Many issues - revisited

[petshark]

My fuel consumption on my 2019 GT is 39mpg, the average on the display is a little better but after keeping track when filling up I have calculated that this is the real number. I think of myself as a sporty rider but I'm never near the red-line and most of my riding is in urban environments so I'm wondering if this is normal or if this could be another clue that something is not quite right with the engine.

I'm asking because it does not run smooth by any standard. Below 5000 rpm it exhibits tiny erratic jerks, small but not subtle (to me). Another way to describe it is that it's like a miniature version of the on/off feel of a bad throttle control; the engine brakes and then shoots forward. I know I am very sensitive to these things so there is always the doubt that what I'm feeling could still be normal, especially for this rowdy 3 cyl but I honestly don't think so.. I've never obsessed over my previous bikes like this, everything just worked and felt perfectly normal. With this one it's just one thing after the other and I'm sure that it's getting worse the more that I ride it.

In the 5000 to 7000 RPM range it changes to buzzing in the chassis, and the FJR rubber footpegs don't help (almost the opposite). I know this is not abnormal but any real issues in the engine will also exaggerate this behaviour, right?

I have a carbtuner pro (thanks @Wintersdark for the tip) and new spark plugs incoming and hope that this will help. I've also started using non-ethanol fuel even though the engine is built for E5 / E10 ethanol content. Another suggestion is an ECU flash but that is only an option to me if it is proven that what I'm experiencing is indeed normal and that is the only solution. The Versys had the exact same on/off feel to it but with some practice I could be perfectly smooth on the throttle just like I can on the Tracer but that does not change the constant shudders while keeping the throttle perfectly still on a set RPM. To me the engine seems in trouble and getting worse. It has also been suggested to me that this is caused by the rubber blocks in the clutch and that Yamaha will never admit to this issue.

Just in case here's a list of things that went wrong with this bike in the 4 months that I've owned it. (Bought with 5000 miles on it and it now has almost 9000)

• Almost no brake power > fix: EBC HH pads and decontaminated rotors
• Rattling front wheel > fix: no grease in left wheel bairing
• Dragging brakes (extreme) > fix: deep clean pistons (while they did not look very dirty)
• Double hiccup in clutch lever> partly fixed by new clutch cable but it's still there. (also with stock lever and deep clean, inspection and lubing of all external parts). IMO originates inside engine/clutch.
• Turn switch and jug wheel increasingly difficult to operate. > not fixed, waiting for contact spray delivery. Need to use a lot of strength to turn right.

I don't know if anyone sees a pattern here? We have discussed pressure washers here before and I'm wondering if this could all be related to water or a de-greaser getting behind seals? If my engine is getting worse because of this, where else would I need to look?

This morning it also ran really weird for a while after starting, a sound that I never heard and it didn't sound happy. A part of me hopes that whatever is wrong is just getting to a point where the dealer can't deny it but knowing my luck with this bike it might just as well be the next issue saying hello.

I'm nowhere near giving up on it though, I've just ordered Ohlins so I need to fix these issues!

[Heli ATP]

That sucks, sorry for your issues. Can you find someone with the same year/model that you could trade for a day to see if you can find any similarities?

[skipperT]

Check Drive chain slack. The “shuddering “ you’re describing is worse on the early models. Make sure your tension is 40-45mm of free play, and the chain is lubed. Also check for a developing tight spot on the center stand while rotating the rear wheel by hand and viewing the lower “arc” of the chain hang below the swing arm. 
 

once those items are confirmed, next explanation is that you’re feeling the power pulses of the motor and fueling. ECM flash will smooth it somewhat, but confirm TB sync first. 

there is some drivetrain “shudder” /lash/vibration at various RPMS and throttle positions that you will never fully get rid of.... it’s a motorcycle. We’ve become so used to smooth automobiles that we forget we’re operating and being hurtled down the road by a high performance machine that does make noise and vibrate. 

-skip

[keithu]

+1 on skipperT's recommendations. First things I would check is chain slack and throttle body sync. Both will contribute to the issues you have. You might have other problems, but it's important to rule these things out first. 

Can you describe the sound you heard this morning? Did it continue or go away?

[RollIt]

I ride a 2016, and usually get  on/off shudder on cold engine (1st 2-3 miles) if chain slack is on extreme end of spec on either side. Fix chain slack and/or warm up engine enough and life is good.

[petshark]

6 hours ago, Heli ATP said:

That sucks, sorry for your issues. Can you find someone with the same year/model that you could trade for a day to see if you can find any similarities?

I was able to ride a demo model for 15 minutes just before it was sold. It also wasn't smooth and mine has gotten worse since then but there was a difference. It's hard to describe, I told the dealer that it feels like the parts in my engine are looser or there is more play somewhere. It wasn't a shudder yet back then, it just felt like something was off.

5 hours ago, skipperT said:

Check Drive chain slack. The “shuddering “ you’re describing is worse on the early models. Make sure your tension is 40-45mm of free play, and the chain is lubed. Also check for a developing tight spot on the center stand while rotating the rear wheel by hand and viewing the lower “arc” of the chain hang below the swing arm. 
 

 

4 hours ago, RollIt said:

I ride a 2016, and usually get  on/off shudder on cold engine (1st 2-3 miles) if chain slack is on extreme end of spec on either side. Fix chain slack and/or warm up engine enough and life is good.

I have tried to see if the chain was causing this and have to admit that if I let it get too dry it gets worse but I keep it in good condition and lube it every 500km.

The shop manual says 35 to 45 mm on the centerstand and the rule of thumb is 25 mm on the side stand so I've set mine to 35 mm on the centerstand which is the same as 25mm on the sidestand. I figured that you set it to the minimum recommended length because it will gradually get longer so you stay in the "zone" for a longer time. I know that the GT has a long swingarm and chain so the 25mm standard rule may very well be too tight. At the same time I've had a mechanic comment that it was too loose like this as well. But if you're saying that 35mm is still too tight I will try 40mm. I have checked for tight spots but haven't found any last time, will check again.

5 hours ago, keithu said:

Can you describe the sound you heard this morning? Did it continue or go away?

It went away as soon as I started riding. It sounded lower, slower and not happy. When I came back this evening it started normal again, but the shuddering was worse than ever. Luckily there were a lot of country roads so I just kept the RPM up. It's certainly worse when the engine is cold but it does not go away when it's hot.

Thanks for all the suggestions! Glad to hear that the TBS is a possible fix. Bad spark plug is less likely?

[keithu]

9 minutes ago, petshark said:

Thanks for all the suggestions! Glad to hear that the TBS is a possible fix. Bad spark plug is less likely?

You have to remove the tank to do the TB sync, might as well replace the sparkplugs while you're in there. It's not much more work. 

[Waldo Jeffers]

Following

[Garz747]

Maybe your need the dealer to put your bike on their diagnostic scanner?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Garz747

[Wintersdark]

Probably wouldn't hurt to run the yammie diagnostics just for peace of mind if nothing else.  But I'd definitely get the plugs and throttle body sync done first; the throttle bodies being out of sync can definitely cause that uneven idle / low throttle jerkiness. 

With that said, there's definitely some... disgruntlement trying to hold low rpms at low speed.  School zones are a pain in the ass.  For me, the booster plug really helped with that a whole lot, but didn't cure it completely. I've just attributed it to a fact of life with the CP3 that it doesn't like maintaining low speed.  It likes to go, and is WAY happier when at 4500+rpm.  

That was, IMHO, a big side plus to going up a pair of teeth on the rear sprocket, I'm roughly 500rpm higher at any given speed, which really helped with that. 

[PhotoAl]

I've felt like my bike on rare occasions hunts a little bit while riding.  A mode for me can be very jerky if making large throttle adjustments quickly - like off then on 3/4 then off again.  It is just enough for me to slightly notice then focus and don't feel it so go on and not worry.

In 6,000 miles I've cleaned and lubed the chain I think 3 or 4 times - ok start the flaming :-) Just did a 2,000 mile trip and forgot the chain lube!  Cleaned a lubed it a couple of days ago and it really wasn't very dirty and didn't look like it had been 2,400 miles.  It looks nice now - IMO steady long distance riding on good (not a lot of dirt and grit) roads with no rain is not hard on the chain.  Daily shorter trips, riding in the rain and on dirty roads is a lot tougher on chains.

Seems like I get a little better fuel mileage than that.  I don't do a lot of stop and go type riding so not sure how it affects mileage.  When riding on secondary roads and then thru areas with more frequent stops it seems o get mid 40's gas mileage. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by PhotoAl

[Rick123]

20 minutes ago, PhotoAl said:

I've felt like my bike on rare occasions hunts a little bit while riding.  A mode for me can be very jerky if making large throttle adjustments quickly - like off then on 3/4 then off again.  It is just enough for me to slightly notice then focus and don't feel it so go on and not worry.

In 6,000 miles I've cleaned and lubed the chain I think 3 or 4 times - ok start the flaming 🙂 Just did a 2,000 mile trip and forgot the chain lube!  Cleaned a lubed it a couple of days ago and it really wasn't very dirty and didn't look like it had been 2,400 miles.  It looks nice now - IMO steady long distance riding on good (not a lot of dirt and grit) roads with no rain is not hard on the chain.  Daily shorter trips, riding in the rain and on dirty roads is a lot tougher on chains.

Seems like I get a little better fuel mileage than that.  I don't do a lot of stop and go type riding so not sure how it affects mileage.  When riding on secondary roads and then thru areas with more frequent stops it seems o get mid 40's gas mileage. 

Flaming? Oh yes. I don’t clean the chain but lube it every 500km (300 miles) or so. On my last bike (2017 V Strom 650) before I got FJ09 I got 50 000km (31000miles) and the chain was still ok.

[petshark]

Ok, I will first check throttle body sync and replace the spark plugs while I'm at it. If that does nothing I will ask the dealer to do a diagnostic scan.

On the subject of chain tension; does anyone else have the experience that it has to be exactly 40mm (middle of shop manual specification)?

8 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

That was, IMHO, a big side plus to going up a pair of teeth on the rear sprocket, I'm roughly 500rpm higher at any given speed, which really helped with that. 

I was wondering if a better quality chain & sprockets would make a difference and this sounds like a reason to go that route. Does this mod also bring the speedometer closer to real (gps) speeds or is it just the opposite? It reads 108 when I'm really doing 100.

I haven't tried other modes to see if that makes a difference and will do that when I ride home from work this evening. I'm always in standard mode.

Edited April 22, 2021 by petshark

[skipperT]

5 hours ago, petshark said:

Ok, I will first check throttle body sync and replace the spark plugs while I'm at it. If that does nothing I will ask the dealer to do a diagnostic scan.

On the subject of chain tension; does anyone else have the experience that it has to be exactly 40mm (middle of shop manual specification)?

I was wondering if a better quality chain & sprockets would make a difference and this sounds like a reason to go that route. Does this mod also bring the speedometer closer to real (gps) speeds or is it just the opposite? It reads 108 when I'm really doing 100.

I haven't tried other modes to see if that makes a difference and will do that when I ride home from work this evening. I'm always in standard mode.

It may change it for the worse if you modify the gearing. The only fix is something called a Speedo Healer. 

Doing the TB sync first will be easier and less costly imho. Spark plugs should be good for at least 12k miles/19k km in my experience unless the bike has been run improperly (short run cycles without warmup, mechanical problem, etc). 

if you go the dealership route for code checking, ask them to richen the CO% a bit while they have the computer plugged in- if you haven’t flashed the ECM and haven’t changed pipe/air it can still help with the lean running at very small throttle openings. 

-Skip

[maximo]

I’ve often said that I really like my FJ-09, but I don’t love it. Although my own quibbles differ slightly from the OP, I also have a laundry list of little irritants than on their own are insignificant, but put together create just enough annoyance to keep me from falling deeply in love with the bike like so many of you have. I’ve already dropped over $5k on fixes (and some fixes were fantastic, turning what was essentially an un-rideable bike into an enjoyable ride), and still the bike doesn’t fit me completely. I’ve decided that I won’t spend more on it because I’ve realized that Shangri-La is always one farkle or fix away, and always will be. I’ve accepted that for me, this will always be a B+ ride. Which is a shame, really, because it’s such a good bike overall.