Many issues - revisited

[Wintersdark]

8 hours ago, skipperT said:

It may change it for the worse if you modify the gearing. The only fix is something called a Speedo Healer. 

Doing the TB sync first will be easier and less costly imho. Spark plugs should be good for at least 12k miles/19k km in my experience unless the bike has been run improperly (short run cycles without warmup, mechanical problem, etc). 

if you go the dealership route for code checking, ask them to richen the CO% a bit while they have the computer plugged in- if you haven’t flashed the ECM and haven’t changed pipe/air it can still help with the lean running at very small throttle openings. 

-Skip

I thought the (at least 2019+) speedo pickup is via the ABS sensor?  My speedo is out by the same amount after the gearing change as before - that is, by 8%.  

[dazzler24]

47 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

I thought the (at least 2019+) speedo pickup is via the ABS sensor?  My speedo is out by the same amount after the gearing change as before - that is, by 8%.  

This may be an alternative low tech solution to the Healtech option.

ABS speedo correction rings.

IIRC the Healtech is adjustable and designed to 'modify' the ABS pulse information to get a more accurate result.  It requires some wiring however while the speedo ring alternative requires spanners only.

EDIT: Price difference in this country is only ~$40AU.

[skipperT]

5 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

I thought the (at least 2019+) speedo pickup is via the ABS sensor?  My speedo is out by the same amount after the gearing change as before - that is, by 8%.  

Yes, you’re right. Specifically the rear sensor. It taps into the wiring near the ABS connector and is then programmable for however much correction you need.
I think it’s simpler than changing rings like Dazz mentioned but that’s just me.

It’s good to have options!

-S

[dazzler24]

36 minutes ago, skipperT said:

Yes, you’re right. Specifically the rear sensor. It taps into the wiring near the ABS connector and is then programmable for however much correction you need.
I think it’s simpler than changing rings like Dazz mentioned but that’s just me.

It’s good to have options!

-S

FWIW, I too favour the electronic 'fix' over the mechanical one.  As you mentioned, it's always good to know your options and hence have choices that may come down to what the individual is more comfortable working with - electricity or grease 🙂

As an aside, I have neither of these but did look into it a little while ago.  I would opt for the Healtech if I were to go down the path as it is able to be calibrated accurately and adjusted at any time of your choosing if things should change, while the rings only get the speedo 'into the ballpark' of error correction.

On top of that the price difference is bugger all so it's the electricity option that wins for me in this case.

As always YMMV

[keithu]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:36 AM, skipperT said:

It may change it for the worse if you modify the gearing. The only fix is something called a Speedo Healer. 

Tires may also have an effect. My speedometer seems to be very accurate, reading within 0-1mph of the GPS at 65mph (0-1.6km at 104kph) while running Michelin PR4s or Road 5s. Last summer I had to buy a Metzeler Sportec M7 in rural Montana due to tire damage, and the speedo was off 1-2mph while running that tire. 

I'm not trying to start a tire holy war, just suggesting an alternative reason why some of our speedometers are accurate and others are not. 

Perhaps it should also be said that GPS-reported speed isn't always 100% accurate either. 

[petshark]

 

3 hours ago, keithu said:

Tires may also have an effect. My speedometer seems to be very accurate, reading within 0-1mph of the GPS at 65mph (0-1.6km at 104kph) while running Michelin PR4s or Road 5s.

That makes total sense (I think). Every tire will have a different circumference. The ecu probably calculates speed and distance from this value that equals one rotation of the wheel (via the ABS sensor). So different tires and even tire pressure will cause this value to change. If this theory is correct that would mean that an ECU speedo "fix" either is BS or they measure the wheel with your current tire and tire pressure and change set that value in the ECU.

TBH the speedometer isn't really an issue that I want to spend money on to fix it. It would be nice to have it be correct but I'm quite used to it, it's the same as all cars and bikes I've ever had.

I was just asking because it would be a bonus and one reason more to go for the larger sprocket. So @skipperT did that sprocket cause any problems for your cruise control? I've read some reports about this, but they were probably caused by a front sprocket change.

Edited April 23, 2021 by petshark

[keithu]

I went down one tooth on my rear sprocket last year and it had zero effect on my MCCruise cruise control. I can't speak to the OEM cruise on the GT, but I don't see any reason why a sprocket change would affect CC because the speed reference comes from the ABS encoder. 

[keithu]

Other things that affect the speedometer reading: Tire wear, and what part of the tire you're currently riding on. Leaned over due a cross wind? The speedometer will read a little high. 

Speedometer precision on a motorcycle is a moving target, so to speak. 

[skipperT]

1 hour ago, petshark said:

I was just asking because it would be a bonus and one reason more to go for the larger sprocket. So @skipperT did that sprocket cause any problems for your cruise control? I've read some reports about this, but they were probably caused by a front sprocket change.

No sprocket change or cruise on my bike, Petshark. Must have been another poster(?).
 

@keithu interesting experience you had - was the tire stock size? IE not a 190/55 instead of 180/55, or 180/50 17? Cause a taller/shorter tire would cause A slightly different rotational speed (I think??)

-S

[Wintersdark]

1 hour ago, petshark said:

 

That makes total sense (I think). Every tire will have a different circumference. The ecu probably calculates speed and distance from this value that equals one rotation of the wheel (via the ABS sensor). So different tires and even tire pressure will cause this value to change. If this theory is correct that would mean that an ECU speedo "fix" either is BS or they measure the wheel with your current tire and tire pressure and change set that value in the ECU.

TBH the speedometer isn't really an issue that I want to spend money on to fix it. It would be nice to have it be correct but I'm quite used to it, it's the same as all cars and bikes I've ever had.

I was just asking because it would be a bonus and one reason more to go for the larger sprocket. So @skipperT did that sprocket cause any problems for your cruise control? I've read some reports about this, but they were probably caused by a front sprocket change.

Changing sprockets doesn't impact cruise control at all.  It doesn't matter how fast "60 kph" actually is, or "
"4500rpm", cruise control just maintains the speed/rpm that you set it at.  

Tires will definitely impact speedo calibration.  Smaller tire travels a shorter distance per revolution but the speedo won't know you've moved a shorter distance causing the speedometer to read high, and likewise a larger diameter tire will cause the bike to travel further per rotation, causing the speedometer to read lower.

Likewise, I've never felt any desire to correct the speedo.  Literally every single vehicle I've ever been in or on, car or bike, have all read 5-10% high on their speedometers.  I respect that some are actually correct, apparently, but I've never seen one.  So it's not too important to me.  I know how much mine is out if I need to know actually how fast I'm moving - and my ride mapping apps use GPS for logging, so there's that.  

I think it's a regional thing, or maybe a "gentlemans agreement" between vehicle manufacturers, to have speedos all read low.  I figure it's to allow for some +/- in tolerances and changes in tires without people ending up speeding, getting tickets, then suing.  Or maybe with governments to just slow people down a bit.  Who knows.  Maybe a little of everything.

But yeah.  It's become a game for me to compare vehicles whenever I'm in one and can see the speedometer.  I've never found one to be accurate to GPS - and GPS can be very, very accurate here, particularly when given time at a constant speed.

[keithu]

49 minutes ago, skipperT said:

 interesting experience you had - was the tire stock size? IE not a 190/55 instead of 180/55, or 180/50 17? Cause a taller/shorter tire would cause A slightly different rotational speed (I think??)

I've only run 180/55-17 tires on this bike... the original D222, a couple PR4s, the Metzeler Sportec (for only about 700 miles), and now I'm on my 2nd or 3rd Road 5. But it's not surprising that the circumference might vary slightly between different tire types, even with a common sizing standard.  

[petshark]

1 hour ago, Wintersdark said:

Changing sprockets doesn't impact cruise control at all.  It doesn't matter how fast "60 kph" actually is, or "
"4500rpm", cruise control just maintains the speed/rpm that you set it at.  

Tires will definitely impact speedo calibration.  Smaller tire travels a shorter distance per revolution but the speedo won't know you've moved a shorter distance causing the speedometer to read high, and likewise a larger diameter tire will cause the bike to travel further per rotation, causing the speedometer to read lower.

Likewise, I've never felt any desire to correct the speedo.  Literally every single vehicle I've ever been in or on, car or bike, have all read 5-10% high on their speedometers.  I respect that some are actually correct, apparently, but I've never seen one.  So it's not too important to me.  I know how much mine is out if I need to know actually how fast I'm moving - and my ride mapping apps use GPS for logging, so there's that.  

I think it's a regional thing, or maybe a "gentlemans agreement" between vehicle manufacturers, to have speedos all read low.  I figure it's to allow for some +/- in tolerances and changes in tires without people ending up speeding, getting tickets, then suing.  Or maybe with governments to just slow people down a bit.  Who knows.  Maybe a little of everything.

But yeah.  It's become a game for me to compare vehicles whenever I'm in one and can see the speedometer.  I've never found one to be accurate to GPS - and GPS can be very, very accurate here, particularly when given time at a constant speed.

I agree with everything here and rhe cruise control question was meant for you (apologies @skipperT) but I didn’t formulate it quite right;

I read some posts recently on a tracer Facebook group were someone asked if his recent sprocket size change could be the cause that his cruise control was no longer working. Someone replied that the same happened to him so that’s why I asked.

[Wintersdark]

Yeah, the other dude is just wrong.  I mean, maybe he messed up his cruise control by removing the ABS sensor on the rear wheel when changing the sprocket, or not connecting it properly, but if that's the case his ABS should be throwing a fault as well. 

But changing either sprocket on their own cannot impact cruise control or at least with regards to a Tracer 900 GT; I can't speak for FJ's with MCCruise - no idea how it works.  There's no connection between them whatsoever.

[betoney]

20 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

Yeah, the other dude is just wrong.  I mean, maybe he messed up his cruise control by removing the ABS sensor on the rear wheel when changing the sprocket, or not connecting it properly, but if that's the case his ABS should be throwing a fault as well. 

But changing either sprocket on their own cannot impact cruise control or at least with regards to a Tracer 900 GT; I can't speak for FJ's with MCCruise - no idea how it works.  There's no connection between them whatsoever.

I agree, I have the MCCruise on my 2015 FJ09 and have used stock gearing -16/45 as well as 15/45 and currently 16/47 and none of those combinations created a fault with the CC operation or affected the speedometer accuracy, it still reads 1.5-2mph higher than my GPS.

[petshark]

Ok, good to know!