an aftermarket screen considerably larger than that which comes off the assembly line. An ironic point to note is many of these aftermarket OEM Yamaha screens are in fact supplied via National Cycle's product line direct to OEM. None of them come with additional bracket mounts on many of the bikes that I've owned.
 
With all of this said, quite frankly I personally don't see either the Windshield OR Yamaha bracket as being the problem. Perhaps simply put the OP just had a badly manufactured or faulty bracket? Maybe something hit his shield or caused a stress fracture at one point? I'd venture to believe if his issue was more common on this forum there would be other members up in arms over the same type of situation or experience. I'm not seeing that here in these forums or elsewhere so it's unfortunately easy to discount the OP's experience of being either the Windshield or Yamaha at this point and chalk it up to just a series of unfortunate events barring it's a common experience on these forums. Stating however that "any change" done to a bike that didn't come "factory" is clearly outside of scope however is not an accurate representation of how manufactures build and develop bikes as they themselves typically offer their own OEM configurations for customer replaceable items such as Windshields and Seats. Any manufacture that didn't at least take this into account won't last too long in this business.
 
 
 

Not sure how much you ride, but I do about 30k miles a year. I put 37,000 miles or so on that bike with the windshield. I'm not sure how many people have gotten that kind of mileage on their bikes, let alone on that specific configuration. 
If you ride as much as I do, you learn really fast what isn't going to last...whereas someone who rides under 10k miles a year (I think most riders) would take at least three years to see the wear that I see in one.
 
 

[gerdawg]

I doubt many people put that kind of mileage on their bike under normal circumstances. I know that I can easily do about 20K a year as I'll ride all year long, even in Winter. I try to ride into work as much as I can (100 miles)...about the only time I'm not on the bike is when it's raining or snowing. Sadly it's been raining non-stop out here for forever and a day. I also hold the same concern about the stock bracket but that concern would exist if I were using Yamaha's OEM touring screen which is why I'm less inclined to blame National Cycle and state that I think Yamaha could have beefed up the assembly a bit more.
 
I had the OEM Touring windshield from Yamaha and that thing bounced ALL over the place on the highway. There's really too many factors to predict how well it would hold up but I think over time you'll see more of these complaints cropping up, it just comes with the territory. Like anything though it's to be expected especially as miles start getting put on the bike. I have the GT and wonder how well the lever itself is going to hold up after a few years of use, to me it seems like a fairly cobbled together part. I guess time will tell how it pans out.

[captainscarlet]

I understood your point and respectfully disagree with it and was offering my perspective on the matter. I believe you may be looking at the issue myopically as in my mind you're not recognizing and addressing that Yamaha does in fact offer an OEM touring windshield for this specific bike. This alone creates the assumption that Yamaha should be (and probably are) developing their stock bracket to encompass at least a few other configurations other than stock. It also creates the recognition that Yamaha understands their customer base enough to realize that a stock only option might not work for every customer and their customer base may NOT buy a bike from them if ONLY the stock short OEM screen can be used or is supported. 
In fact, the OEM screen by Yamaha is considerably wider and longer than the stock screen shipped with the bike which undoubtedly creates much greater stress forces on the factory provided mounts. How many issues have we heard on this forum about this screen causing a problem?

Well I'm glad we're clear that we disagree ?. I'm not looking at this myopically but realistically. It doesn't matter that Yamaha also makes a barn door screen or straight through exhaust (which they don't). What matters is that in this case a non-Yamaha manufactured/approved item was fitted to the bike. At that point Yamaha's liability ends, whether we think it's reasonable or not. If Yamaha were to take responsibility for potential damage caused by any aftermarket kit fitted to their bikes they would have been out of business long ago.
 
The Yamaha OEM screen and presumably the barn door one, are fitted to the bikes with screws made of soft cheese. These are designed to break in the event of an accident. I suspect that they also reduce some of the load being transmitted to the bracketry holding the screen in place. Many aftermarket screen manufacturers provide steel screws with their screens and this may be a contributory factor in this case.
 
It's a shame for Vinnie but he's already moved to a V-strom after knackering his head/valves. I confess I haven't heard of other screens causing the mounts to break, but maybe I've missed those posts. So it doesn't appear to be a widespread problem.
 
CS

[koth442]

As an engineer I'm going to address the bracket breaking. There are two types of failure we might see: 1. Over stress 2. Fatigue
 
Over stress: That is the windshield is WAYYYYY too big for the mounts to support and breaks the mounts within a single ride or two. This is pretty easily designed for. Wind tunnel testing in the prototype phase would quickly show problems. Since no one is complaining of their mounts breaking within a couple rides, we can conclude Yamaha has satisfied this design requirement.
 
Fatigue: Very few materials have an infinite fatigue life. Aside from steels and some weird Magnesium alloys everything WILL eventually fail. I'll include a link to Wikipedia about Fatigue Limit below. At best, Yamaha has done some basic fatigue calculations regarding the fatigue of the mounting bracket. A fatigue analysis is very indepth. Plus driving force is air, which is fluid dynamics and very complex as well. This creates a very complex system. I'm sure they ran it through some FEA (computer) simulations, but I highly doubt they wasted time doing a full on real world fatigue analysis. Unless the bracket is steel it's not a question of "if" the bracket will fail, it's a question of "when" (see the fatigue limit link below). However that "when" should be hundreds of millions of cycles discounting manufacturing defects and lots and lots of time above 100 mph.
 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit

[gerdawg]

Cap,
 
In the good old US of A...that's simply not how it works.
 
While I'm aware you aren't fond of litigation or lawyers, in your country your per capita is about on par with the per capita of some of our smaller states like New Jersey so maybe it isn't as much of a necessity for you all as it is here in many instances for the states. While I agree that litigation in this country is most certainly abused there are MANY instances in which lawyers have worked to uphold ethics as they apply to manufacturers and their products for the general good of the consumer here.
 
Point in case, we have laws that govern the use of aftermarket parts on cars and automobiles. It's called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and it does in fact work in the manner in which you believe it could not. To further the case Yamaha who does in fact sell a barn door screen has already set a precedence that a bigger windshield is supported thus if the mounting brackets of the stock assembly were to break and the owner was still under a warranty the manufacturer could be compelled to comply with the warranty repair in this country. You may or may not like that but those are in deed the facts here. The ownership would be on Yamaha to prove that the "aftermarket" screen caused the damage to the bracket and that it would not have been incurred had the aftermarket part not been installed. I believe quite frankly that even using the stock OEM touring screen from Yamaha with the type of mileage the OP travels would yield the same results. It would be up to Yamaha to prove otherwise in a court of law. 

[captainscarlet]

Cap, 
In the good old US of A...that's simply not how it works.
 
While I'm aware you aren't fond of litigation or lawyers, in your country your per capita is about on par with the per capita of some of our smaller states like New Jersey so maybe it isn't as much of a necessity for you all as it is here in many instances for the states. While I agree that litigation in this country is most certainly abused there are MANY instances in which lawyers have worked to uphold ethics as they apply to manufacturers and their products for the general good of the consumer here.
 
Point in case, we have laws that govern the use of aftermarket parts on cars and automobiles. It's called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and it does in fact work in the manner in which you believe it could not. To further the case Yamaha who does in fact sell a barn door screen has already set a precedence that a bigger windshield is supported thus if the mounting brackets of the stock assembly were to break and the owner was still under a warranty the manufacturer could be compelled to comply with the warranty repair in this country. You may or may not like that but those are in deed the facts here. The ownership would be on Yamaha to prove that the "aftermarket" screen caused the damage to the bracket and that it would not have been incurred had the aftermarket part not been installed. I believe quite frankly that even using the stock OEM touring screen from Yamaha with the type of mileage the OP travels would yield the same results. It would be up to Yamaha to prove otherwise in a court of law. 

You know what you're right and I apologise. I've done some reading and there is a similar statute here in the EU which allows for the use of parts "of matching quality" when compared with OEM parts.  If a failure occurs it is apparently up to the OEM manufacturer to prove that the aftermarket parts were not of matching quality. 
By the way it's not that I don't like the legislation, I do very much, I was just under the impression that it didn't work the way it does.  I'm happy to be proved wrong in this case.  Glad that we kept the thread going to this point.  Sometimes it's good to have a healthy argument. 
 
CS